Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

who are pomaks?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 10>
Author
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: who are pomaks?
    Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 10:38
hi!!
I have noticed the topics new. I am very interested at this topics. I think the pomaks are turks(which came from central Asia like Bulgarians and Hungarians etc. and pomaks havent changed their identities like them. pomaks only have changes at language) But pomaks cannot be Greeks. I think they only live at border of the Greece.
 
Finally I want to said POMAKS ARE TURKS maybe its latest mesage of this topics(I dont say this sentence as a propaganda) I have made detailed search and I want to share with you
Back to Top
DayI View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408
  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 10:52
thanks for your contribution, i cant wait to your detailed search.
Back to Top
Afsar Beghi View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 18-Jun-2006
Location: Azerbaijan
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 341
  Quote Afsar Beghi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 12:17
me too.. sounds interesting
Dadaloğlum bir gun kavga kurulur,
Oter tufek davlumbazlar vurulur,
Nice ko yiğitler yere serilir,
Olen lr kalan sağlar bizimdir!
Back to Top
Mortaza View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 21-Jul-2005
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3711
  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 12:32
Bah, I heard some theory that say Bosniaks are Turks..
 
Okey We love them, but I dont think we should make them Turks.
 
Back to Top
Patrinos View Drop Down
Baron
Baron
Avatar

Joined: 05-Sep-2006
Location: Moreas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 473
  Quote Patrinos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Oct-2006 at 18:07
No body here claimed that Pomaks are Greeks. They are greek citisens, they speak and greek,but their mother language is a bulgarian  dialect. They are just Pomaks, and angry with the propaganda on  from all the involved countries.
 
PS: At last deside how whre physically the original Turks who came to Europe in different waves? Slavlooking(Pomaks) or Turanids (mainly among Konya Turks)
 
Back to Top
pomak35 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 27-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote pomak35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 11:06
We know that proto-bulgarians had been from central asia like their turkish tribes. Ok than pomaks are turk tribe but just we cant say bulgarians are turk so they have got different region, different tongue and different appearence which make them slavic as like as pomaks. We all accept that  pomaks have got more pure slavic specialities than bulgarians. Answer of this topic hide in ukranian history so many people say that pomaks have been in ukrania for 300-400 years
Back to Top
The Chargemaster View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain

Kishokan

Joined: 02-Feb-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1066
  Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 11:15
The truth about the pomaks:

The British specialist in Balkan minority-studies Hugh Poulton writes: 'The Bulgarian Muslims (i.e. the Pomaks) are a religious minority. They are Slavic Bulgarians who speak Bulgarian as their mother tongue, but whose religion and customs are Islamic.' (Poulton 1994:111)

Read the full text here: http://www-gewi.kfunigraz.ac.at/csbsc/ulf/pomak_identities.h tm


It is important to be marked the fact, that THE ONLY DIFFERENCE between the pomak - bulgarians and the other bulgarians is their religion. In the old historical sources are preserved many pieces of information about the time and the methods of the forcible coversion to mohammedanism of these AUTHENTIC BULGARIANS.

The older pomaks call the christian bulgarians "kaur" which comes from Turkish "gvur" (infidel). In Pomak dialects there is no word for "Bulgarian". So - those people don't have a sense of ethnic, but just religious difference with christian bulgarians.

Pomaks--a term that loosely translates as collaborators- -were the descendants of ethnic Bulgarians who accepted the Islamic faith during Ottoman rule, mostly between the sixteenth and eighteenth centuries. In 1990 about 150,000 Pomaks lived in mountain villages in southern and southwestern Bulgaria. They were chiefly employed in agriculture, forestry, and mining. Because of their relative isolation in the mountains, the Pomaks did not become mixed with the Turks during the turkish rule, and because of that, one big part of them were not assimilated from the turks, and they retained their bulgarian physical features. Because the Ottoman Turks showed little interest in Pomak lands, and because the Pomaks were converted rather late, most of their traditional Bulgarian customs remained intact. Thus, for example, the Pomaks never learned to speak Turkish.

 

AND MORE(IN ENGLISH):

 

The covercion to mohammedanism was not only "with sword". The other factor "was the economic pressure and the temptation of privileges and tax reductions received for adopting Islam" - this is one characteristic feature of the Turkish Empire.

Read more here: http://www.coronetbooks.com/books/moha8413.htm

 

Also read this:

Muslim Bulgarians

 

Muslim Bulgarians (also Bulgarian Mohammedans, bul:-; local: Pomak, Ahrian, Poganets, Marvak, Poturnak) are descendants of Christian Bulgarians who were forcibly converted to Islam by the Turks, during the 16th and the 18th century. The word pomak is derived from Bulgarian dialectal pomaka (torture) and pomacen (tortured). Those who accepted Islam voluntarily are called Poturnak, meaning "One who turned into a Turk".

Muslim Bulgarians live mostly in the Rhodopes the Smolyan region, the Southern part of the Pazardzhik and Kurdzhali regions and the Western part of the Blagoevgrad region in Southern Bulgaria and the Xanthi and Rhodope provinces in Northeastern Greece. They also live in a group of villages in the Lovech region in Northern Bulgaria.

Muslim Bulgarians speak a variety of archaic Bulgarian dialects. Under the influence of mass media and school education, the dialects have been almost completely unified with standard Bulgarian among Muslim Bulgarians living in Bulgaria. As Greece has tended to regard its Muslim minority as only Turkish-speaking and has allowed only education in Turkish, the Muslim Bulgarian community in Greece has become largely bilingual and the mother tongue of some of its members now is Turkish. The spoken language of those members of the community who have preserved the dialect as their mother tongue has been influenced to a large extent by Turkish and Greek and shows many aberrations from formal Bulgarian.

Pomaks in Bulgaria do not represent a homogenous community. Pomaks living in the eastern part of the Rhodopes tend to be non-practising Muslims and usually have Christian names. A large number of them, especially those living in the municipalities of Zlatograd, Nedelino, Krumovgrad, and Kirkovo, converted to Christianity in the 1990s. Pomaks in the western part of the Rhodopes are, on the hand, strongly religious and have preserved the Muslim name system, customs and clothing. Whereas the majority of the Pomak community has identified itself as Bulgarian in the population censuses in 1992 and 2001, a certain minority in the western Rhodopes has opted for Turkish ethnicity although its mother tongue is also Bulgarian. The name Pomak is strongly pejorative in Bulgarian and is resented by most members of the community, especially by non-practising Muslims. The name adopted and used instead is Bulgarian Mohammedans (Muslim Bulgarians).

The Muslim Bulgarian community in Greece has been largely Turkified. Since the 1990s Greece has made tentative attempts to promote a separate "Pomak" identity, partly because of the advanced Turkification of the non-Turkish members of its Muslim minority (Muslim Bulgarians and Roma) and partly for fear of the growing percentage of Muslims in Thrace in the past couple of decennia. A Greek-Pomak dictionary has been issued and Muslim Bulgarians have frequently been described by Greek authorities as "an amalgamation of Bulgarians, Greeks and Turks" or even as "Muslim Slavophone Greeks".

There is also a substantial Muslim Bulgarian community in Turkey, estimated at some 120,000 people. These are not recognized by the Turkish government as an ethnic minority and have been largely Turkified. Some of them have Turkish or distinctive "Pomak" self-consciousness.

Source: http://pomaks.biography.ms/

Back to Top
The Chargemaster View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain

Kishokan

Joined: 02-Feb-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1066
  Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Oct-2006 at 11:27
Originally posted by pomak35

so many people say that pomaks have been in ukrania for 300-400 years

That`s right. Thumbs Up
Before the slavic invasion in the Balkans (VI - VII century), the slavic tribes who colonized in the eastern and central part of the Balkan peninsula, were living in the territory of today`s Ukraine & Romania.


Edited by The Chargemaster - 04-Oct-2006 at 11:28
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 06:46

I am so sorry Ihave problem with my pc Icant join the forum:

Ithink the truths:
1. INTRODUCTION:


Pomak Turks, an inseperable part of Turks, mostly live in Bulgaria and some of them live in the "forbidden zone" on Rodop Mountains in West Thrace.

Pomak Turks, whom Bulgarians wanted to assimilate by massacres are face to face with the same plans of Greeks in Western Thrace since 1960.

In the Balkans especially between 1877-78, this Turkish tribe experienced severe cruelity by Russians and Bulgarians. They are the dynamic factor of the Turkish minority in Bulgaria and West Thrace.

Bulgarians claim that Pomak Turks are "Moslem Bulgarians" and Greeks claim that they are "Moslem Greeks", actually they are from the Kuman-Kıpak Turkish Tribe who came from North to the region. (2)

They could not been destroyed although they had fell into soverignity of Bulgarians and Byzantians for a while.


The name "Pomak" means "the helper" and was given by Slavs to this tribe.

Bulgarians used the name insultingly to mean "the helper of Ottomans"


According to Greeks, Pomaks are the sons of Alexander the Great and had been forced to become Moslems by Greeks. These arguments are far from reality.

Interstingly the name "Pomak" was extensivley used in XIX. century at the same time with the emergence of the term "Kurd" and "Armenian Problem". This was not a coinicidence, but used deliberatley to seperate Turkish Nation and Ottoman Empire..

http://www.middleeastinfo.org/forum/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=85&t=5523
Back to Top
Antioxos View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 26-Apr-2006
Location: Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 340
  Quote Antioxos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 07:17
Originally posted by aysa

I am so sorry Ihave problem with my pc Icant join the forum:

Ithink the truths:
1. INTRODUCTION:


Pomak Turks, an inseperable part of Turks, mostly live in Bulgaria and some of them live in the "forbidden zone" on Rodop Mountains in West Thrace.

Pomak Turks, whom Bulgarians wanted to assimilate by massacres are face to face with the same plans of Greeks in Western Thrace since 1960.

In the Balkans especially between 1877-78, this Turkish tribe experienced severe cruelity by Russians and Bulgarians. They are the dynamic factor of the Turkish minority in Bulgaria and West Thrace.

Bulgarians claim that Pomak Turks are "Moslem Bulgarians" and Greeks claim that they are "Moslem Greeks", actually they are from the Kuman-Kıpak Turkish Tribe who came from North to the region. (2)

They could not been destroyed although they had fell into soverignity of Bulgarians and Byzantians for a while.


The name "Pomak" means "the helper" and was given by Slavs to this tribe.

Bulgarians used the name insultingly to mean "the helper of Ottomans"


According to Greeks, Pomaks are the sons of Alexander the Great and had been forced to become Moslems by Greeks. These arguments are far from reality.

Interstingly the name "Pomak" was extensivley used in XIX. century at the same time with the emergence of the term "Kurd" and "Armenian Problem". This was not a coinicidence, but used deliberatley to seperate Turkish Nation and Ottoman Empire..

http://www.middleeastinfo.org/forum/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=85&t=5523

About the plans to exterminate the pomaks from the Greek state I don t think that the Greek state is so capable like the Turkish state did in the past with minorities

because the population of WT raised from 1960 till today .

My opinion is to leave these poor people that live in the mountain of Rodop to believe what ever they want and stop trying to make them Greeks, Turks, Bulgarians or what ever.
Back to Top
The Chargemaster View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain

Kishokan

Joined: 02-Feb-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1066
  Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 08:00
Originally posted by aysa


http://www.middleeastinfo.org/forum/index.php?act=Print&client=printer&f=85&t=5523

Thanks for the very ridiculous source.Lamp
Maybe the truth is somewhere between the rows... LOL


Back to Top
pomak35 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 27-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote pomak35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 08:46

we have to be more forbearancely! and have to be out of official theories also not define pomaks as like(pomak turks,muslim bulgarians and ex-greeks) in fact we need to investigate slavic tribes and their effects to balkans. am i right?

Back to Top
The Chargemaster View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain

Kishokan

Joined: 02-Feb-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1066
  Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 08:57
Aren`t they investigated already?
Back to Top
pomak35 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 27-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote pomak35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Oct-2006 at 09:04
 i'm afraid it seems like that at least in this topic...
Back to Top
Brainstorm View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21-Sep-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 407
  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 05:09
Originally posted by aysa


According to Greeks,
Pomaks are the sons of Alexander the Great and had been forced to become Moslems by Greeks. These arguments are far from reality.


Do you read what you are writing?Big smile


I am so sorry Ihave problem with my pc Icant join the forum:



Oh no..we ll miss some moments of laughing!




Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 06:34

yes it is between the rows if you know looking And there are more truths which are hard copy

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 06:44
yes Brainstorm I read What I write And these are my thoughts.
 
and you can laugh whatever you want .it dont disturb me
Back to Top
pomak35 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 27-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
  Quote pomak35 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 07:59

Except from:

SAKALIBA ARE KIPCHAKS, AND BULGARS ARE ONE OF KIPCHAK TRIBES

Mirfatykh ZAKIEV

An article from his book TATARS: Problems of history and language. Kazan, 1995. Pp. 6881.

That ku in ethnonim Kuchak~Kipchak (Kuman) means white, red, fair haired, proves also to be true by the fact that in many Turkic peoples we observe white (yellow) and not white (not yellow) people. Thus, in 5-6 cc. on the territory of Central Asia, Afghanistan, Northwest India and part of East Turkestan the White Huns, who are also referred to as Epthtalites, formed a state. In the history are known White Tatars and Black Tatars, White Khazars and Black Khazars, White Kirghiz and other Kirghiz, Sary Uigurs (Yellow Uigurs) and other Uigurs.

So, in the Turkic fold were peoples who called themselves Fair Haired, White. Further we shall see that these were Kipchaks. That ethnonim Kipchak designates white, light (Turk.: sary chechle yellow haired), the Turkological scientists noticed long ago. Thus, the Hungarian scientist Yu. Nemet came to this conclusion at the end of 30-es. He wrote, that pale yellow names of Kumans (Russ. Polovets) are a copy of their Turkic (self?) names Kuman and Kun, which ascend to Turkic adjective ku (from older kub) pale, yellow [Dobrodomov I.G., 1978, 116; Nemet Yu., 1941, 99].

In Turkic languages the blond man also frequently is referred to as sary chechle yellow haired. Therefore it is no wonder that Kipchaks had also another ethnonim from a word sary yellow. The Western Kipchaks (Russ. Polovets) in ancient Russian sources were called Sorochinets, in that name was reflected the name of the Sary people, which was used prior to the name of the Kun people.

Since the Kipchaks mixed with other steppe tribes they picked up various eastern features. Cultural norms and views regarding ethnic features have had a part to play. For a Mongols, the Kipchaks were fair looking. For a westerner perhaps their doesn't exist much difference.

Lets talk about kumans imigration to eastern europe and slavic effect

Edited by pomak35 - 06-Oct-2006 at 08:02
Back to Top
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 11:43

Haemoglobin O Arab in the Pomak population of Thrace.

Internal Medicine Clinic, First General Hospital Agios Pavlos, Thessaloniki, Greece.

A 21 year old woman from Thrace with clinical and laboratory findings of mild hemolysis, was found to be homozygous for haemoglobin O Arab. Blood samples from 15 members of her family and from 42 inhabitants of her village were examined for the presence of Hb O Arab. A high incidence of this variant allele was also detected among the patient's family members as well as in other inhabitants of the village (p = 0.274 +/- 0.049). The possibility that Pomaks, a culturally unique tribe with controversial ethnic origin, may represent one of the original pools for the geographic distribution of the gene in the broader area of the Mediterranean basin is discussed.

 
 
 
 
 
.
Back to Top
Anton View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph


Joined: 23-Jun-2006
Location: Bulgaria
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2888
  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Oct-2006 at 12:40

In another article different authors point that high frequency of this HbO-Arab mutation might be a result of inbreeding due to isolation of Pomaks for obvious resons.



Edited by Anton - 06-Oct-2006 at 12:51
.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 10>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.