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Jews - race or religion
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Lorenzo View Drop Down
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Lorenzo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Jews - race or religion
    Posted: 25-Aug-2006 at 00:04

the word hebrew means 'other side of the flood', referring to the Euphrates basin. that they have kept their ethnic, national, and religious identity throughout their diaspora as well as they have given the obsticles they have endured is unique in human history.
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 10:27
Originally posted by Timotheus

They are both. No need to make a false dichotomy Smile
 
nothing false about it...jews who live and practice their faith in Israeli are Israeli citzens and jewish ie. proscribers to that faith... as are jews living in America...proscribing to that faith...but they are not citzens of both nation states unless provided by law. Arabic-ethnic Israeli citizens who practice Islam in Israel are not jews...but they are Israeli's.  As are christain Druze in another contex.. Christain... yet living as Lebabnese citizens....in a country that predominates Islamic citizens. 
 
my advice and opinion is to be wary of misinterpreting states and the composition of their ethnic religious components with states .. themselves...in point of fact the only real such state imo... that can make this claim ...
 
less the Islamic states themselves... and even here there are exceptions..eg. minority christains and jews living in Syria.. IS ROME....and the Roman Catholic church.
 
Smile


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 20-Aug-2006 at 10:43
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 07:34

Jews defined post WW2, especially for immigration purposes by the State of Israel.----------If u can be gassed AS a jew, than u r a jew.

Fair point.


Edited by malizai_ - 21-Aug-2006 at 12:20
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Posts: 478 		  Quote Timotheus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 22:06
They are both. No need to make a false dichotomy Smile
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Posts: 7392 		  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Aug-2006 at 21:44
Originally posted by erkut

Actually jews are a nation and jewism is their religion but there are some peoples who arent jew but belivs in jewism. Like old Hazar Trks or Karaimer Trks.
 
In point of fact Israel is a 'nation/state' contextualy in 20th-21st century terms. Jews... perse... are not a nation.... but those who proscribe to Judaism ie. a religious belief sytem.
 
Earlier posters imo... are correct ethnicaly speaking or more properly ethnocentricaly ....'jews' do not exsist as a seperate race...ie. in biological terms ....caucasoid..mogoloid..negroid etc...........they may inndividualy be members of those classifcations but according to my understanding not a seperat one of their own.
 
many thousands are from different nations and places. That is not to say that at one time the jews of the past....and to a much lesser degree..the minuscule number that were sucessful in surviving thru the Roman and later times (that remained in Palestine and propogated their familal lines.... )couldn't claim an ethnic designation ie..Semitic..they could.....but as earlier pointed out thats long past.
 
And altho sometime confusing there is more to ethnicity and bio-racial types then meet the eye...it's also unfortunately a primary reason why there has been such tribulation imo in the past.
 
best
 
CV


Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 19-Aug-2006 at 21:47
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

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Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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Posts: 1066 		  Quote The Chargemaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Aug-2006 at 05:40
Jews - race or religion?

Religion, but not a race.
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Posts: 0 		  Quote reginathenative Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 18:44
In my opinion, there is too much emphasis on what we are and what we should call ourselves.. yes in reality that is probably easy to say.. but would there be less wars??? would there be less chaos in the world?? if we didnt have such need for ethnic identity??? yes i know thats unrealistic.. but just think if there was less of that... i am considered DNA wise, at least 50 percent native indian.... but for me and like all others in the world.. the question of what i am seems to be important.. and yes im aware what we are is still important and an issue... Ultimately, for the people in the world who are Jews or Jewish.., im sure its a very important question.. And yes, I am proud to be able to say im at least 50 percent apache indian... proven by DNA testing... Just a thought..Smile
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 05:01
Originally posted by Nestorian

Plus, has anyone actually got a serious study on Jewish genetics studies?
 
Good point declaring people in this debate should use scientific evidence not hypothesis and mysticism.
 
 
Originally posted by Nestorian

Despite the fact that Israel's greatest King, King David was not a pure Hebrew but a quarter Moabite...yes, a Moabite, another of Israel's enemies. And, according to the belief that Messiah will descend from King David, that means the Jewish Messiah is not purely Hebrew either.
 
So you presumably base the claim King David existed on scientific evidence not mysticism too?
 
 
 


Edited by Paul - 15-Aug-2006 at 05:03
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Posts: 0 		  Quote askimayturan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 01:39

Judaism is a religion however, I believe that the lines have become blurry between religion and ethnicity. The term being Jewish has become a norm in our societies but in reality, it is not a ethnic term. The term Jewish can really only apply to one who is a Jew. But, with many terms used in our societies, the real meaning has become lost. In closing, I believe that being a Jew, is a religious ascribed term and being Jewish is not an ethnic title. Ultimately, many individuals do apply the term of Jewish to their ethnicity and there is definitely no harm in that.

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Posts: 161 		  Quote Nestorian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Aug-2006 at 00:04

Wouldn't the enemies of Israel love to define Judaism as a religion and not a race for their own purposes.

sO WHAT is our definition of race then?

Genetic commonality?

My goodness, everyone is mixed and Israel is no exception, and yet, they are not a race?

Plus, has anyone actually got a serious study on Jewish genetics studies?

The Old Testament is a racist book?
 
Where does is it say rape is acceptable? Or plunder?
 
As for warfare, you have a point? Its not like the Old Testatment is the only religious book sanctioning war is it? And yet, it is seen as a racist book.
 
Despite the fact that Israel's greatest King, King David was not a pure Hebrew but a quarter Moabite...yes, a Moabite, another of Israel's enemies. And, according to the belief that Messiah will descend from King David, that means the Jewish Messiah is not purely Hebrew either.
 
Moreover, the Torah makes provision for war, and for peace as well. It only appears that way if you selectively read certain passages.
 
Look at it this way, a person selectively reading the Quran would think its a violent religion, but unless they read it in its entirety, they would not get an accurate picture. So to OghuzKhan, watch your comments....
 
 
 
 


Edited by Nestorian - 15-Aug-2006 at 00:13
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Posts: 186 		  Quote PrznKonectoid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2006 at 22:31
 
 
The fact that some Jews are partially negroid is not in dispute, but by and large jews are Caucasiod. Even some of the Negroid jews retain partial Hebrew blood (like the Lemba).
 
As a people the Jews generally have tended not to mix with local populations, therefore retaining most of their genetics. Of course there has there been some intermixing, some genetic sharing, yeah. But that goes for any race, by and large the gene pool of most Jews (with a few exceptions) has remain limited and not much intermixing.
 
Of course various Jewish populations like the Ashkenazi and the Mizrahi, and the Sephardic have tended to slight genetic drift living apart for thousands of years, but these differences are disappearing in Israel where they are mixing once again.


Edited by PrznKonectoid - 07-Aug-2006 at 22:31
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Posts: 2888 		  Quote Emperor Barbarossa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2006 at 19:35
That is true, the Old Testament is very racial supremacist ("We, God's 'Chosen People' have a right to rape, plunder, and murder other peoples as we wish.") However, most Jews are not racists.

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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Aug-2006 at 19:17
jew's think race because themselves holy book's racist.
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2006 at 10:35
As the man says,
 
Most Jews are Caucasoid, many Negroid, some Mongloid, quite a few mixed and who's to say there isn't the odd Australoid.
 
There is Baal teshuva Judaism, Haredi Judaism, Rabbinical Judaism, Liberal Judaism, Reform Judaism, Kabbalah, to name but a few.
 
I think the answer is, Judaism in neither 'a' race nor 'a' religeon.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06-Aug-2006 at 01:17
Jews are caucasoids. Jews are also Negroids. So no its not a race.
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Posts: 8 		  Quote Svantoretro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2006 at 23:58
As I understand it from an article written by a Jew, you are correct...it is both a race, and a religion.
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Posts: 965 		  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2006 at 17:10
Originally posted by Exarchus

They are the chosen ones, so they're a race (sarcasm).
 
Funny! (sarcasm).
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They are the chosen ones, so they're a race (sarcasm).
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2006 at 15:32
The term jew is like a car that can also span out wings and begin to fly.
It has too be used relatively.
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Posts: 7035 		  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05-Aug-2006 at 05:07
Once upon a time, of course, race and religion tended to be synonymous. You believed what your parents and family believed, which is what the rest of the tribe believed.
 
That's even true in the classical world, when at one time 'Greek', 'Persian', 'Roman' and 'Egyptian' all referred to peoples and to 'their' religions. I guess the two started to get separated in the aftermath of the Alexandrian empire, and during the Roman empire, especially after the adoption of Mithraism and Christianity, which were possibly the first two religions to profess themelves as being for all peoples.
(I won't argue that 'first' if someone comes up with something earlier.)
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