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Attacks on Muslims rise after veils row

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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Attacks on Muslims rise after veils row
    Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 18:08
Originally posted by malizai_

But if Plutononton's were to discover news sources the martians would still be short of water.
 
Maybe the Plutonons could communicate with the Martians and share any  knowledge about water conservation / usage. Then the Martians would not run out of water either.


Edited by Cryptic - 17-Oct-2006 at 18:09
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  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 18:29
Continuing with absurdity...No the Plutonotons have polar icecaps and the Martians dont, so communication is not going to help. Who knows they may not even be aware of each others problems.
 
Obviously the narrative hasnt worked.
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  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 18:56
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

In every society there would be people who would be leftist, centrist, rightist in various degrees. Similarly there would be people with all sorts of beliefs & thought processes. At some particular times, some events might act as a trigger to flare the held up emotions, but in more developed societies, these events are an exception rather than the rule & are an action of some other action / event which had its ramifications for the self styled haters (in this case terrorism by some muslims & support by a greater majority).

The numerosity of these events is directly proportional to time. As time passes & the scars of those afected  by terrorism or their memory fades, such instances will die a slow death. We cannot expect humans to be perfect, they do respond to situations in their own ways, it is their upbringing & culture which decides the severity, which is the west is pretty mild / low toned.
 
More nonsense as usual from Einstein, doing his intricate relational calculations on the "numerosity" of events pertaining to attacks as a function of time. I would say the media overhypes cases of veils being pulled off when they want to, simply because it relates to a controversy that's brewing in the country. Muslims are most probably not specifically targetted, racism or xenophobia is much broader, in fact the statistics on violence against ethnic minorities shows that they're more or less targetted equally and randomly. That being said, each case like those mentioned above is still deplorable, and is a perfect opportunity for me to crack a head open on a bad day Dead 


Edited by TeldeInduz - 17-Oct-2006 at 20:55
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 21:47
On the same day in Hackney, east London, a black Muslim woman wearing a veil was getting off a bus when a passenger shouted out: "Why don't you show your, lovely hair?"

Hum poor thing must have been truely difficult... I mean this kind of "incident" really needs to be reported. They show how untolerant we Westerners are.

BTW the fact that some women do wear the veil to avoid being bullied is not mentionned by the muslim community. But after all it is THEIR women, so they shouldn't be concerned with OUR (racist & sexist) laws.

By jove what a joke.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 23:53
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by Sparten

 
Don't know about the other two, but in Pakistan its perfectly allright. Our most influential justice was a Christian, and we had a cricket player who used to make a cross everytime he played.
 
I believe that there has also been a Christian General in the  Pakistani Airforce which is the Pride of Pakistan.   These are good signs, but the official torlerance of crosses and the  tolerance displayed towards famous atheletes, Justices and Generals might not be mirrored on streets with average Christians.  (Especially in certain areas)
 
Have there been attacks on Christians in Pakistan after people noticed that they were wearing a cross or had Christian symbols in their stores?  Also are people more likely to attack Christians after business disputes because some police will look the other way?   
To answer your questions
1) Yes obviously bigots exist everywhere. And in Christian localities people have attacked muslims. But its rare. There are 10 million Christians in pakistan, Christmas is an official holiday.
2) No not to my knowledge.
 
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  Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 01:00
BTW the fact that some women do wear the veil to avoid being bullied is not mentionned by the muslim community. But after all it is THEIR women, so they shouldn't be concerned with OUR (racist & sexist) laws.

By jove what a joke.

I have two problems with this: Firstly, I want to see some proof this has happened, and how widespread this is. Secondly there is no such thing as OUR women or THEIR women!


Thirdly! Over half the muslims in the world don't wear the veil!


Edited by Omar al Hashim - 18-Oct-2006 at 04:11
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 01:26
Originally posted by TeldeInduz

Originally posted by Vivek Sharma


 
More nonsense as usual from Einstein, doing his intricate relational calculations on the "numerosity" of events pertaining to attacks as a function of time. I would say the media overhypes cases of veils being pulled off when they want to, simply because it relates to a controversy that's brewing in the country. Muslims are most probably not specifically targetted, racism or xenophobia is much broader, in fact the statistics on violence against ethnic minorities shows that they're more or less targetted equally and randomly. That being said, each case like those mentioned above is still deplorable, and is a perfect opportunity for me to crack a head open on a bad day Dead




Cracking Einstien's head ?

Anybody attempting that would be blasted off before that. Einstien was one of the greatest men to have ever lived & is revered in the whole world. But off course, he was a scientist & can't expect irrational people to respect him.


Edited by Vivek Sharma - 18-Oct-2006 at 08:07
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  Quote Maharbbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 07:21
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

BTW the fact that some women do wear the veil to avoid being bullied is not mentionned by the muslim community. But after all it is THEIR women, so they shouldn't be concerned with OUR (racist & sexist) laws.

By jove what a joke.

I have two problems with this: Firstly, I want to see some proof this has happened, and how widespread this is. Secondly there is no such thing as OUR women or THEIR women!


Thirdly! Over half the muslims in the world don't wear the veil!


Well when it comes to prooving the all point it is a bit difficult I admit as forcing someone to wear a veil is not a reason for legal action and that anyway you rarely sue your brother or even worst it is impossible to sue an entire neighborhood because 'the climate' forces you to wear a veil.

That said if you can read French I'd advise you to see the website of the organisation "Ni Putes Ni Soumises" which is PACKED with these kind of stories, first hand. Besides lately on youtube I've seen a clip in which a girl was on the verge of being raped by a bunch on kids when a veil comes from the sky and as soon as she puts  it on the boys stop. message being veil = modesty = respect = security. In some places muslim communities are a better law enforcer than the police.

When I was saying OUR and THEIR I was just taking the piss of the all communities movement in the UK. But I am not stupid to the point of think that all women wearing the veil are forced to do it. I'm just pointing out that some are and that it is somehow hypocritical to point at some society pressure (regretable but mild) and not at the other side.

Further on, I'd agree with Alexis de Tocqueville when he says that the more simillar people are the easier a government rules. By putting explicitely out of the society these women create a problem modern state is not made to solve but by other means than violence... If you ask me (you don't but I'll say it any way) I'd say these women are looking for trouble and the day they'll find trouble they'll realized they've been too far.
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 08:18
I've seen a clip in which a girl was on the verge of being raped by a bunch on kids when a veil comes from the sky and as soon as she puts  it on the boys stop. message being veil = modesty = respect = security.
 
If you ask me (you don't but I'll say it any way) I'd say these women are looking for trouble and the day they'll find trouble they'll realized they've been too far.

So you offer what that clip offer, security.
 
It is absurd, you blame when others did this, but after this blame, you offer just same thing they offer, security.
 
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  Quote TeldeInduz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 12:47



Well when it comes to prooving the all point it is a bit difficult I admit as forcing someone to wear a veil is not a reason for legal action and that anyway you rarely sue your brother or even worst it is impossible to sue an entire neighborhood because 'the climate' forces you to wear a veil.

That said if you can read French I'd advise you to see the website of the organisation "Ni Putes Ni Soumises" which is PACKED with these kind of stories, first hand. Besides lately on youtube I've seen a clip in which a girl was on the verge of being raped by a bunch on kids when a veil comes from the sky and as soon as she puts  it on the boys stop. message being veil = modesty = respect = security. In some places muslim communities are a better law enforcer than the police.

When I was saying OUR and THEIR I was just taking the piss of the all communities movement in the UK. But I am not stupid to the point of think that all women wearing the veil are forced to do it. I'm just pointing out that some are and that it is somehow hypocritical to point at some society pressure (regretable but mild) and not at the other side.

Further on, I'd agree with Alexis de Tocqueville when he says that the more simillar people are the easier a government rules. By putting explicitely out of the society these women create a problem modern state is not made to solve but by other means than violence... If you ask me (you don't but I'll say it any way) I'd say these women are looking for trouble and the day they'll find trouble they'll realized they've been too far.
 
They're not looking for trouble..it's an absurd argument and as Mortaza says you cannot blame the victim for this. The "our" women, "their" women concept could only be from someone with internet forum mentality. As far as I know the woman = possession mentality was shrugged off a long time ago. I do not for one moment think that in the majority of countries in the world (including many Muslim countries, though I can only say first hand of Pakistan), that Muslim women are forced to wear a veil in the slightest.


Edited by TeldeInduz - 18-Oct-2006 at 12:48
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 00:33
You know if Starw had kept this to a simple "looks its disconcerting" arguement no one would have lifted an eyelid. Because know what, he would be right. In my office we have a rule against wearing one indoors.  And I always request prospective clients to remove it.
 
But he presented it in a "us and them" way. Now if you read the papers and the politicians statements, well you would be forgiven for thinking that the greatest threat to Western Civilization is a woman who covers up. And an army of them was about to attack London.
 
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