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The modern Greek military
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The modern Greek military
    Posted: 21-Mar-2008 at 03:28
Originally posted by kafkas

Originally posted by Leonidas

Originally posted by xristar

In Greece I don't think the military has any influence on the political decisions, to need any excuses.
I don't believe in economic cooperation. I actually believe more on the grecoturkish friendship than economic cooperation. Because it is basically the economic reasons that cause friction. The ship routes of the agean, the national waters and their submarine resources are worth much more than the economical cooperation. Both Greece and Turkey are depended of Oil, without producing any (or at least significant amounts). since it is almost certain that the aegean HAS oil, friction is unavoidable...
I know the Greek militray doesnt have that much influence, they wanted f-15 and got F-16's...so the holder of the purse strings has ultimate say.

Economically, I think Greek politicians rather spend the money elsewhere so there is a economic dimension. Though friendship is more likely with the AKP lead Turkish government, I am still very very cautious of the powerful Turkish military. These clowns have their own domestic agenda (inc keeping control of their purse strings) and cannot differentiate their interests from national interest (in their minds - same thing). This can be dangerous for civilians on both sides of the Aegean. Until that element is gone and certain policies and 'red lines' they sponsor are gone with them, Greece has to stay alert and spend enough to keep reasonable power parity. I'm sure many Turkish politicians want to spend their budgets differently to.




First off, I don't think especially as a moderator you should refer to the Turkish military as clowns.

Second, according to NATO's 2007 figures, Turkish military spending is %2.7 of GDP whereas Greece's is 2.8% of GDP. Neither in my opinion is particularly high.


if your read carefully you should safely assume it is the leadership within the militray that I am talking about. I consider them to have vested interests, not the conscripts or lower ranks who just take orders.

 I think their clowns, parading their own interests as national interests. Of course you can think their hero's, its a matter of opinion or perspective. For the record if your not familiar with my views, i have a natural bias to the AKP (on the surface of it), who probably have as much trust for those 'elements' as i do.

Yes the GDP figures, i wonder if that considers the profit from business's and investments owned by the military?
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Julius Augustus View Drop Down
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Posts: 274 		  Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2008 at 04:28
cool pictures, in the ratio of modernity of the army what is the rank of the Greek army? I saw a bunch of f16 there, cool. 
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kafkas View Drop Down
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Posts: 117 		  Quote kafkas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2008 at 17:58
Originally posted by Leonidas

Originally posted by kafkas

Originally posted by Leonidas

Originally posted by xristar

In Greece I don't think the military has any influence on the political decisions, to need any excuses.
I don't believe in economic cooperation. I actually believe more on the grecoturkish friendship than economic cooperation. Because it is basically the economic reasons that cause friction. The ship routes of the agean, the national waters and their submarine resources are worth much more than the economical cooperation. Both Greece and Turkey are depended of Oil, without producing any (or at least significant amounts). since it is almost certain that the aegean HAS oil, friction is unavoidable...
I know the Greek militray doesnt have that much influence, they wanted f-15 and got F-16's...so the holder of the purse strings has ultimate say.

Economically, I think Greek politicians rather spend the money elsewhere so there is a economic dimension. Though friendship is more likely with the AKP lead Turkish government, I am still very very cautious of the powerful Turkish military. These clowns have their own domestic agenda (inc keeping control of their purse strings) and cannot differentiate their interests from national interest (in their minds - same thing). This can be dangerous for civilians on both sides of the Aegean. Until that element is gone and certain policies and 'red lines' they sponsor are gone with them, Greece has to stay alert and spend enough to keep reasonable power parity. I'm sure many Turkish politicians want to spend their budgets differently to.




First off, I don't think especially as a moderator you should refer to the Turkish military as clowns.

Second, according to NATO's 2007 figures, Turkish military spending is %2.7 of GDP whereas Greece's is 2.8% of GDP. Neither in my opinion is particularly high.


if your read carefully you should safely assume it is the leadership within the militray that I am talking about. I consider them to have vested interests, not the conscripts or lower ranks who just take orders.

 I think their clowns, parading their own interests as national interests. Of course you can think their hero's, its a matter of opinion or perspective. For the record if your not familiar with my views, i have a natural bias to the AKP (on the surface of it), who probably have as much trust for those 'elements' as i do.

Yes the GDP figures, i wonder if that considers the profit from business's and investments owned by the military?




The military is the most trusted institution in Turkey, and that includes its Generals. While some Turks might not agree with some of their actions, nobody doubts that they have Turkey's best interests in mind. Until retirement, Generals are obliged to defend Turkey from foreign aggressors as well as reactionaries wanting to erase Ataturk's reforms.

You could have stated your opinion without resorting to name-calling unnecessarily, and yet you did it a second time here.  I'm sure if I called the Greek military clowns you would probably give me an official warning.

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red clay View Drop Down
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Posts: 10226 		  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2008 at 18:16
You could have stated your opinion without resorting to name-calling unnecessarily, and yet you did it a second time here.  I'm sure if I called the Greek military clowns you would probably give me an official warning.
 
 
 
I think your being a little over sensitive.  Is your intent to discuss the modern Greek Military,
           or just give Leonidas a hard time?
 
 
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Yiannis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2329 		  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Mar-2008 at 18:16
Originally posted by kafkas

   I'm sure if I called the Greek military clowns you would probably give me an official warning.

 
Please feel free to do so, I call them clowns all the time Tongue
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2008 at 03:56
Originally posted by Yiannis

Originally posted by kafkas

   I'm sure if I called the Greek military clowns you would probably give me an official warning.

 
Please feel free to do so, I call them clowns all the time Tongue
Yiannis, how dare you use such names for the patriotic and selfless defenders of Hellas, you are sooo warned!!Angry

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Julius Augustus View Drop Down
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Posts: 274 		  Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Mar-2008 at 05:18
what is the standing army of Greece now? 
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Guests View Drop Down
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2008 at 23:19
A total of 13 Leopard2hell will be in the military parade.

Also for the first time the Bufell armoured recovery vehicle will also be in the

military parade
 
Link in greek
 
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Mar-2008 at 23:22
Some shocking news
 
Greece without maritime patrol aircraft Thumbs%20Down
 
 
Artical translated

APISTEYTO: No aircraft or maritime cooperation Greece, from illiquidity of YPETHA!
24 2008


In mid-April 2008, is expected to return to service the only aircraft available maritime cooperation P-3V Orion Navy, after completion scheduled inspection one month on the premises of the 112 Combat Wing to Eleusis. Even then, however, in the aircraft will remain 200 hours flight, sufficient for only 20 to 40 operational branches, before requiring the submission of a Factory Scheduled Maintenance (PDM) from the DAC at Tanagra. At the premises of the last ongoing three-P-3V, which came primarily as three years, two and one year for submission to PDM, but since the Ministry of Defence is unable to allocate the necessary funding to pay the company! Obviously, this explains the statement of the new Chief ΓΕΝ Antinavarhou George Karamaliki PN on Feb. 26, first, the requirement for aircraft maritime cooperation.

Officers of PN and the Air Force are concerned about the effects of this national interests, as the P-3V undertake surveillance of the Aegean Sea in the context of naval Operation Active Endeavour by NATO against terrorism. The inability to perform its mission by the PN can lead to the initiative of either NATO or Ankara, for the monitoring of aircraft in the Aegean maritime cooperation CN-235MP of the Turkish Navy. In recent already being used for surveillance of the Turkish zone of responsibility, east of Kastelorizo and north of Cyprus, apart from the Athens FIR.

Course article about the unacceptable situation published in the April issue of the magazine Greek Defence & Security

http://www.hellenicdefense.gr/eidiseis.html
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Leonidas View Drop Down
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Posts: 4613 		  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25-Mar-2008 at 03:43
not good, maritime patrol is a key plank for aegean security. i never understood why they bought a handfull of old and not very updated Orions in the first place. Going in cheap at the start can cost much more later on. The CN-235MP or something like that would of been a more appropiate patrol plane.
 
 
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Apr-2008 at 18:24
Greek military is at an advanced stage of negotiations for the purchase 200

M109A3GEA2 from Germany.

http://strategy-geopolitics.blogspot.com/
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Julius Augustus View Drop Down
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Posts: 274 		  Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2008 at 02:29
it seems the Hellenistic air force is fully dependent in foreign technology.

hypothetical question, if Turkey and Greece once again engage in war, who will win?
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Posts: 178 		  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2008 at 13:59
[QUOTE=kiato]Greek military is at an advanced stage of negotiations for the purchase 200

M109A3GEA2 from Germany.

http://strategy-geopolitics.blogspot.com/[/QUOTE]
 
How many M109s does Greece currently operate?  That's a lot of self-propelled howitzers.
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Posts: 178 		  Quote Cataln Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Apr-2008 at 14:00
Originally posted by JUliusAugustus

it seems the Hellenistic air force is fully dependent in foreign technology.
 
I wonder why Greece never joined the Eurofighter program.

hypothetical question, if Turkey and Greece once again engage in war, who will win?
 
Depends on the political intentions of either country.  Well, Turkey would lose politically anyways, because it would most likely be booted out of NATO, it's entry into the EU would be forbidden for the next good number of decades, and much needed foreign aid would probably suddenly end!
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Apr-2008 at 03:09
Originally posted by Cataln

[QUOTE=kiato]Greek military is at an advanced stage of negotiations for the purchase 200

M109A3GEA2 from Germany.

http://strategy-geopolitics.blogspot.com/[/QUOTE]
 
How many M109s does Greece currently operate?  That's a lot of self-propelled howitzers.
 
12 M109A5 155 mm L39
50 M109A3GEA1 155 mm L39
84 M109A2 155 mm L39
51 M109A1B 155 mm L39
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Julius Augustus View Drop Down
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Posts: 274 		  Quote Julius Augustus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Apr-2008 at 01:09
Originally posted by Cataln

Originally posted by JUliusAugustus

it seems the Hellenistic air force is fully dependent in foreign technology.
 
I wonder why Greece never joined the Eurofighter program.


I was wondering about it as well probably because they preferred the American type jets, the f16 and such.

Has the Mirage and other eurojets been tested.
 
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xristar View Drop Down
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Posts: 1028 		  Quote xristar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Apr-2008 at 10:49
With what industrial capabilities would Greece join the Eurofighter program?
Plus, Greece hasn't chosen the eurofighter yet, as her future fighter.

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konstantinius View Drop Down
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Posts: 762 		  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 04:14
Roughly 200,000 I think.
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Posts: 762 		  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 04:20
Turkey has the numbers; they'll probably take some islands off the coast, perhaps breach the Evros line into Thrace. Regardless, this time they'll have to eliminate ALL of 11,000,000 Greeks (plus immigrants) because we won't stop the insurgency untill we get it all back. So, a war against Greece is really not a good option for Turkey! 
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Posts: 762 		  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Apr-2008 at 04:21
Sorry, i don't know what happened to the "reply' button. This all in response to Julius Augustus' post above
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