Pork eating & christmas

"I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification were through the law. then Christ died to no purpose."

I have come across this subject before and i would like to share this with you all.

tell me what you think?

J.G Frazer in his book "The Golden Bough" stated that the orgins of not eating pig and for the matter any dietary taboo would most likely come from the animal originally being sacred. This would most probably come from a distant past which the people only remember the taboo but not the reason why. Tribes not eating a particular animal for such reasons  isn't rare and for him that would be the most likely original reason for the Semites taboo.

"Certainly pig was one of the most sacred animals of the Syrians. At the great religious metropolis of Hierapolis pigs were neither sacrificed nor eaten, and if a man touched a pig he was unclean for the rest of the day. some say people said this was because the pigs were unclean; others said it was because the pigs were sacred.1 This difference of opinion points to a state of religious thought and feelings in which ideas of sanctity and uncleanness are not yet differentiated, and best indicated by the word taboo."page 393- 394

and further (this is the good bit in my italics)

"The attitude of the Jews to the pig was as ambiguous as that of the heathen Syrians towards the same animal. The Greeks could not decide whether the Jews worshiped swine or abominated it. On the one hand they might not eat swine; but on the other hand they might not kill them.2 And if the former rule rule speaks of the uncleanness, the latter speaks still more strongly for the sanctity of the animal. For whereas both rules cannot, be explained on the supposition that the pig was unclean. If therefore, we prefer the former supposition, we must conclude that, originally at least, the pig was held to be sacred rather than unclean by the Israelites. This can be confirmed by the fact that down to the time if Isaiah some Jews used to meet secretly in the gardens to eat the flesh of swine and mice as a religious rite.3
pg 394-395

edit : First published in 1890, this was from my Canongate 2004 edition

The notation (and the actual text below this if possible)
1. Lucian, De Dea Syria 54
2 Plutarch, Quaest. Conviv. iv. 5.
3 Isaiah 1xv. 3, 4 1xvi. 3, 17. (chapter 66)

1 " They sacrifice bulls and cows alike and goats and sheep; 64 pigs alone, which they abominate, are neither sacrificed nor eaten. Others look on swine without disgust, but as holy animals. 65 Of birds the dove seems

the most holy to them, 66 nor do they think it right to harm these birds, and if anyone have harmed them unknowingly they are unholy for that day, and so when the pigeons dwell with the men they enter their rooms and commonly feed on the ground." link

2 cant find a web based source for this

3 "3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.." link

Edited by Leonidas - 29-Dec-2006 at 06:59

 

leviticus 11:7-8

 
The pig, for even though it has divided hoofs and is cloven-footed, it does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8Of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch; they are unclean for you.

http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=leviticus+11%3A7-8&vnum=yes&version=nrsvae

 

Matthew 8:32 

And he said to them, �Go!� So they came out and entered the swine; and suddenly, the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the sea and perished in the water.

http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=acts+10%3A9-16&vnum=yes&version=nrsv

Mark 5:13

So he gave them permission. And the unclean spirits came out and entered the swine; and the herd, numbering about two thousand, rushed down the steep bank into the sea, and were drowned in the sea.

http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=acts+10%3A9-16&vnum=yes&version=nrsv

 

Deuteronomy 14:8

 

And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy%2014%20;&version=9;

 

Isaiah 65:2-4

 

held out my hands all day long to a rebellious people, who walk in a way that is not good, following their own devices; 3a people who provoke me to my face continually, sacrificing in gardens and offering incense on bricks; 4who sit inside tombs, and spend the night in secret places; who eat swine�s flesh, with broth of abominable things in their vessels;

http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=acts+10%3A9-16&vnum=yes&version=nrsv

 

Isaiah 65:17

Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following the one in the center, eating the flesh of pigs, vermin, and rodents, shall come to an end together, says the Lord.

http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=acts+10%3A9-16&vnum=yes&version=nrsv

Here is a more comprehensive article of the same discussion as the one Loknar posted, about Egyptians and pigs.
http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/ap2.htm

 

 

Why have restrictions on food? its just as silly a question as asking why a doctor would recommend an overweight heavy smoking, heavy drinking, junk food indulging guy to if possible cut these out of his diet if he wants a healthy life.

Take yourself back 2000 years, to a very hot climate, no fridge's little preservations etc and that the average human life span wasn't very long, advancements were required. Hygiene was a major contributor to human illnesses and problems, therefore rules were created to "benefit" humans. Pigs have pretty poor hygiene and their meat is susceptable to many diseases in such an environment. Shell-fish especially in polluted areas intakes all these pollutions and can make eating it a health risk.

The Jews in their 40 years in wilderness had to watch hygiene and cleanseness if they were to survive very long and so created laws on food, which were very pracitcal and beneficial.

Jesus(p.b.u.h) followed these laws, his immediate family also did and they and the initial followers carried on the actual teaching's of Jesus (P.b.u.h). However, these were discarded by Peter who didn't actually know or follow these original teachings and instead bought a more stomachable version to Rome.

There was a great program on this yesterdaay.

The secret family of Jesus(p.b.u.h)

http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/can_you_believe_it/index.html    

Yes ,but Jews too lived in a dry hot region near desert.
I don't mean that this was the reason for prohibiting pork but simple hygiene rules ,climate ,environment affected the creation of a taboo and the form of it and vice versa.
Taboos would be invented one way or another-the form of them is affected of tradition and this of the factors mentioned above(and much more of course)
This prohibitions where shaped also by the leaders and reformers of a religion.Those who were writing the "holy scripts".

Originally posted by Brainstorm Originally posted by Leonardo Originally posted by Brainstorm Just imagine eating fatty pork ,drinking alcohol and getting out at the desert!Common sense. Ancient Jews didn't live in desert ...      Arabs did.

Yes, they did but this is not the reason why they didn't eat pork. Jews too didn't eat pork and they didn't live in desert ...

As I have already written alimentary prohibitions and others taboos are "invented" to distinguish and separate "our" people from "others" and to reinforce ethnocentrism.


    

Btw ancient Egyptians lived near desert and they ate pork





    http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/pigs.htm

Edited by Leonardo - 26-Dec-2006 at 06:31

Originally posted by xi_tujue Originally posted by Leonardo Originally posted by Zagros As for eating pork, why do Judaism and Islam forbid it?      The Jews had the necessity to distinguish themselves from the neighbouring peoples who ate pork, to create the ideology of "we against them". Islam is only a reformed judaism, so ... your source or proofbtw Christianity is also a reform of Judaism so....

About judaism and (not)eating pork a good source is "The Bible Unearthed. Archeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts", by Finkelstein and Silberman.


    

Just imagine eating fatty pork ,drinking alcohol and getting out at the desert!
Common sense.

Originally posted by Zagros As for eating pork, why do Judaism and Islam forbid it?

    
The Jews had the necessity to distinguish themselves from the neighbouring peoples who ate pork, to create the ideology of "we against them".

Islam is only a reformed judaism, so ...