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21 Dead in Virginia Tech shooting
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Posts: 422 		  Quote Ovidius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 21 Dead in Virginia Tech shooting
    Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 08:46
The saddest part to me is that one of the engineering professors who died was a Holocaust survivor who died blocking the door so his students could escape.


Indeed, I felt this was quite sad. He must have been a remarkable character - living through the War, the Communist takeover of Romanian and the Ceausescu dictatorship and 70's Israel. I bet he was interesting to talk too!

I wish there was some way of working out why this sort of thing happens.



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Posts: 4221 		  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 09:59
Originally posted by gcle2003

I am of course saddened by the whole affair and happy at least for Genghis and his sister.
 
But frankly I was worried very much by the militaristic nature of the 'convocation' ceremony that was televised yesterday. These were not soldiers killed in battle, they were ordinary young people, tragically slain by a madman.
 
So why play Taps? Why the military ceremony of retiring the colours? Why so many uniforms around? 
 
A religious ceremony I can of course understand. But not all the uniforms and the flags.
 
Don't be upet about the uniforms, etc.  VPI was initially a college based somewhat on the French Ecole Polytechnique, with variations, but with a military student body.  The corps of cadets is very important there, and is certainly part of the student body.  Virginia Tech students are, I think, OK with that.
 
Those lost were their classmates and their professors as well.
 
 


Edited by pikeshot1600 - 18-Apr-2007 at 10:05
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Posts: 1775 		  Quote ok ge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 15:36
I'm not sure if you can blame social problems for the incident. Afterall, the guy was mentally ill. He just had a gun. Key word, a gun Unhappy
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Posts: 769 		  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 16:09
Your right. History is filled with murderous psychopaths. Today they have guns, yesterday, knives and swords.
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Posts: 3335 		  Quote pekau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 22:47

Good to know that you are safe, Genghis. I'd hate to post a funeral...

It's a pity that such bloodshed occured. Really, they should do something about gun regulation.
 
But I think it could have been avoided. I mean, everyone in his class knew that the villian was mentally ill. He once wrote the play consisting very violent and bloody plot. He was totally antisocial, had headphones all the time... didn't bother to reply to the teachers... and skipped several classes. He supposedly had "girl-problems", which I don't quite get. Do they have time to flirt in university? I heard that his teacher recommended his to go to guidence counseling... once again, it proves how useless guidence counseling is.
 
Someone could have reported something. I even heard that one of the classmate knew that he possessed a gun before the shooting.
 
But overall, a great tragedy. May the victims rest in peace... 
     
   
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Posts: 2656 		  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 23:28
Originally posted by pekau

Really, they should do something about gun regulation
 
I agree, they should let the sane students on my campus carry guns with them for when the psychos go crazy.  I went out and bought a handgun and mace the day after this happened, and some mace for my sister.  Earlier this year a prisoner from nearby prison escaped in the area and for a while they thought he might have been on Virginia Tech.  A lot of people wrote into our school newspaper saying that we should be allowed to have guns on campus and that that incident was an example of that.  People called them crazy and said that there was no reason to carry a gun on campus.  Well, Monday was another example. 
 
This bastard had obviously planned this thing out months in advance, and given how marijuana and other illegal things are easily purchased in the Virginia Tech area, I don't see how this guy would have been unsuccessful in getting a handgun if that is what he really wanted.
 
From this day forth, I plan on getting a concealed carry permit and carrying a handgun with me for protection.  The law of probability says I'll probably never need to use it, but the law of probability didn't save 32 of my classmates.
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Posts: 2656 		  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 23:31
Originally posted by pekau

But I think it could have been avoided. I mean, everyone in his class knew that the villian was mentally ill. He once wrote the play consisting very violent and bloody plot. He was totally antisocial, had headphones all the time... didn't bother to reply to the teachers... and skipped several classes. He supposedly had "girl-problems", which I don't quite get. Do they have time to flirt in university? I heard that his teacher recommended his to go to guidence counseling... once again, it proves how useless guidence counseling is.
 
Someone could have reported something. I even heard that one of the classmate knew that he possessed a gun before the shooting.
 
But overall, a great tragedy. May the victims rest in peace... 
 
They did pretty much everything they could have without being sued for violating his rights.
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Posts: 2200 		  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2007 at 23:48
It seems like the school is located at a really safe area, thus the initial morning shooting on campus shoot raise concerns immediately, followed by a lockdown. The school is kind of at fault in this aspect.

Glad to hear your family is safe Genghis
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Posts: 2656 		  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 00:26
I don't blame the school.  They found two bodies, a boy's and a girl's, and in 99 times out of 100, it's a spur of the moment love triangle killing.  After that had happened they also took a suspect in for questioning, and then afterwards nothing had happened and the police seemed to be handling it, and lockdown was removed.  I don't blame them and hardly anyone at Tech is either.
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Posts: 4489 		  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 01:36
Originally posted by ok ge

I'm not sure if you can blame social problems for the incident. Afterall, the guy was mentally ill. He just had a gun. Key word, a gun Unhappy
 
This guy is not the first in the US going somewhere and starting shooting everybody without a cause.
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Posts: 1564 		  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 01:38
From what I hear, in the past the shooter was reported for stalking women on two seperate occasions and brought in for questioning by the police. They refered him back to the school disiplinary board for action. This person should have been in a psychiatric hospital, not a University.
 
 


Edited by DukeC - 19-Apr-2007 at 03:53
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Posts: 1838 		  Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 03:44
Originally posted by Sparten

Genghis was the first person I thought of when I heard. Very glad you are allright.



Same here, Amen!  Thank goodness you are safe Tongue
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Posts: 1838 		  Quote poirot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 03:51
Originally posted by Genghis

Originally posted by pekau

Really, they should do something about gun regulation
 
I agree, they should let the sane students on my campus carry guns with them for when the psychos go crazy.  I went out and bought a handgun and mace the day after this happened, and some mace for my sister.  Earlier this year a prisoner from nearby prison escaped in the area and for a while they thought he might have been on Virginia Tech.  A lot of people wrote into our school newspaper saying that we should be allowed to have guns on campus and that that incident was an example of that.  People called them crazy and said that there was no reason to carry a gun on campus.  Well, Monday was another example. 
 
This bastard had obviously planned this thing out months in advance, and given how marijuana and other illegal things are easily purchased in the Virginia Tech area, I don't see how this guy would have been unsuccessful in getting a handgun if that is what he really wanted.
 
From this day forth, I plan on getting a concealed carry permit and carrying a handgun with me for protection.  The law of probability says I'll probably never need to use it, but the law of probability didn't save 32 of my classmates.


I disagree, gun ownership is not the answer.  What the school should do is teach students how to wisely act in such instances.  In instances such as this and Columbine, the aggressor is deranged; to not be victimized, realize that you must think very clearly and not over react.  The worst thing to do is show up with a gun in front of someone who is already deranged.  There were examples of Virginia Tech students quite level headedly protecting themselves and coming out unscathed and unharmed, by using their wits, not their muscles.
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Posts: 2656 		  Quote Genghis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 11:56
Originally posted by DukeC

From what I hear, in the past the shooter was reported for stalking women on two seperate occasions and brought in for questioning by the police. They refered him back to the school disiplinary board for action. This person should have been in a psychiatric hospital, not a University.
 
 
 
They can't force him into therapy if he doesn't want it.  I wonder if laws will change in the wake of this to allow the authorities to force people to undergo psychiatric therapy.
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Posts: 1230 		  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 12:40
I applaud your descision to get a concealed weapon permit, Genghis. This shooting has made me think about getting one as well. If just a few people on the campus had a concealed weapon permit perhaps there would have been fewer victims. 
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Posts: 1564 		  Quote DukeC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 13:04
Weapons have a nasty habit of harming their owners, my step-dad has a concealed weapons permit in Washington state and I think I worry more about accidental discharge than anyone attacking him. Training on how to safely handle and use a firearm, especially a handgun, is important.
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Posts: 2329 		  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 13:30

It's not the answer, in limiting attacks from armed psychopaths, to allow all people to carry arms, because then -by default- you will arm even more psychopaths. It is extremely doubtful that citizens would be able to defend themselves -even if armed- and certainly we cannot all

carry weapons everywhere we go and be responsible in using them. It's practically impossible. Rule is that if you have a gun at some point you will use it, and 99% will be for the wrong reason.

 

Banning guns entirely is a more proper approach. It is unheard in most civilized countries that a 23 year old student, without being a known criminal, would be able to possess 2 handguns!

 

The idea that one (Genghis for example) could purchase a gun at will is appalling. It is no accident that such actions occur mostly in countries where gun control is limited.
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Posts: 4262 		  Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 13:43
Indeed a tragedy - one of my students is currently on the university as an exchange student. Luckily is is safe like Genghis.
 
However, it disturbs me equally to read comments like these.... 
 
Originally posted by Genghis

From this day forth, I plan on getting a concealed carry permit and carrying a handgun with me for protection.  The law of probability says I'll probably never need to use it, but the law of probability didn't save 32 of my classmates.
 
Originally posted by Adalwolf

I applaud your descision to get a concealed weapon permit, Genghis. This shooting has made me think about getting one as well. If just a few people on the campus had a concealed weapon permit perhaps there would have been fewer victims. 
 
So you guys wants to wheel back time to the Good Old West - each man his own safety? 
No law and order - just the law of the jungle - kill or be killed?
Is that the vision you have for a future USA? 
I would have expected more refined thinking patterns from the cream of american youngsters - like you guys.
 
Don't you realise that, if the criminals can expect every civilian to carry a handgun, they will arm themselves with machineguns, and your concealed cal. 32 will have the same effect as a peagun - if you ever get a chance to use it?
But then of course, YOU will get a machinegun - right?
 
You will be escalating your already excessive gun related murder rate to astronomical figures in no time.
 
Start thinking, stop the madness and go for a strict weapon control instead.
Give your police and authorities a chance to enforce their job which already is almost impossible due to the number of weapons on the streets and in the homes.
I know the American fascination for guns, the dogme's about personal freedom and the pioneering free spirit. I know them well enough to realise this wont be easy. But its necessary.
 
But the route you are heading will contradict every move towards personal freedom.
You will end up with a nation with even more paranoia - where every citizen is more scared of the neighbor down the road, than the one up the road.
 
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Posts: 4221 		  Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 14:15
OK...this is already getting bogged down in the "cowboy-American mindset" bullsh*t.
 
Let's keep our eye on the ball.  Thirty-some academics and promising, intelligent young people will be having funerals. 
 
For anyone who doesn't like America, drop it until later please.  We hear enough of that as is.
 
 
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Posts: 1230 		  Quote Adalwolf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Apr-2007 at 14:19
Perhaps a separate thread about gun-control/ownership should be created?
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