Iranian y chromosome
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: General History
Forum Name: Archaeology & Anthropology
Forum Discription: Topics on archaeology and anthropology
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17393
Printed Date: 08-Jun-2024 at 01:12
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Topic: Iranian y chromosome
Posted By: shinai
Subject: Iranian y chromosome
Date Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 17:12
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Please note the reasult of the latest study done about Iranian in:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2006/06/y-chromosomes-of-iran.html - http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2006/06/y-chromosomes-of-iran.html
"Iran: Tricontinental Nexus for Y-Chromosome Driven Migration.
Regueiro M, Cadenas AM, Gayden T, Underhill PA, Herrera RJ. Due to its pivotal geographic position, present day Iran likely served as a gateway of reciprocal human movements. However, the extent to which the deserts within the Iranian plateau and the mountain ranges surrounding Persia inhibited gene flow via this corridor remains uncertain. In order to assess the magnitude of this region's role as a nexus for Africa, Asia and Europe in human migrations, high-resolution Y-chromosome analyses were performed on 150 Iranian males. Haplogroup data were subsequently compared to regional populations characterized at similar phylogenetic levels. The Iranians display considerable haplogroup diversity consistent with patterns observed in populations of the Middle East overall, reinforcing the notion of Persia as a venue for human disseminations. Admixture analyses of geographically targeted, regional populations along the latitudinal corridor spanning from Anatolia to the Indus Valley demonstrated contributions to Persia from both the east and west. However, significant differences were uncovered upon stratification of the gene donors, including higher proportions from central east and southeast Turkey as compared to Pakistan. In addition to the modulating effects of geographic obstacles, culturally mediated amalgamations consistent with the diverse spectrum of a variety of historical empires may account for the distribution of haplogroups and lineages observed. Our study of high-resolution Y-chromosome genotyping allowed for an in-depth analysis unattained in previous studies of the area, revealing important migratory and demographic events that shaped the contemporary genetic landscape." The reasult is very intresting showing that iranian has at least %50 genes from central asia including %18 of mongolian origin in the north.
Also Iranian have % 4 african genetic at south.
The reasult shows thatIranians are mostly from central asian origin, could be Aryan or Turkic immigrants.
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Replies:
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 26-Jan-2007 at 17:51
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150 individuals from only north and south Iran is hardly representative, in other countries they make studies in the thousands.
To carry out this test properly, they will need to test thousands of individuals from every part of Iran and specify which tribe/ethnic group these people come from and from which region.. 37 people from N. Iran and 113 from S. Iran doesn't cut it for me, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5379/496/1600/iran.jpg - http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/5379/496/1600/iran.jpg ------------- |
Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 27-Jan-2007 at 20:54
I don't want to say anything about the research itself but representative group is considered to be more than 30 individuals in any biological research. So, 150 individuals is more than enough. ------------- . |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 00:59
| The shape of distribution is following the histoical events like Aryans,Mongolian and Turkic immigrations to Iran. it looks like the new comers had setteled in Iran and mixed with the aboriginals. This data could support the idea that says the Iranian identity is different from middle easterns and have something form central Asia. |
Posted By: omshanti
Date Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 08:39
I am lost here. No matter how many times I read the article I can not find those numbers that you mention just after the article itself Shinai. The article does say that the samples were taken from 150 Iranians but it does not mention south or north at all, nor does it give any specific numbers. In fact the article says ''The Iranians display considerable haplogroup diversity consistent with patterns observed in populations of the Middle East overall''. Which one should I believe Shinai? The article itself or what you wrote after it? |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 12:01
| Please consider the total percentage of central asian markers in north of Iran ( N, O, R) then compare it to the other middle easterns |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 12:40
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The reason why i think it is insignificant is that Iran is a huge country with many different ethnic groups, the north will not be the same as the west or the east, etc.. They should sample as many ethnic groups as possible from all over the country (30 of each?) and compare them rather than just randomly picking people from N and S without specifying anything else. ------------- |
Posted By: omshanti
Date Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 18:00
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 18:01
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Omshanti, if you look at the link i gave, which is from teh same source you will see - only people from North and South were picked! ------------- |
Posted By: omshanti
Date Posted: 28-Jan-2007 at 18:15
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Thank you Zagros. I did not know that was from the same source, now I agree with you on that part. 150 people only from the south and north are not enough to tell about the whole county. It is like picking people only from the Caucasus and the far east and trying to tell about the whole of Russia.
Where does it mention specific ethnic groups such as Aryans, Mongolians or Turkic people? The article itself says that people from Anatolia to the Indus valley have all genetically contributed to the population of Iran, Doesn't this contradict what Shinai is trying to say? Maybe I am missing something here. Please guide me if there are more links that are related to the article. |
Posted By: omshanti
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 00:38
| Sorry Zagros I just realized that my poorly written and ambiguous posts might have appeared as a dig at you, but that was not my intention. What I am trying to say is that regardless of the credibility of the genetic test (which you pointed out) referred to in the article , Shinai is saying something completely different from the article, which makes me doubt the credibility and the intention of this topic/thread itself rather than that of the article and the test.. |
Posted By: Bulldog
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 06:20
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Why are you getting in a fuss, you see that's the problem with your ideals of "race".
What is the purpose of these genetic studies?
Its not suprising that people from Central Asia have left a mark on Iran, neither that people from all over the world have. ------------- “What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.” Albert Pine |
Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 08:27
I agree with that logic. ------------- . |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 08:40
The fuss is that people derive blanket conclusions on the back of a hardly representative study. Such studies may be sufficient for tiny countries like England where the N and S is the equivalent of one province in Iran being compared with a neighbouring province. Besides, haplogroups are not even race related, all they specify is common ancestry from one Y-Chromosome lineage or another there exist black men and white men with the same HG. We knew before this study that Iran's major tribes came from Central Asia, I am attacking this study itself for being incomplete and making a blanket assessment - nothing to do with its results. ------------- |
Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 13:25
Wait a bit, man, one cannot produce a complete study. The truth is infinite
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 29-Jan-2007 at 13:49
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The sampling is incomplete. ------------- |
Posted By: omshanti
Date Posted: 30-Jan-2007 at 02:05
As far as I can see this is what the study/article says. 1. ''The Iranians display considerable haplogroup diversity consistent with patterns observed in populations of the Middle East overall, reinforcing the notion of Persia as a venue for human disseminations.'' 2. ''Admixture analyses of geographically targeted, regional populations along the latitudinal corridor spanning from Anatolia to the Indus Valley demonstrated contributions to Persia from both the east and west. However, significant differences were uncovered upon stratification of the gene donors, including higher proportions from central east and southeast Turkey as compared to Pakistan.'' |
Posted By: shinai
Date Posted: 03-Feb-2007 at 17:12
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Omshanti
The N2, o,and Q are central and east asian markers, R also belongs to central asian,east european, and indians. the total precentage of them in north of Iran is 45% and in south is 26 %.
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Posted By: barbar
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 15:34
I just wonder why they still present the results if they know the sampling isn't complete. As the people in that field, they should know how the sampling should be done. Even if they don't, then the editors?
As far as I understood, the research focused on answering the question of : the extent to which the deserts within the Iranian plateau and the mountain ranges surrounding Persia inhibited gene flow via this corridor remains uncertain, so what they are concerned is two groups (although there are varieties among respective groups within itself), then for me the sampling is more that enough, or am I missing a point here?
------------- Either make a history or become a history. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 16:44
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That is from the point of view of an Iranian who knows of the many different backgrounds among the people in his country (me). Different parts of Iran have seen different tribes settle them.
At the least sampling should be done in every province. ------------- |
Posted By: omshanti
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2007 at 23:22
Thank you Shinai for replying, I thought my posts were going to be ignored. I have to admit that I have absolutely no knowledge about genetic markers. I have some questions. 1. where does the study mention specific numbers of percentage such as 45% , 26% , 18% Mongolian, 50% Central Asian or 4% African...etc? 2. As Zagros wrote haplogroups can not be related to race. Is it really possible to say exactly which genetic marker belongs to which region or which ethnic group such as Mongolian, African, Central Asian ,Turkic....etc? 3. If the result of the study shows what you have been saying, then why does the article itself (which must have been written by the people who did the study) say something different from it? |