The future of Karabakh

Karki (also known as Kyarki or Tigranashen) is an exclave of Azerbaijan's Nakhichevan Autonomous Republic. It is part of the Sadarak rayon and is completely surrounded by Armenia and has been controlled by it since its invasion during the Nagorno-Karabakh War in May 1992. The main highway connecting northern Armenia with southern Armenia passes right by this village. Today, the village is mostly inhabited by Armenians due to a forceful population exchange between Armenia and Azerbaijan during the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. It has been renamed Tigranashen by the Armenian government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karki_(Azerbaijan)

lol


Edited by mamikon - 23-Aug-2006 at 11:50

     Incase you missed what I said about the origins of this conflict, Nakhichevan was part of Armenia's first republic before Stalin's unjust annexation to Azerbaijan, which also saw Karabakh pass into the hands of the Azeri authority. At the time of transfer around half of Nakhichevan's population was Armenian. What happened to these people under Azeri administration? Note that the exclave you mentioned (how big is this area anyway?) is inhabited by local Armenians and refugees driven out of Azerbaijan during the 1988 pogroms. Yes, 1988, before any Armenian aggression towards Azerbaijan. The Azeri authorities did nothing to stop mobs of Azeris going around looting Armenian businesses and driving Armenians from their homes in Sumgait, Kirovabad, Baku, and anywhere in Azerbaijan where Armenians were living. Low and behold, the Soviet army itself had to disarm Azeri militias carrying out the pogroms because Azerbaijan couldn't be bothered to stop the Ottoman-esque policy towards Armenians.

     We can either point fingers all day or we can talk about Karabakh.

Originally posted by bg_turk The rest of the Azeri villages were occupied around the same time, but there are not many online sources for this. I am sure you can ask some knowledgeable person about the occupation, and they will confirm the time. Armenia was the first to attack and occupy Azeri terrtiory.

     Given as world opinion strongly favors Azerbaijan in this conflict, don't you think there would be more online sources in their favor than for the Armenian side? Wouldn't anything exploitable already be exploited seeing as their arguments are more favored by the international community? Or maybe the world supports Azerbaijan for other reasons...oil...a thorn in the side of Iran...its political gravitation away from Russia.....etc...things that have nothing to do with the Armenian conflict in other words.

Originally posted by mamikon Exactly....your quote from www.answers.com, comes directly from wikipedia...

ok, here is another non-wikipedia pro-Armenian source:

http://www.cilicia.com/rediscover.pl?action=browse&id=Ararat_Marz&revision=4

Tigranashen, until 1990 the Azerbaijani enclave of Kyarki, S of the road, is now inhabited by a mixture of local Armenians and refugees from Azerbaijan.

The Azeri embassy says:

http://www.azerbembassy.org.cn/eng/back_chron.html

1990 January 13 - As a result of the armed attacks Armenians occupied the village of Karki in Nakhchivan AR.

Another Azeri source:

http://gateway.az/cgi-bin/cl2_gw/browse.cgi?lang=en&topic=000e0401

the Soviet Amy marched into Baku and committed a bloodshed on January 19, 1990. 8 hours due to bloodshed in Baku the Russian-Armenian combined military troops captured the village Karki in Nakhchyvan Autonomous Republic and made attack along the boundary.

So, it seems Kyarki was captured in black January (as Azeri Turks call it [1]) 1990, and not in 1989, or in 1992. So the point remains that Armenia was the first to violate Azeri soveregnity and was the first to initiate the hostilies.

[1] http://www.january20.net/

Originally posted by mamikon Also, note that it says the town is now inhabited by Armenians and Azeries.

That's not true.

Originally posted by mamikon from your own source: Tigranashen, until 1990 the Azerbaijani enclave of Kyarki, S of the road, is now inhabited by a mixture of local Armenians and refugees from Azerbaijan.

meaning Armenian refugees from Azerbaijan, not Azeri Turks.

yeah...it would have been a lot better for Armenia to give up Karabakh...and in a couple fo years Zangezur and in another couple of years cease to exist.

The situation in Armenia is not as bad as you would hope...Armenia apart from Belarus and the Baltic states is the only SU state to surpass it's 1986 GDP


Edited by mamikon - 27-Aug-2006 at 17:27

     The common people in Armenia support the Karabakh Armenians. If you put the most random Armenian in charge of the country, their position on the Karabakh issue will be the same (in fact its one of the only things that the ruling class and common people see eye-to-eye on). So it is not a matter of land-grabbing, it is a matter of justice. The Soviets took Karabakh and Nakhichevan from Armenia and put the Azeri administration in charge. The Armenians of Nakhichevan were subsequently erased from the region, and for 70 years, Azerbaijan's only region with an Armenian majority (Karabakh) has lived in abject poverty due to administrative neglect. They asked for secessions diplomatically and peacefully for decades, even while under Soviet rule. Azerbaijan responded by not only keeping them in abject poverty for decades through administrative neglect, but  by having a pogrom of the entire Armenian population of Azerbaijan in 1988 and occupying Karabakh militarily. Thus, the administration in Azerbaijan clearly does not seek peaceful ways of solving the problem (and even according to your view on the Armenian government, which more or less matches my own view, Azerbaijan's is not better by any means). Prosperity only comes when Azerbaijan gets off occupied lands handed to them by the Soviet imperialists AND recognizes them as not part of their nation. Only then will refugees from BOTH sides be able to return and normal trade between all countries of the region can resume.

Originally posted by TheDiplomat the hateful,militaristic dominant class in Armenia which numble the common people  with Anti-Turkish rhetoric and glorification of more territory like Karabakh and Eastern Turkey

     Turkey and Turks are not even spoken of in Armenia, let alone in a negative light. I think you're confusing Karabakh with the rest of Armenia. While Karabakh-Armenians and Armenians of the ROA regard each other as brothers and countrymen, their mentality and psyche is very different from one another. I'm sure those Azeris who were unfortunate enough to fight Armenians don't have many nice things to say about Armenians either. Its natural, they were at war, and all thats stopping them from more war is an uneasy ceasefire. We need real solutions to the problem. The only real one is Karabakh's secession from Azerbaijan (the reasons which I gave above). Only then can borders be opened and refugees  be returned.

     Just because the rulers and people see eye-to-eye, doesn't automatically mean the people are blinded. Did you not read anything else I wrote about the actual conflict?

     And by giving Karabakh back to Azerbaijan we will only subject Armenians to a government who neglected them for 70 years, carried out pogroms against them, and occupied them militarily, all in order to support the Soviet policy of divide and conquer and to increase the Azeri elites' sphere of influence. On what grounds should Karabakh be put under Azeri rule? I mean besides the hypocritical territorial integrity excuse. Its hypocritical because no one respected Armenia's territorial integrity when they took regions from their country and gave them to Azerbaijan, so you cannot use that as an excuse to have Karabakh under Azeri rule.

Hi, I'm one of men who's more pro Azeri not Armenia (I've got my reasons), but to be honest that region is more likely to be armenian than Azer,  they've got no business there to do so Azeri people'd better accept Karabakh under Armenian boardership!