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The modern Greek military

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Julius Augustus View Drop Down
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  Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The modern Greek military
    Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 04:32
thanks for the reply konstantinius, how many Greeks are there right now? 20 million? 
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 08:00
11.000.000 in Greece, approximately 5.000.000 abroad. 
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 13:10
Originally posted by konstantinius

Turkey has the numbers; they'll probably take some islands off the coast, perhaps breach the Evros line into Thrace. Regardless, this time they'll have to eliminate ALL of 11,000,000 Greeks (plus immigrants) because we won't stop the insurgency untill we get it all back. So, a war against Greece is really not a good option for Turkey! 
 
Actually this is not the case. Military estimations are (of course reality has a funny way of making fun of estimations and plans) the following in a hypothetical war situation:
 
-It will last only a few days, before EU and NATO separate us.
- Turkey has a change of winning only in concentrating all forces at a small/medium size island, in order to conquer it. From Greek point of view, if landing is not possible to avoid, Greek army on the island is ordered to retreat, in order to avoid destruction, and to defend in remote areas harassing the enemy as much as possible. Then, when discussions start, Turkey will not be able to say that they have control of the terrain.
- Greece will counterattack using all forces available at the Ebros line. Perception is Greece will use it's advantage on highly mobile units to penetrate with armored forces and drive as deep as possible avoiding heavy casualties in terms of numbers.
- When negotiations start, we trade one advantage with the other and we're even (minus a few thousand dead, economy in ruins etc...)
 
 
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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 13:41
Basically many believe (and I think justified) that noone will attack on the Evros front. Both armies are well prepared and have built defensive lines. Attacking will mean heavy casualties and small gaining.
Turkey will most certainly opt to attack an island, as there are several which are very close to the Minor Asian coast.

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  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 16:51
Originally posted by xristar

With what industrial capabilities would Greece join the Eurofighter program?
 
Well, Greece at least seems to have enough industrial capabilities to assemble the Leopard 2HEL indigenously.  In any case, let's take as an example Spain - Spain has never had a very strong aeronautical industry, except in the transport aircraft sector (CASA's C.212 Aviocar and C.295, amongst others, have been popular aircraft and have seen many exports), but yet Spain is partaking in the Eurofighter program and CASA is now a subsidiary of EADS (with independent engineering, IIRC).  I think the industry can be built, since Spain is also preparing to build a Eurocopter plant in Albacete to assemble Spain's Tiger HAD helicopters and future NH-90 utility helicopters.
 
I don't think lack of industrial capability is a huge issue, since the industrial capability can be built and the Eurofighter doesn't have to be built in Greece and instead can be assembled in Germany (like Austrias 15 Eurofighters?).

Plus, Greece hasn't chosen the eurofighter yet, as her future fighter.
 
I think the 'future fighter' is the F-16 Block 50/52+, and the F-16 will probably remain Greece's air superiority fighter for quite some time.  The F-16 was probably a considerably cheaper option than the Eurofighter, and at least provides substantial combat potential even if it's not 'up to standards' with the Eurofighter.
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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 18:29
Yes, theoretically Greece could participate in the program, but only with a small percentage.

the F-16 is the current fighter. Greece is seeking her future fighter, a fighter that will fly for the next 3 decades at least.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2008 at 22:46

Scalp Naval As for the Greek project FREMM


Vue de la FREMM propos&eacute;e &agrave; la Gr&egrave;ce View of the FREMM proposed to Greece
cr&eacute;dits : DCNS Credits: DCNS

Artical traslanted from French to english


15/04/2008


The french government has given its consent to the sale of cruise missiles Scalp Naval to Greece, if it opts for the FREMM as part of the renewal of its fleet of frigates. The president of DCNS was in Athens as part of the opening of a permanent office of the group in the Greek capital.DCNS has also signed a new agreement with Elefsis site, which will carry out the buildings if Athens is the choice of French frigate. This new agreement, which follows the one signed at the end of 2006, sets out the arrangements for the industry organization between french and Greek groups to carry out the program, estimated at several billion euros. "Our desire is to establish a viable Greece to participate in the renewal of frigates of the Hellenic Navy and development programme FREMM. It is a global partnership in the long term and high technological value to the industry Greek, creator of a large number of skilled jobs, "says Jean-Marie Poimboeuf.
The project covers not only the construction of buildings locally, with a significant transfer of technology, but also the integration of Greece to the European FREMM programme, to which Italy is already involved. . "We incorporate equipment Greek both the French frigates as those we sell in the export market." Climatisation, informatique, &eacute;lectronique... Air conditioning, computers, electronic. While it is too early, according to the boss of DCNS, to say what kinds of equipment could be shipped, he said that within the framework of tenders for the realization of frigates, Greek companies may propose solutions and business opportunities.
Tried priority by the Greek authorities, the renewal of frigates is budgeted for the five-year capital of the country. The French seem for the time being and the well-placed Naval Scalp is a new argument. Developed by MBDA, the first European cruise missile is a weapon very important because few countries have. Taken from the frigate, the missile can reach a target land over 1000 km. So it is a "big plus" for the French offer, in competition with projects including the TKMS German, the Spanish and Dutch Navantia Schelde.
We will return tomorrow, more detail on this project, regarded as "strategic" by DCNS.

http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=107450

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Apr-2008 at 22:48
According to one of the biggest defence magazines in Greece "Stratigiki" it was written that there was a reconsideration of the plans and budget concerning HAF. The budget it was estimated up to 10 billion euros (16 billion dollars under todays currencies). There are plans to purchace 40 next generation aircrafts (5 billion euros), purchase 30 more aircrafts (1.5 billion euros)-(probably F-16 blk 52 ADV+) in order to replace the rest A-7s Corsair, 36 new training aircraft (900 million euros), and 50-60 aircrafts will be upgraded 40 F-16s blk 50, 10-20 Mirage 2000..i do not know how credible and how close to the HAFs final decisions are these details, but the only that i can say with more certainty is that the refference to the total budget of 10 billion euros targetted for HAFs armaments approaches truth
 
Credit fantasma
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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2008 at 13:04
Something that is discussed in the parliament today, is the proposal that military service will be obligatory at 19 years.
Today, the system allows students to postpone their enlistment several years (that's my case as well, I should've been called in 2005, but postponed it to 201something).
The problems are that many students drag the postponement until it's too late for them to serve (instead they buy their service with money) and many also go abroad and never serve.
Additionally, as the percentage of men continuing their studies after school has increased dramatically, the majority of men under 25 are untrained, which means a loss of 300,000 men for Greece in case of a call to arms.

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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-May-2008 at 23:34
has anyone got any more news about karamlis statement that there is interested in Russian fighters. He said something to that effect when he went over there, agian.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2008 at 06:39

For the Greeks sake I hope someone briefed him otherwise. Having fighters from different sources just destroys your whole logistic plan.

 
 
 
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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2008 at 09:58
I'm pretty sure we won't be getting any russian fighters.
You propably misunderstood.
We are interested in Be-200 airplanes which are basically firefighting aircraft, and perhaps it can take other roles as well.

Greece is intersted in buying 60 fighters (propably 40+20), and the programme should start anytime now.
The most propable options are the EF and the Rafale.

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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2008 at 11:09
Concerning the mandatory enlistment age, no decisions were made yesterday, but the ministry is now oriented towards the ages of 20 or 21 rather 19, so that pupils have 2 or 3 chances to get into the university after finishing school.

www.in.gr

My comment: while I have no problem to be called to the army right now (I'm 20), I think that breaking one's studies is not a good idea. After all, I rent a flat, with my own furniture etc. One year away, means that either I pay one years' rents without actually using the flat, or move out, with all my stuff, and get a new flat after the military service (this is a nightmarish scenario).


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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2008 at 11:16

More nightmareish than say; Afghanistan?

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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2008 at 17:07
What do you mean?
The situation in Afghanistan?
Or, in addition to being drafted, to be sent to Afghanistan?

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2008 at 20:57
Being sent there obviously.
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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-May-2008 at 22:15
That's not going to happen. The greek detachment in Afghanistan is tiny (150-200 men I think), and service there is voluntary. Additionally, it pays pretty good, so there are enough candidates.

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  Quote Jonathan Catalan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2008 at 13:55
Originally posted by xristar


Greece is intersted in buying 60 fighters (propably 40+20), and the programme should start anytime now.
The most propable options are the EF and the Rafale.


If it's between these two aircraft, I think the Eurofighter has the clear advantage [even if the Gripen is introduced into the tender, as well].
My only regrets are that my blood is red and my heart is on the left.
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2008 at 06:06
Originally posted by xristar

I'm pretty sure we won't be getting any russian fighters.
You propably misunderstood.
We are interested in Be-200 airplanes which are basically firefighting aircraft, and perhaps it can take other roles as well.

Greece is intersted in buying 60 fighters (propably 40+20), and the programme should start anytime now.
The most propable options are the EF and the Rafale.
well i hope i read it wrong, logistically it would be very hard to use Su's, let alone the political issues

 I only hope the make it competitive so they get a good price on the EF, being the best choice (with a eventual bigger number than 60).


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  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-May-2008 at 09:04
If it's between these two aircraft, I think the Eurofighter has the clear advantage [even if the Gripen is introduced into the tender, as well].

I think it too. But it has to do with politics also. France has supported Greece in many occasions. Their offer is also very good, better than that of the EF.
In a sunday's newspaper I read though, that accodring to a governmental official, the EF will be purchased. After all, Greece signed an agreement with the EF consortium back in 2001.

I only hope the make it competitive so they get a good price on the EF, being the best choice (with a eventual bigger number than 60).

I hope that too.
60 Eurofighters is actually quite a big number for Greece. The EF is a very expensive aircraft. Greece is not Britain or Germany, nor Saudi Arabia.
Nonetheless, there is a prediction  for another 80 pieces, after 2015, and of course and unknown number of F-35.

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