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Einstein given too much credit.

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  Quote Azadi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Einstein given too much credit.
    Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 12:27
And here I thought he got too little recognition LOL
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2012 at 12:13
Does no one remember Gregor Timoshenkov?
 
 
 
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2012 at 08:11
No man,They waste time with useful tech cause of wrong economic model!Solution:Snail like Houses with super insulation abilities and recycling water&air produced with nanotechnology!Implanted solar plant house above and food all in one as some Russian scientists suggest(broth with all ingredients!).It looks as lunatic dream today but..Hope will be soon.I agree about fetish models&values,we have created during those several thousands  of years.SmileRegards...
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  Quote Georgiyman25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2012 at 01:26
I agree with you, I personally think technology will soon destroy us and we will go back to how we are supposed to live.  I actually think technology hinders us and makes us lazy and stupid in a lot of ways. Because it does all the thinking/organizing and so forth for us. I used to be an Athiest/Materialist..But after getting laid off and having all this free time to do some deep searching, I have realized that there is much more to life than what meets the eye. By the way, the worst of worst are celebrities.. They are being treated as gods and it is pathetic. But they are the number one tools for commercials to selling and advertising garbage. If Bieber wears these funky looking glasses, then so will 50 other million..So sad.. Television is one evil invention. I kind of wander if the 3D I-max theaters will be even better tools to use for subliminal messaging and mind control than the 2D screens? I think Tesla deserves far more credit then Einstein or equal amount. Tesla was by far more intelligent then Einstein. So was Walter Russell. Who NO one has ever heard of. Yet he was able to produce cosmic consciousness kind of like Shakespeare and few others.
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  Quote Georgiyman25 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15-Oct-2012 at 01:07
Wait a minute now sir.. I think you are forgetting about this one great man. Mr. Tesla?
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Oct-2006 at 06:59
Newton's contribution were far better.
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  Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-Jul-2006 at 05:36
Originally posted by Roadkill

 
 -Quantum theory became a hot topic of discussion amongst Bohr and Einstein with Bohr saying "it works" and Einstein saying "it's incomplete". Einstein did not dismiss the theory, he merely saw it as unfinished and used the remainder of his years fiddling around the the theory of everything, a theory that would unify quantum and relativity theory(That's one thing he didn't complete though).
 
 
And Godel demonstrated to Albert that Completness and Incompletness are both required in order to be consistent.
 
Any theory is incomplete just because (roughly speaking) it cannot explain itself.
 
Albert is not overrated. The bad thing is that he is viewed as some sort of Superman. Something like Albert Einstein=Captain Science.
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  Quote Odin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-Jul-2006 at 21:00
Originally posted by Pieinsky

I think natural scientists are given too much credit compared to social sciences, artists of all types.
 
Social scientists allow us to understand human nature, which is key to happiness, I cant believe it, your well versed in the area of history yet you don't realise that societies were greatly defined by their understanding of the human psyce. I thought the purpose of life was to enjoy it as much as one can while taking  a substatial amount of consideration to others who deserve it. Technollogy alone is not the only factor that determines human happiness.
  Many nation share an equal technological level but some are more culturally backwards then others. What the hells the point of a country who is evile by definition(more evile then neighbours) building nuclear warheads when its people are psycotic, insesitive, question with red lights to a high degree. technollogy is not as important as it is conventially believed to be by humans. I rather have lived amongst the celts who were culturally superior to the vikings then the vikings who were technollogical superior but culturally inferior to the celts. However certain technologies allow certain cultural advancements.Smile
 
I am sick of great natural scientists and great mathamatitions being made into Gods while great humans who dedicated their lives to other area's are made seem less important then natural scientists. Smile
 
As far as I'm concerned, the social sciences are nothing more then applied biology.
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-Jul-2006 at 10:04
 
Originally posted by edgewaters


True, but without Minkowski there would be no space-time to curve!      
Originally posted by Chilbudios

And without Christoffel, Ricci or Riemann there wouldn't be any maths to create such theories Smile
 
Both of course correct.
 
That's why I was a little careful in what I wrote.
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  Quote Gundamor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 22:35
Originally posted by lennel


I'd like to throw in thecomment as to inevitability and einstein. We credit him, but generally speaking scientists have many less-famous contemporaries who are working on the same subject. Essentially, if one guy didn't invent it then 5 yrs later another would have. We would still have electrical lighting or recorded music, without edison. We'd have airflight without the wright bros. etc.


    
I've read this too and believe it but it doesnt deny Einstein came up with these things when he did.

This months discover is pretty interesting Mordehai Milgrom has some new theories that go against Einsteins.
"An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind"
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  Quote Roadkill Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 21:24
 -What I meant with the statement quoted above is that Niels Bohr who was instrumental in the field of quantum mechanics and who's theory(ies) led to the ability to build small transistors(Amongst other things, transistors stick out in my memory) who then enabled all digital items to be smaller and more complex, allowing the equipment I am typing on now to become reality. His theory spawned from discussions on relativity with Einstein and his theory and that's what I mean. If the theory of relativity had not been around Bohr would not have had the "information" to propose his theory. That's what I meant.

 -Quantum theory became a hot topic of discussion amongst Bohr and Einstein with Bohr saying "it works" and Einstein saying "it's incomplete". Einstein did not dismiss the theory, he merely saw it as unfinished and used the remainder of his years fiddling around the the theory of everything, a theory that would unify quantum and relativity theory(That's one thing he didn't complete though).

 -And lennel, you're correct. However, we must give them credit nonetheless, eh? Fame and recognition is quite a driving force...
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
-- Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
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  Quote lennel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 15:52
Originally posted by edgewaters

Originally posted by Roadkill

Just about any electrical equipment we use today exists due to Einstein's theories.


Eh? Relativity doesn't come into play very much with electronics. If there's a fellow who's primarily responsible for modern electrical equipment, it's Tesla.
    
 
I'd like to throw in the comment as to inevitability and einstein.  We credit him, but generally speaking scientists have many less-famous contemporaries who are working on the same subject.  Essentially, if one guy didn't invent it then 5 yrs later another would have.  We would still have electrical lighting or recorded music, without edison.  We'd have airflight without the wright bros. etc.
 
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 13:33
Originally posted by Imperator Invictus

I don't see how you can dismiss Einstein's work as simply "elaborations" because I can also claim that Tesla's work was simply an elaboration of earlier works, like those of Maxwell's.


I'm not dismissing it, merely putting Einstein among rather than undeservedly far above his colleagues. Have I said that he is less than them? Tesla I only named as a viable competitor, particularly because his science had alot of influence on our everyday world and technology around us.

I think you also understate the importance of relativity, esepcially general relativity. It is one of the most important cornerstones of modern astrophysics.


Yes, it's very important in astrophysics, but what about other discoveries, like gravitational attraction, space-time, etc? They are at least as fundamental and revolutionary. The problem with Einstein-worship is that it vastly diminishes other contributions.

You have to follow the thread from the beginning to understand the context. Nothing Einstein did has anything to do with the development of television and computers (see earlier posts in the thread). The theoretical science behind these developments was mostly developed from the late 1700s through to the 1800s. From there in, it was principally engineering.



Maybe it's not practical right now, but in another century, when we do a lot of space-related stuff, that's when Einstein's theory will come into place.


The context originally was an answer to a claim that Einstein was responsible for "electrical equipment" and "televisions and computers" which he is not in any way, at the present time.

As far as its future practical applications - maybe. Maybe not. Who knows? By then, there will undoubtedly be even more developments (there already have been, in fact) - will we have to diminish them too, to maintain the cult of Einstein, science-deity?
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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 09:57
I don't see how you can dismiss Einstein's work as simply "elaborations" because I can also claim that Tesla's work was simply an elaboration of earlier works, like those of Maxwell's. And just as so, it would be like saying Shakspeare's work was simply an elaboration of a language.

I think you also understate the importance of relativity, esepcially general relativity. It is one of the most important cornerstones of modern astrophysics.

You have to follow the thread from the beginning to understand the context. Nothing Einstein did has anything to do with the development of television and computers (see earlier posts in the thread). The theoretical science behind these developments was mostly developed from the late 1700s through to the 1800s. From there in, it was principally engineering.

Maybe it's not practical right now, but in another century, when we do a lot of space-related stuff, that's when Einstein's theory will come into place. Smile
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  Quote Chilbudios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 09:04
And without Christoffel, Ricci or Riemann there wouldn't be any maths to create such theories Smile
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 07:33
Originally posted by gcle2003

He did a whole lot more than that. The whole concept of the gravity-related curvature of thespace-time continuum is owed to Einstein.


True, but without Minkowski there would be no space-time to curve!
    
    

Edited by edgewaters - 19-Jul-2006 at 07:36
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 06:31
 
Originally posted by edgewaters

 However, relativity was understood for quite some time - since Galileo.

 
True. Einstein didn't invent the concept of relativity (which actually had been around since well before Galileo), what he did was elaborate a theory (or two) 'of relativity' which produced predictions that ran counter to earlier ones and proved more accurate.
 
'Of relativity' is really a misnomer for Einstein's theories. The foundation of the Special Theory is actually the constancy of the speed of light (i.e. the surprising fact that it is NOT relative to the observer) so it would perhaps better be called the Special Theory of NON-Relativity. And the foundation of the General Theory is the equivalence of gravity and acceleration, leading to a geometric interpretation of gravity, so arguably that would better be called the General Theory of Gravity.
 
All Einstein did, in effect, was propose that it be applied to electromagnetic effects, in order to reconcile Maxwell's electromagnetic theories with Galilean relativism.
 
He did a whole lot more than that. The whole concept of the gravity-related curvature of the space-time continuum is owed to Einstein. Modern cosmology would be nowhere without Einstein.
 
And the problem was not reconciling Maxwell with Galileo, it was with reconciling Michelson-Morley - the constant speed of light - with Galileo. Galileo's and Newton's beliefs about relativity assumed all motion was relative. What Einstein had to do was demonstrate why that was - from observation - not true.
 
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 19-Jul-2006 at 06:34
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  Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 06:17
 
Originally posted by Pieinsky

I'd like to know if you would like this world if suddenly it became devoid of sociologists, anthropologists, psycologists, actors, militery stratigists and political leaders, Empathy my friends is of great importance to a speices, our speices would not have existed up to this point if it wasnt for our great psycoanalytical ability as well as the excedingly brilliant psycoanalytical ability of small subset in our speices popules from its dawn to now.
Personally I am quite disgusted by some of you at the moment. It is transparent to me that some of you have been absorbed into the convention of the perception of what the most usefull intelligince is. If you had been born during the the renaisance period in Italy you probably would have thought that the natural sciences were of little importance in comparison to art.
Not if you were Leonardo you wouldn't. Or even Drer. The Renaissance in the visual arts marks significant steps forward in chemistry, anatomy and in optics, particularly the study of persepective.
 I find it difficult to believe how little you understand societies have be formated by its power elite understanding of human behaviour . Do you think Hitler would have been able to gather so much power which eventually led to the rise of the nazi party and the extermination of many jews if it were not for his understanding that he could unite his followers under him by creating for them a common enemy .
What's that got to do with anything? No, he probably couldn't. So what? All it does it show what skilled practitioners of the social sciences the Nazis were.
 
Instead of going on about the relative importance of various sciences, just name someone you think has done as much in the social sciences in the last 100-odd years as Einstein did in physics.
 
The two other modern figures who have achieved the same kind of eminence in their day are Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud. Neither of them have had anything like as dominant or lasting an effect in their fields as Einstein (though at one time they seemed to come close).
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 19-Jul-2006 at 06:18
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  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 02:43

 

Originally posted by Imperator Invictus


Even without relativity, Einstein would still be one of the greatest scientists. He was one of the most important contributors to Quantum mechanics when the field was in its beginning.

Outside of relativity, he was one of several dozen individuals ... and hardly the most profound of those. Bohr, Heisenberg, Planck ... Einstein is certainly no more important than any of these. One of the most important contributors, OK, if you extend the group you call "the most important" to include dozens of individuals. Even in terms of just photoelectric effect, Einstein did little but elaborate a small bit on the work of others; it was originally known as the "Hertz effect", after Hertz, who laid down the foundation for its understanding.

I think your argument relates to the issue of science vs. engineering. I don't see how citing those men weakens the case for Einstein since their accomplishments are in a different category.

You have to follow the thread from the beginning to understand the context. Nothing Einstein did has anything to do with the development of television and computers (see earlier posts in the thread). The theoretical science behind these developments was mostly developed from the late 1700s through to the 1800s. From there in, it was principally engineering.

In terms of scientific theory, those three men do not compare to Einstein.

   
I don't know. Tesla is a good competitor. He was *not* just an engineer. Not only did he do work on many properties of electricity, he contributed a great deal to electromagnetic theory, atomic physics, even ballistics and other elements of classical physics. I think his work is in more practical fields with immediate application, and less amenable as material for the armchair philosopher and psychedelic dreamer than relativism. Also Tesla managed to turn his one-time fame into disrepute as he degenerated into insanity in his later years, speaking of impossible death rays and geomagnetic weapons, whereas Einstein was very cautious (though unproductive and critical of all new theory) in his later years.

However, relativity was understood for quite some time - since Galileo. All Einstein did, in effect, was propose that it be applied to electromagnetic effects, in order to reconcile Maxwell's electromagnetic theories with Galilean relativism.

The early fundamental concepts like wave-particle duality and the photoelectric effect are all accredited to Einstein.

Photoelectric effect - once known as Hertz effect - was just elaborated on by Einstein (whose elaboration was only one of many later revisions, including the much later Compton effect). So he neither discovered the basis of it, nor did he resolve it fully. He made a contribution, like alot of other scientists did. Later ones made equally signifigant contributions to wave-particle duality, for instance de Broglie, who proposed that all matter and energy exhibited properties of both wave and particle, not just light.

Even in quantum physics alone, Einstein should not be the quanta deity: there are simply too many others, Planck, Heisenberg, Schroedinger, Bohr, de Broglie, whose contributions are at least equally important (if not, in some cases, more important). Einstein was simply amenable to pop culture status.

 
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  Quote Imperator Invictus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-Jul-2006 at 00:45
Even without relativity, Einstein would still be one of the greatest scientists. He was one of the most important contributors to Quantum mechanics when the field was in its beginning. The early fundamental concepts like wave-particle duality and the photoelectric effect are all accredited to Einstein.

In terms of our modern technology, I would really have to say Tesla, Marconi and Bell are the fathers of the modern world


I think your argument relates to the issue of science vs. engineering. I don't see how citing those men weakens the case for Einstein since their accomplishments are in a different category. In terms of scientific theory, those three men do not compare to Einstein.


Edited by Imperator Invictus - 19-Jul-2006 at 00:45
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