Print Page | Close Window

Attacks on Muslims rise after veils row

Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Current Affairs
Forum Discription: Debates on topical, current World politics
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15528
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 11:53
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Attacks on Muslims rise after veils row
Posted By: malizai_
Subject: Attacks on Muslims rise after veils row
Date Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 14:03

Attacks on Muslims rise after veils row

By Jason Bennetto, Ian Herbert and Jeremy Clarke

Published: 14 October 2006

Islamophobic attacks have surged in the past month in the wake of controversial remarks by ministers about British Muslims, say campaign groups.

The rise in verbal and physical assaults includes a spate of incidents in which Muslim women have been abused for wearing veils and scarves. They come in the week that the issue was raised by Jack Straw, the Leader of the Commons.

Muslim groups blame part of the rise in incidents, which also include assaults, firebombings and racist e-mails, on comments made by politicians and negative media reporting.

At least six Muslim women have been abused for wearing scarves or veils after Mr Straw said last week that he asks Muslim women who visit his constituency surgeries in Blackburn to remove their veil.

In one incident a Muslim woman aged in her 20s had her hijab or headscarf pulled off her head and thrown to the ground by a young white man while she was at Canning Town Tube station in east London. The attack happened on the same day that a Muslim woman had the veil torn from her face by a white man who uttered racial abuse as she waited at a bus- stop in Liverpool's Toxteth district. Both incidents occurred last Friday - the day after Mr Straw described the veil as, "a visible statement of separation".

There were also reports that a young Muslim girl wearing a veil in Mr Straw's Blackburn constituency was confronted by three youths last Friday night. One allegedly threw a newspaper at her and shouted: "Jack has told you to take off your veil."

Three days later, a 21-year-old Turkish student told Muslim News that she was standing outside a supermarket in Canterbury, Kent, wearing a hijab when she was verbally abused by a middle-aged white woman. The older woman told her she hated her being in Britain and wanted her to leave.

On the same day in Hackney, east London, a black Muslim woman wearing a veil was getting off a bus when a passenger shouted out: "Why don't you show your, lovely hair?"

The sixth incident involved a Muslim woman wearing a hijab, who reported that when she got on to the London Underground two men standing next to her deliberately started discussing their support for a ban on veils.

Even before Mr Straw's remarks police had been receiving complaints of abuse towards Muslim women wearing veils. Police officers in Gloucestershire have investigated two allegations of verbal abuse against veiled Muslim women by white men. No arrests were made.

The British National Party has also sought to exploit the issue and has sent out anti-Islam leaflets that include a photograph of a veiled Muslim woman.

Azad Ali, the chairman of the Muslim Safety Forum, said: "Since the political party conference started we have noticed a rise in Islamophobic attacks. This time last year we did not have so many incidents.

"The [Muslim] community feels that there is always something negative in the news about Muslims.

"What the Government is doing is pushing away the people they need to engage with. We feel very alienated by comments from people such as John Reid. Similar things have come from the Conservative camp."

The Muslim Safety Forum, the Muslim Council of Britain and the London Muslim Centre, based in Whitechapel, east London, have all reported abusive racial e-mails since the veil issue was raised.

Other pronouncements on ethnicity issues have been followed by instances of racial abuse. Two days after the Home Secretary, John Reid, declared at the Labour Party conference that extremist Muslim "bullies" must be faced down, the Jamia Masjid mosque in Preston came under attack from a gang of white and black youths, who threw bricks at cars while 100 Muslims, attending mosque for Ramadan, worshipped inside. The following day Falkirk's Islamic centre was set on fire, causing £10,000 damage.

Within 24 hours of that incident, a dairy owned by a Muslim family in Windsor also came under siege. Groups of up to 30 people attacked the Medina Dairy, which has also allegedly been fire bombed. Eight people have been arrested

As Windsor's racial unrest subsided last Thursday, the story of the Muslim police officer Alexander Omar Basha being excused from duty outside the Israeli embassy also began precipitating racial unrest, according to some Muslim community leaders.

On Saturday a British Asian, as yet unnamed, was left critically ill in hospital following a suspected racist attack outside a supermarket in the Netherhall area of Leicester. A second Asian man was also seriously injured. Leicestershire police believe an altercation took place between the two Asian men, who are friends, and a group of white youths.

A Teesside family were also targeted at the weekend after vandals daubed graffiti on their home. The Joacph family were forced to cut short a holiday when neighbours alerted them to the attack on their home in Saltersgill, Middlesbrough. Slogans, including the words "kill Muslims" and "terrorists live here" were painted on walls and doors. Police have condemned the attack on the Joacphs, who say they are practising Roman Catholics.

Race incidents

* Racist incidents that took place following Jack Straw's comments

Friday 6 October: Muslim woman had her hijab, or headscarf, pulled off and thrown on the floor by a white man in east London.

Friday 6 October: Muslim woman had her veil snatched from her face in Liverpool.

Friday 6 October: Muslim girl wearing a veil in Mr Straw's Blackburn constituency was verbally abused by three youths.

Saturday 7 October: Two Asian men were attacked by racists in Leicester, one critically injured.

Sunday 8 October: Racist graffiti was daubed on a house on Teesside.

Monday 9 October: A 21-year-old Turkish woman wearing a hijab was verbally abused by a white woman in Canterbury, Kent.

Monday 9 October. A black Muslim woman wearing a veil was verbally abused in Hackney, east London.

* Racist e-mails to Muslim groups include:

"All Muslim women should be forced to cover their faces - they are the ugliest bastards in the world."

"Whatever you think you are, you are not welcome in our country any more."

"I think ugly Muslims should wear the veil and the good ones should not."

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article1870842.ece - http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article1870842.ece
 
That is one way to stop the veil. Dead What amazes me is that the forces that be only just identified this issue as a problem.



Replies:
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 15:15
Aka Britian goes apesh*t.
And to think it wasn't that long ago some Brits were telling me about the inhereant supiority of Britian over the continent in such matters.

By the way, how do we know the listed events were directly related to Strawman's remarks?
This stuff happens all the time, just that its generaly not considered news worthy.


-------------
Arrrgh!!"


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 15:30
Because Cywr most are women.

-------------


Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 15:32
And?
Muslim women weren't attacked before?


-------------
Arrrgh!!"


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 15:52
Probably not that frequently in any given week, and probably spitting cases then grabbing by the veil case.
 
Anyhow a watchdog that deals with this issue has the statistics on their website.
http://www.ihrc.org.uk/show.php?id=1427 - http://www.ihrc.org.uk/show.php?id=1427


-------------


Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 17:08
These racists attacks are totally inexcusable, and Jack Straw's comments were highly insensitive.
 
But I have a question to all our friends in Islamic countries like Pakistan, Iran or Saudi-Arabia etc.. What are the official policies on Christian people wearing crucifixes in public or, in the case of them being teachers, in schools?


-------------
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">


Posted By: Reginmund
Date Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 17:28
On a whole, tension between Westerners and everyone else, especially middle-easterners, seems to be a bit on the rise, nothing dramatic but we can't really deny there has been a negative development. This has to do with each side sporting a large number of uneducated ignorants, the sort who hasn't got the wits to see how their simplistic solutions to every problem only makes it worse.

-------------


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 17:51
Originally posted by Komnenos

These racists attacks are totally inexcusable, and Jack Straw's comments were highly insensitive.
 
But I have a question to all our friends in Islamic countries like Pakistan, Iran or Saudi-Arabia etc.. What are the official policies on Christian people wearing crucifixes in public or, in the case of them being teachers, in schools?
 
No disrespect kommenos but could you open a seperate thread for that question.
 
I personaly dont think that Mr straw is a religious bigot but i do think he is a political opportunist. Politics of religion is a very very daaangerous trend and an increasing one.  I have been watching  this development closely and there is a theme developing in the politics, with the same anti-communist zeal of a past era.
 
 


-------------


Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 19:53
Think Cywr is right, just the Independent wanting to sell more papers. These sorts of incidences were occuring before I'm pretty sure, and it's not just Muslims anyway. Eastern Europeans from wherever, doesnt really matter.
 
Originally posted by Komnenos

But I have a question to all our friends in Islamic countries like Pakistan, Iran or Saudi-Arabia etc.. What are the official policies on Christian people wearing crucifixes in public or, in the case of them being teachers, in schools?
 
 
In Pakistan, some Muslim kids are educated by teachers wearing crucifixes and some Christian kids by Muslim teachers. It's really not a big issue what religious denomination people are there.


-------------
Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 15-Oct-2006 at 23:53
Originally posted by Komnenos

These racists attacks are totally inexcusable, and Jack Straw's comments were highly insensitive.
 
But I have a question to all our friends in Islamic countries like Pakistan, Iran or Saudi-Arabia etc.. What are the official policies on Christian people wearing crucifixes in public or, in the case of them being teachers, in schools?
Don't know about the other two, but in Pakistan its perfectly allright. Our most influential justice was a Christian, and we had a cricket player who used to make a cross everytime he played.


-------------


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 08:39
Originally posted by TeldeInduz

Think Cywr is right, just the Independent wanting to sell more papers. These sorts of incidences were occuring before I'm pretty sure, and it's not just Muslims anyway. Eastern Europeans from wherever, doesnt really matter.
  
 
Tele
 
Firstly the E Europeans dont get the stick because of visibility issues,
 
The IHCR report makes it clear that there is a substantial rise. Is this not how things start, how tolerant societies become irrational.
 


-------------


Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 16-Oct-2006 at 08:55

 

Don't know about the other two, but in Pakistan its perfectly allright. Our most influential justice was a Christian, and we had a cricket player who used to make a cross everytime he played.

I dont think It is also problem at Turkey, Infact using a cross in Turkey is much easy than headscarf.



Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 01:30
Why make such a big issue out of these small things. These women reported are much safer in britain, than they would be back home. 

-------------
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 04:42
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

Why make such a big issue out of these small things. These women reported are much safer in britain, than they would be back home. 
its a big issue for every victim Vivek. Such acts and what they mean should be denounced (in any country) and not followed up by a sweeping generalisation with all its impleyed negativity/chauvinism

BTW Ive heard of such things happening over here aswell, while in countries like indonesia its the christians that need to watch out.


-------------


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 05:14
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

Why make such a big issue out of these small things. These women reported are much safer in britain, than they would be back home. 
 
I can appreciate that you have a different set of values where u live. Wacko
BTW, they are NOT being reporrted for being safe.Wacko
Still hearing voices Vivek!!!


-------------


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 05:18
In every society there would be people who would be leftist, centrist, rightist in various degrees. Similarly there would be people with all sorts of beliefs & thought processes. At some particular times, some events might act as a trigger to flare the held up emotions, but in more developed societies, these events are an exception rather than the rule & are an action of some other action / event which had its ramifications for the self styled haters (in this case terrorism by some muslims & support by a greater majority).

The numerosity of these events is directly proportional to time. As time passes & the scars of those afected  by terrorism or their memory fades, such instances will die a slow death. We cannot expect humans to be perfect, they do respond to situations in their own ways, it is their upbringing & culture which decides the severity, which is the west is pretty mild / low toned.






-------------
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 05:54
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

The numerosity of these events is directly proportional to time. As time passes & the scars of those afected  by terrorism or their memory fades, such instances will die a slow death. We cannot expect humans to be perfect, they do respond to situations in their own ways, it is their upbringing & culture which decides the severity, which is the west is pretty mild / low toned.


I agree, in the West the response to cultural affronts is generally more peaceful and less severe than in many other parts of the world. Certainly there is present a legal and political apparatus which seeks to protect the rights of diverse communities (doesn't always, but at least it genuinely tries). That is saying more than in some countries, where abuses are given the tacit sanction of the powers that be (which is another reason for the greater numeracy/severity of the cultural backlashes in those countries which Vivek noted).


-------------


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 11:32
Originally posted by Constantine XI

Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

The numerosity of these events is directly proportional to time. As time passes & the scars of those afected  by terrorism or their memory fades, such instances will die a slow death. We cannot expect humans to be perfect, they do respond to situations in their own ways, it is their upbringing & culture which decides the severity, which is the west is pretty mild / low toned.


I agree, in the West the response to cultural affronts is generally more peaceful and less severe than in many other parts of the world. Certainly there is present a legal and political apparatus which seeks to protect the rights of diverse communities (doesn't always, but at least it genuinely tries). That is saying more than in some countries, where abuses are given the tacit sanction of the powers that be (which is another reason for the greater numeracy/severity of the cultural backlashes in those countries which Vivek noted).
Care to illustrate you statement with examples.
 


-------------


Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 15:16
Originally posted by Sparten

 
Don't know about the other two, but in Pakistan its perfectly allright. Our most influential justice was a Christian, and we had a cricket player who used to make a cross everytime he played.
 
I believe that there has also been a Christian General in the  Pakistani Airforce which is the Pride of Pakistan.   These are good signs, but the official torlerance of crosses and the  tolerance displayed towards famous atheletes, Justices and Generals might not be mirrored on streets with average Christians.  (Especially in certain areas)
 
Have there been attacks on Christians in Pakistan after people noticed that they were wearing a cross or had Christian symbols in their stores?  Also are people more likely to attack Christians after business disputes because some police will look the other way?   


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 17:27
Aliens on planet Mars are short of water. Million of miles away aliens on planet Plutonoton are even more short of water. What the hell does the situation on Plutononton have to do with Mars. The Martians are depleting their reserves really fast and the situation may resemble that on Plutononton. But if Plutononton's were to discover news sources the martians would still be short of water.

-------------


Posted By: Cryptic
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 18:08
Originally posted by malizai_

But if Plutononton's were to discover news sources the martians would still be short of water.
 
Maybe the Plutonons could communicate with the Martians and share any  knowledge about water conservation / usage. Then the Martians would not run out of water either.


Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 18:29
Continuing with absurdity...No the Plutonotons have polar icecaps and the Martians dont, so communication is not going to help. Who knows they may not even be aware of each others problems.
 
Obviously the narrative hasnt worked.


-------------


Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 18:56
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

In every society there would be people who would be leftist, centrist, rightist in various degrees. Similarly there would be people with all sorts of beliefs & thought processes. At some particular times, some events might act as a trigger to flare the held up emotions, but in more developed societies, these events are an exception rather than the rule & are an action of some other action / event which had its ramifications for the self styled haters (in this case terrorism by some muslims & support by a greater majority).

The numerosity of these events is directly proportional to time. As time passes & the scars of those afected  by terrorism or their memory fades, such instances will die a slow death. We cannot expect humans to be perfect, they do respond to situations in their own ways, it is their upbringing & culture which decides the severity, which is the west is pretty mild / low toned.
 
More nonsense as usual from Einstein, doing his intricate relational calculations on the "numerosity" of events pertaining to attacks as a function of time. I would say the media overhypes cases of veils being pulled off when they want to, simply because it relates to a controversy that's brewing in the country. Muslims are most probably not specifically targetted, racism or xenophobia is much broader, in fact the statistics on violence against ethnic minorities shows that they're more or less targetted equally and randomly. That being said, each case like those mentioned above is still deplorable, and is a perfect opportunity for me to crack a head open on a bad day Dead 


-------------
Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................


Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 21:47
On the same day in Hackney, east London, a black Muslim woman wearing a veil was getting off a bus when a passenger shouted out: "Why don't you show your, lovely hair?"

Hum poor thing must have been truely difficult... I mean this kind of "incident" really needs to be reported. They show how untolerant we Westerners are.

BTW the fact that some women do wear the veil to avoid being bullied is not mentionned by the muslim community. But after all it is THEIR women, so they shouldn't be concerned with OUR (racist & sexist) laws.

By jove what a joke.


-------------
I am a free donkey!


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 17-Oct-2006 at 23:53
Originally posted by Cryptic

Originally posted by Sparten

 
Don't know about the other two, but in Pakistan its perfectly allright. Our most influential justice was a Christian, and we had a cricket player who used to make a cross everytime he played.
 
I believe that there has also been a Christian General in the  Pakistani Airforce which is the Pride of Pakistan.   These are good signs, but the official torlerance of crosses and the  tolerance displayed towards famous atheletes, Justices and Generals might not be mirrored on streets with average Christians.  (Especially in certain areas)
 
Have there been attacks on Christians in Pakistan after people noticed that they were wearing a cross or had Christian symbols in their stores?  Also are people more likely to attack Christians after business disputes because some police will look the other way?   
To answer your questions
1) Yes obviously bigots exist everywhere. And in Christian localities people have attacked muslims. But its rare. There are 10 million Christians in pakistan, Christmas is an official holiday.
2) No not to my knowledge.
 


-------------


Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 01:00
BTW the fact that some women do wear the veil to avoid being bullied is not mentionned by the muslim community. But after all it is THEIR women, so they shouldn't be concerned with OUR (racist & sexist) laws.

By jove what a joke.

I have two problems with this: Firstly, I want to see some proof this has happened, and how widespread this is. Secondly there is no such thing as OUR women or THEIR women!


Thirdly! Over half the muslims in the world don't wear the veil!


-------------


Posted By: Vivek Sharma
Date Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 01:26
Originally posted by TeldeInduz

Originally posted by Vivek Sharma


 
More nonsense as usual from Einstein, doing his intricate relational calculations on the "numerosity" of events pertaining to attacks as a function of time. I would say the media overhypes cases of veils being pulled off when they want to, simply because it relates to a controversy that's brewing in the country. Muslims are most probably not specifically targetted, racism or xenophobia is much broader, in fact the statistics on violence against ethnic minorities shows that they're more or less targetted equally and randomly. That being said, each case like those mentioned above is still deplorable, and is a perfect opportunity for me to crack a head open on a bad day Dead




Cracking Einstien's head ?

Anybody attempting that would be blasted off before that. Einstien was one of the greatest men to have ever lived & is revered in the whole world. But off course, he was a scientist & can't expect irrational people to respect him.


-------------
PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn


Posted By: Maharbbal
Date Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 07:21
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim

BTW the fact that some women do wear the veil to avoid being bullied is not mentionned by the muslim community. But after all it is THEIR women, so they shouldn't be concerned with OUR (racist & sexist) laws.

By jove what a joke.

I have two problems with this: Firstly, I want to see some proof this has happened, and how widespread this is. Secondly there is no such thing as OUR women or THEIR women!


Thirdly! Over half the muslims in the world don't wear the veil!


Well when it comes to prooving the all point it is a bit difficult I admit as forcing someone to wear a veil is not a reason for legal action and that anyway you rarely sue your brother or even worst it is impossible to sue an entire neighborhood because 'the climate' forces you to wear a veil.

That said if you can read French I'd advise you to see the website of the organisation "Ni Putes Ni Soumises" which is PACKED with these kind of stories, first hand. Besides lately on youtube I've seen a clip in which a girl was on the verge of being raped by a bunch on kids when a veil comes from the sky and as soon as she puts  it on the boys stop. message being veil = modesty = respect = security. In some places muslim communities are a better law enforcer than the police.

When I was saying OUR and THEIR I was just taking the piss of the all communities movement in the UK. But I am not stupid to the point of think that all women wearing the veil are forced to do it. I'm just pointing out that some are and that it is somehow hypocritical to point at some society pressure (regretable but mild) and not at the other side.

Further on, I'd agree with Alexis de Tocqueville when he says that the more simillar people are the easier a government rules. By putting explicitely out of the society these women create a problem modern state is not made to solve but by other means than violence... If you ask me (you don't but I'll say it any way) I'd say these women are looking for trouble and the day they'll find trouble they'll realized they've been too far.


-------------
I am a free donkey!


Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 08:18
I've seen a clip in which a girl was on the verge of being raped by a bunch on kids when a veil comes from the sky and as soon as she puts  it on the boys stop. message being veil = modesty = respect = security.
 
If you ask me (you don't but I'll say it any way) I'd say these women are looking for trouble and the day they'll find trouble they'll realized they've been too far.

So you offer what that clip offer, security.
 
It is absurd, you blame when others did this, but after this blame, you offer just same thing they offer, security.
 


Posted By: TeldeInduz
Date Posted: 18-Oct-2006 at 12:47



Well when it comes to prooving the all point it is a bit difficult I admit as forcing someone to wear a veil is not a reason for legal action and that anyway you rarely sue your brother or even worst it is impossible to sue an entire neighborhood because 'the climate' forces you to wear a veil.

That said if you can read French I'd advise you to see the website of the organisation "Ni Putes Ni Soumises" which is PACKED with these kind of stories, first hand. Besides lately on youtube I've seen a clip in which a girl was on the verge of being raped by a bunch on kids when a veil comes from the sky and as soon as she puts  it on the boys stop. message being veil = modesty = respect = security. In some places muslim communities are a better law enforcer than the police.

When I was saying OUR and THEIR I was just taking the piss of the all communities movement in the UK. But I am not stupid to the point of think that all women wearing the veil are forced to do it. I'm just pointing out that some are and that it is somehow hypocritical to point at some society pressure (regretable but mild) and not at the other side.

Further on, I'd agree with Alexis de Tocqueville when he says that the more simillar people are the easier a government rules. By putting explicitely out of the society these women create a problem modern state is not made to solve but by other means than violence... If you ask me (you don't but I'll say it any way) I'd say these women are looking for trouble and the day they'll find trouble they'll realized they've been too far.
 
They're not looking for trouble..it's an absurd argument and as Mortaza says you cannot blame the victim for this. The "our" women, "their" women concept could only be from someone with internet forum mentality. As far as I know the woman = possession mentality was shrugged off a long time ago. I do not for one moment think that in the majority of countries in the world (including many Muslim countries, though I can only say first hand of Pakistan), that Muslim women are forced to wear a veil in the slightest.


-------------
Quoo-ray sha quadou sarre.................


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 19-Oct-2006 at 00:33
You know if Starw had kept this to a simple "looks its disconcerting" arguement no one would have lifted an eyelid. Because know what, he would be right. In my office we have a rule against wearing one indoors.  And I always request prospective clients to remove it.
 
But he presented it in a "us and them" way. Now if you read the papers and the politicians statements, well you would be forgiven for thinking that the greatest threat to Western Civilization is a woman who covers up. And an army of them was about to attack London.
 


-------------



Print Page | Close Window

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz - http://www.webwizguide.com