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Batu
Baron
Joined: 31-Aug-2006
Location: Barad-dur
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Posts: 405
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Topic: Lord Saladin : Kurdish or Cuman ? Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 16:18 |
i think he is a Cuman Turk like other Mameluke ruler.
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A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
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Cent
Chieftain
Joined: 20-Jun-2005
Location: Sweden
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Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 16:42 |
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Zagros
Emperor
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Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 17:35 |
His lineage is well known and recorded and it is 100% Kurdish.
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Bashibozuk
Consul
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Location: Turkey
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Posts: 316
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Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 17:39 |
And who was Eshref Khan Bitlisi? A genealogist?
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Garibim, namima Kerem diyorlar,
Asli'mi el almis, harem diyorlar.
Hastayim, derdime verem diyorlar,
Marasli Seyhoglu Satilmis'im ben.
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Penelope
Chieftain
Alia Atreides
Joined: 26-Aug-2006
Location: United States
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Posts: 1042
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Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 23:50 |
It is said that Saladin was of Kurdish heritage, and all through his career he used mainly Kurdish officials as his closest partners.
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OSMANLI
Colonel
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Location: North Cyprus
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Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 12:10 |
Did Selahaddin Ayyubi even care?
He saw his identity as a Muslim and thats it. He fought for Islam, nothing else and his well respected reputation came from his Islamic principles.
So far no has yet shown any evidence of him being a Kurd, Turk or some third race .
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Bulldog
Caliph
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Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 12:30 |
His father died at a young age, his power stemmed from the Turkish AtaBeks, I'm not sure about his actual nationallity does anyone have clear sources?
Lets not forget his wife also, a very powerfull woman who led the Muslim armies after his death, a great figure in woman's history is our dear Shaggrat Dur
http://www.womeninworldhistory.com/heroine1.html
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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine
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Cent
Chieftain
Joined: 20-Jun-2005
Location: Sweden
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Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 16:03 |
"I'm not sure about his actual nationallity does anyone have clear sources?"
His father was a Kurdish trader I think. You can read about him in almost every book regarding the crusades. I've read a few and everyone claims that he had a Kurdish descent.
As Zagros mentioned "His lineage is well known and recorded and it is 100% Kurdish.".
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Kapikulu
Arch Duke
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Berlin
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Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 19:13 |
Does it really matter of what descent he was?
I believe he would like to be reminded with what he had done other than of what descent he was...
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We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;
A Strange Orhan Veli
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Constantine XI
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Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 19:28 |
Quite clearly Kurdish.
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erkut
General
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Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 22:00 |
I think we cant find out his nation. Becouse in that age nation was not important, the important thing was religion. So we cant say he is Kurd or Turk or Arab or Persian, we could only say that he was a muslim.
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Penelope
Chieftain
Alia Atreides
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Posted: 03-Sep-2006 at 23:35 |
Originally posted by erkut
I think we cant find out his nation. Becouse in that age nation was not important, the important thing was religion. So we cant say he is Kurd or Turk or Arab or Persian, we could only say that he was a muslim. |
I can agree with your statement about religion being more important than a nation during that period in those 2 regions.
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Batu
Baron
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Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 01:06 |
his brothers name are : Turan Shah,Tugtekin,Bori,Shanshah all in Turkish.
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A wizard is never late,nor he is early he arrives exactly when he means to :) ( Gandalf the White in the Third Age of History Empire Of Istari )
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Ahmed The Fighter
Chieftain
Lion of Babylon
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Location: Iraq
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Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 05:49 |
But that is not a proof to said he is a Turkish, as we all know his family was in the service of Turkish Atabegs Zangi,Emad Al-Deen and Noor Al-Deen so this is the main reason why they had turkish names as well as Saladin real name is Yousef and his father name is Ayoub both of them are Arabic names so I can't take your topic BATU like a theory.
He is kurdish and his family from Arbil but he was born in Tikrit.
Bulldog Shagarat Al-Durr was not Saladin's wife she was Sultan Al-Saleh Ayoub's wife afetr his death she married Ez Al-deen Aybak then she is killed by an order from Al-Malek Al-Mudhafer Qutoz.
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"May the eyes of cowards never sleep"
Khalid Bin Walid
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DayI
Sultan
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Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 06:13 |
i dont care about his "lineage" but he is a man tobe honoured of what he has done in time...
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erkut
General
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Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 08:20 |
Originally posted by DayI
i dont care about his "lineage" but he is a man tobe honoured of what he has done in time... |
YES
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Reginmund
Arch Duke
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Posted: 04-Sep-2006 at 08:35 |
Uhm, as far as the evidence goes there is no reason to believe he was of Turkic extraction, so please, let's not waste our time on this. It's very frustrating for us historians when people seem more eager to believe what they want to believe, and just disregard the sources and the latest research, you get the feeling you could just well as forget about it, as people believe what suits them anyway.
Personally I think he was Germanic, Norwegian in fact.
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Penelope
Chieftain
Alia Atreides
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Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 00:53 |
Originally posted by DayI
i dont care about his "lineage" but he is a man tobe honoured of what he has done in time... |
I couldnt have said it better.
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Urungu Han
Samurai
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Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 05:25 |
He was clearly Turkic,His uncle was a Turkic chief anmed Nureddin Mahmud Zengi.
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Aster Thrax Eupator
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Posted: 09-Sep-2006 at 05:48 |
From what i've gathered, he was definately of Turkic origin. His father (i think) was a Seljuq
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