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Iranian y chromosome

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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Iranian y chromosome
    Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 17:12
Please note the reasult of the latest study done about Iranian in:
 
 
"Iran: Tricontinental Nexus for Y-Chromosome Driven Migration.

Regueiro M, Cadenas AM, Gayden T, Underhill PA, Herrera RJ.

Due to its pivotal geographic position, present day Iran likely served as a gateway of reciprocal human movements. However, the extent to which the deserts within the Iranian plateau and the mountain ranges surrounding Persia inhibited gene flow via this corridor remains uncertain. In order to assess the magnitude of this region's role as a nexus for Africa, Asia and Europe in human migrations, high-resolution Y-chromosome analyses were performed on 150 Iranian males. Haplogroup data were subsequently compared to regional populations characterized at similar phylogenetic levels. The Iranians display considerable haplogroup diversity consistent with patterns observed in populations of the Middle East overall, reinforcing the notion of Persia as a venue for human disseminations. Admixture analyses of geographically targeted, regional populations along the latitudinal corridor spanning from Anatolia to the Indus Valley demonstrated contributions to Persia from both the east and west. However, significant differences were uncovered upon stratification of the gene donors, including higher proportions from central east and southeast Turkey as compared to Pakistan. In addition to the modulating effects of geographic obstacles, culturally mediated amalgamations consistent with the diverse spectrum of a variety of historical empires may account for the distribution of haplogroups and lineages observed. Our study of high-resolution Y-chromosome genotyping allowed for an in-depth analysis unattained in previous studies of the area, revealing important migratory and demographic events that shaped the contemporary genetic landscape."
 The reasult is very intresting showing that iranian has at least %50 genes from central asia including %18  of mongolian origin in the north.
Also Iranian have % 4 african genetic at south.
  The reasult shows thatIranians are mostly from central asian origin, could be Aryan or Turkic immigrants.
 

 
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 17:51
150 individuals from only north and south Iran is hardly representative, in other countries they make studies in the thousands.
 
To carry out this test properly, they will need to test thousands of individuals from every part of Iran and specify which tribe/ethnic group these people come from and from which region.. 37 people from N. Iran and 113 from S. Iran doesn't cut it for me, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
 


Edited by Zagros - 26-Jan-2007 at 17:53
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 20:54
Originally posted by Zagros

150 individuals from only north and south Iran is hardly representative, in other countries they make studies in the thousands.
 
To carry out this test properly, they will need to test thousands of individuals from every part of Iran and specify which tribe/ethnic group these people come from and from which region.. 37 people from N. Iran and 113 from S. Iran doesn't cut it for me, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
 
I don't want to say anything about the research itself but representative group is considered to be more than 30 individuals in any biological research. So, 150 individuals is more than enough.
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 00:59
The shape of distribution is following the histoical events like Aryans,Mongolian and Turkic immigrations to Iran. it looks like the new comers had setteled in Iran and mixed with the aboriginals.
This data could support the idea that says the Iranian identity is different from middle easterns and have something form central Asia.
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  Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 08:39
Originally posted by shinai

The reasult is very intresting showing that iranian has at least %50 genes from central asia including %18  of mongolian origin in the north.
Also Iranian have % 4 african genetic at south.
  The reasult shows thatIranians are mostly from central asian origin, could be Aryan or Turkic immigrants.

I am lost here. No matter how many times I read the article  I can not find those numbers that you mention just after the article itself  Shinai. The article does say that the samples were taken from 150 Iranians  but it does not mention south or north at all, nor does it give any specific numbers. In fact the article says ''The Iranians display considerable haplogroup diversity consistent with patterns observed in populations of the Middle East overall''. Which one should I believe Shinai? The article itself or what you wrote after it?


Edited by omshanti - 28-Jan-2007 at 09:15
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 12:01
Please consider the total percentage of central asian markers in north of Iran ( N, O, R) then compare it to the other middle easterns
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 12:40
The reason why i think it is insignificant is that Iran is  a huge country with many different ethnic groups, the north will not be the same as the west or the east, etc.. They should sample as many ethnic groups as possible from all over the country (30 of each?) and compare them rather than just randomly picking people from N and S without specifying anything else.
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  Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 18:00
Originally posted by Zagros

They should sample as many ethnic groups as possible from all over the country (30 of each?) and compare them rather than just randomly picking people from N and S without specifying anything else.
Zagros, people who wrote the article did not pick people from the south and north of Iran, It only says 150 Iranians. If you read the original post of the thread once more, you will notice that there is a point where the quote of the article ends and Shinai's own words start. What Shinai is saying is completely unrelated to the article that he/she has quoted and put a link for.
Originally posted by shinai

Please consider the total percentage of central asian markers in north of Iran ( N, O, R) then compare it to the other middle easterns
Shinai, I have read enough of your posts to know what you are trying to say, but why did you quote and put a link for an article that is completely unrelated to what you say? It is confusing to the reader.


Edited by omshanti - 28-Jan-2007 at 19:54
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 18:01
Omshanti, if you look at the link i gave, which is from teh same source you will see - only people from North and South were picked!
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  Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 18:15
Thank you Zagros. I did not know that was from the same source, now I agree with you on that part. 150 people only from the south and north are not enough to tell about the whole county. It is like picking people only from the Caucasus and the far east and trying to tell about the whole of Russia.
Where does it mention specific ethnic groups such as Aryans, Mongolians or Turkic people? The article itself says that people from Anatolia to the Indus valley have all genetically contributed to the population of Iran, Doesn't this contradict what Shinai is trying to say? Maybe I am missing something here. Please guide me if there are more links that are related to the article.

Edited by omshanti - 29-Jan-2007 at 03:39
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  Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 00:38
Sorry Zagros I just realized that my poorly written and ambiguous posts might have appeared as a dig at you, but that was not my intention. What I am trying to say is that regardless of the credibility of the genetic test (which you pointed out) referred to in the article , Shinai is saying something completely different from the article, which makes me doubt the credibility and the intention of this topic/thread itself rather than that of the article and the test..

Edited by omshanti - 29-Jan-2007 at 05:21
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  Quote Bulldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 06:20
Why are you getting in a fuss, you see that's the problem with your ideals of "race".
 
What is the purpose of these genetic studies?
 
Its not suprising that people from Central Asia have left a mark on Iran, neither that people from all over the world have.


Edited by Bulldog - 29-Jan-2007 at 06:21
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 08:27
Originally posted by Zagros

They should sample as many ethnic groups as possible from all over the country (30 of each?) and compare them rather than just randomly picking people from N and S without specifying anything else.
 
I agree with that logic.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 08:40
Originally posted by Bulldog

Why are you getting in a fuss, you see that's the problem with your ideals of "race".

What is the purpose of these genetic studies?


Its not suprising that people from Central Asia have left a mark on Iran, neither that people from all over the world have.


The fuss is that people derive blanket conclusions on the back of a hardly representative study. Such studies may be sufficient for tiny countries like England where the N and S is the equivalent of one province in Iran being compared with a neighbouring province. Besides, haplogroups are not even race related, all they specify is common ancestry from one Y-Chromosome lineage or another there exist black men and white men with the same HG.

We knew before this study that Iran's major tribes came from Central Asia, I am attacking this study itself for being incomplete and making a blanket assessment - nothing to do with its results.
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 13:25
Originally posted by Zagros


We knew before this study that Iran's major tribes came from Central Asia, I am attacking this study itself for being incomplete and making a blanket assessment - nothing to do with its results.
 
Wait a bit, man, one cannot produce a complete study.  The truth is infinite Smile 
 
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 13:49
The sampling is incomplete.
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  Quote omshanti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 02:05
Originally posted by Zagros

We knew before this study that Iran's major tribes came from Central Asia, I am attacking this study itself for being incomplete and making a blanket assessment - nothing to do with its results.
OK, I am lost here. Where is ''Central Asia'' mentioned in this study/article? Am I missing something here? Please let me know if I am. It has been really puzzling me.



As far as I can see this is what the study/article says.

1. ''The Iranians display considerable haplogroup diversity consistent with
patterns observed in populations of the Middle East overall,
reinforcing the notion of Persia as a venue for human disseminations.''

2. ''Admixture analyses of geographically targeted, regional populations
along the latitudinal corridor spanning from Anatolia to the Indus
Valley demonstrated contributions to Persia from both the east and
west. However, significant differences were uncovered upon
stratification of the gene donors, including higher proportions from
central east and southeast Turkey as compared to Pakistan.''

Edited by omshanti - 30-Jan-2007 at 06:27
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  Quote shinai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 17:12
Omshanti
The N2, o,and Q are central and east asian markers, R also belongs to central asian,east european, and indians. the total precentage of them in north of Iran is 45% and in south is 26 %.
 
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  Quote barbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 15:34
Originally posted by Zagros

The sampling is incomplete.
 
I just wonder why they still present the results if they know the sampling isn't complete. As the people in that field, they should know how the sampling should be done. Even if they don't, then the editors?
 
As far as I understood, the research focused on answering the question of : the extent to which the deserts within the Iranian plateau and the mountain ranges surrounding Persia inhibited gene flow via this corridor remains uncertain, so what they are concerned is two groups (although there are varieties among respective groups within itself), then for me the sampling is more that enough, or am I missing a point here?
 
 
 
 
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 16:44
That is from the point of view of an Iranian who knows of the many different backgrounds among the people in his country (me). Different parts of Iran have seen different tribes settle them.

At the least sampling should be done in every province.
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