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Israel army launches Gaza assault |
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docyabut 
Colonel 
Joined: 11-Jan-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 527 |
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 Topic: Israel army launches Gaza assaultPosted: 28-Jun-2006 at 23:54 |
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There would have been a two state 'solution' long time ago when the UN offer the Palestinians a state, Israel took the offer , but the Palestinians did not. I am not saying what is wrong or right, however you` d think the people would be tried after all of the years of killing of their children, and would want to make a better life for them in the future by some solution of peace and living.
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cattus
Arch Duke 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1803 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 03:28 |
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Just to make it clear,docyabut, it would probably be more accurate to say that Arabs turned down the offer. Palestinians as we call them today did not come about until the mid sixties.
Here, read it. As you will see, Hamas will only agree to the boundaries that you asked for until the Israelis get 0%. http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/hamas.htm |
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malizai_
Sultan 
Alcinous Joined: 05-Feb-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2252 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 06:08 |
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Cattus Whcih part didnt you understand, it is of secondary importance, y, because palestenian land was forcefully colonized by Zionists, bringing in jewish settlers from all over the world for the settlement program. It is a very basic issue of land, misappropriation of Palestenian land. The palestenians although not in a position to halt or reverse this trend, have not really accepted it either. Y should they? I wouldnt mind peacefully coexisting with you, if you gave me half of your house and the use of your car. I am sure you wouldnt want me to have 0% of your assets, provisions or utilities. Edited by malizai_ - 29-Jun-2006 at 06:15 |
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pikeshot1600
Tsar 
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 08:07 |
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The Arab states, some with vast oil wealth, have done nothing to found a Palestinian "state" or in fact to support the Palestinians. They have, for the most part, insured keeping the Palestinians in the condition they have been in in order to deflect their own populations from internal problems and from broken promises. It's ALL Israel's fault, don't you see? All the problems of the Middle East are the fault of someone else...Jews; America; Europe.
Very convenient, that. Why is it that Palestinians have had to be financed by welfare from Europe and (of all places) from Israel? Where is the wealth of the medieval Saudi-Wahabbi kingdom? All that Islamic charity? Oh, I forgot. Islamic charity goes for jihad these days.
What about non-Arab Palestinian supporters? What about all that oil revenue Iran is booking? Oh, how forgetful of me! That goes for Hezbollah, and for nuclear masturbation. None left for Palestinians.
What a load of crap.
It is no wonder that the conception in the West is of a malfunctioning set of Middle Eastern cultures, wallowing in violence, unable to accomodate modern ideas, unwilling to acknowledge the reality of Israel, and able to contribute only hatred and religious superstition to the world.
Too bad. I doubt that any change is possible, and the IDF will have to continue to kick ass when the interests of Israel are impacted.
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azimuth
Caliph 
SlaYer'S SlaYer Joined: 12-Dec-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2979 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 08:07 |
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yea before the mid sixties Palestinians were in mid russia.
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cattus
Arch Duke
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1803 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 12:34 |
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The terminology
Yep, I guess so. Hamas resists Israel recognition ..evidently there is simply no room for an Israeli state whatsoever. |
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pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 12:47 |
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Israel IS an accomplished fact with the ability to protect herself. There may no longer be any room for the Palestinians if that soldier is not returned. Their pretend state will never be more than scattered refugee camps, remaining unfunded by all their oil soaked "brothers."
According to Google, the 18 year old hitchhiker has been found dead.
And I think the heads of Hamas in Syria are now walking dead men. Mossad knows how to approach problems like them. I wish we were not as squeamish as we are about such things.
Edited by pikeshot1600 - 29-Jun-2006 at 13:05 |
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pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 12:53 |
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As an additional thought, if Assad does not wake up and smell the coffee, there may be "regime change" in Syria as well as Iraq. One Israeli military operation at a time. There is no longer any Soviet regime to threaten intervention, and Syria has no friends. Syria has done nothing but undermine the Iraq operation anyway, and the Assad family has only survival as a policy, so they need something else to occupy their attention for as long as they last.
All this futility in trying to accomodate for the last 40 years has, and is failing. The Israelis may have decided that the only possibility for a resolution is an imperative to destroy Hamas. Hezbollah and the Teheran monkey men may be getting a message as well.
I don't see anyone buzzing Olmert's residence with sonic booms. Oh, and who is it who HAS the nukes?
Edited by pikeshot1600 - 29-Jun-2006 at 13:04 |
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pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 17:54 |
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In another thread that was closed as redundant, one forumer asked why there was "collective punishment" of Palestinians in the destruction of power facilities, etc. in the current military action in Gaza.
Who voted for Hamas? If those people want to avoid the consequences of spitting in the face of forces far stronger than themselves, they need to have greater care in the political representatives they elect. Hamas, as so many other Arab "political" movements, has no backing other than the outraged editorials of leftist journalists. Their military weapon of choice is to convince people to kill themselves so that leadership can continue to live pampered existences far from the scenes of conflict. Pathetic, really.
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malizai_
Sultan
Alcinous Joined: 05-Feb-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2252 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 20:19 |
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I hear the chicken hawks fluttering their wings again. If there is one thing that i have learned from the Spanish episode, starring the Moors, is that the process of colonization is reversible. I dont think that israel is going to last 800 yrs. EDIT:Disregarding the Arab impotence, it may be said that the powers that have kept the cronies in power in Arab lands are the very same forces that have kept this Mediterranean 'colony' in existence. Therefore one shouldn't expect them to voice concern for the Palestinian, unless they can draw political mileage from it. BT, Hamas is severely infiltrated by mossad agents. So the israelis are well aware of all the intrigues of Hamas and have the capability i would argue to shape thier own, if need be. Edited by malizai_ - 29-Jun-2006 at 22:54 |
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pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 21:02 |
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Er, what exactly did you say here?
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cattus
Arch Duke
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1803 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 23:26 |
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Exactly, if these kids are harmed.. who will be blamed? 
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azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer Joined: 12-Dec-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2979 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 01:51 |
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its there hunderds of years before "mid sixties", that land is called Palestine and people living in it called Palestinians and that included the Jews and the Christians.
yea sure Israel has the "right" to protect it self and its people according to the West, and ignoring that SO DOES the Palestinians has the right to defend themselvs, clearly the Israelis dont give a damn about Palestinains security, the palestinians civilians deaths are double the Israelis/
and for your information Palestinians dont have a state and they are already living in a scattered refugee camps, so basically they dont have much to lose.
intersting how Israel take more lands into its control and inject Jewish sattelments in the West bank and Golan hights each time its "Protecting" it self.
not to mention them lying about the WMD they have.
the Crusades Occupied that land for more than 100 years and iam sure there were times they thought they will be there forever, Israel is there for 58 years, so still around 40 years for them to break the cursades record
Edited by azimuth - 30-Jun-2006 at 01:52 |
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cattus
Arch Duke
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1803 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 03:49 |
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As I said, the Palestinians as we call or know today is a modern construct. This national identity did not exist before the state of Israel. A people called Palestinians have never controlled that region nor have ever had any collective ownership of that land. But ofcourse this does not change that there are people that have families that have lived in the area for centuries on both sides.
How does Israel, whether you dislike it or not, deal with Hamas which wants 100% of that land. Land that is not all theirs? |
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Leonidas
Tsar
Joined: 01-Oct-2005 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 4613 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 05:52 |
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lets not infer that the isreali's have been equally living in that space with arabs for a equal amount of time, as far as i know before all off these modern 'contructs' there was only ever a marginal jewish presence and a very large arabic presence. Nor is the land been divided along those lines.
how do the palistinians deal with a country that wants the best bits for itself? Edited by Leonidas - 30-Jun-2006 at 05:54 |
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azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer Joined: 12-Dec-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2979 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 07:34 |
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Palestinians are people who live in a land called Palestine. that land is known as Palestine for hundreds of centuries. how can this be a modern construct lol.
its like Egyptians are the people living in Egypt, modern or ancient they are Egyptians because they live in Egypt and they identify themselves as people from that land.
its not a matter of ethnicity,
even if you have a "theory" about who are Palestinians, i don't think that would in anyway support the current state of Israel, Hebrews who became Jews know that they were slaves in Egypt and they conquered Palestine and ruled in it for around 400 years and then became slaves again but in Babylonia, so the "control" factor is irrelevant and not a reason for anything that would support the current state of Israel which is not a Hebrew nation, its a Jewish nation speaks Hebrew.
they say their origin from their ( the truth they think God gave them this land), in the orgin thing they also believe that their father is Jacob whos father is Issac whos father is Abraham who was BORN IN IRAQ.
so both the origin and the God gave them that land factors are irrelevant because the origin isn't true as they know that Abraham was born in Iraq ,but try to make sound like its their origin to the west, the God gave them that land is also unacceptable to the secular modern west ( but really Israelis believes its their land because God said so not because they invaded it 3000 years ago and controlled it for the first 400 years)
to make it simple Palestinian for the Palestinians whatever their religion or ethnicity, Arabs, Hebrews, Muslims, Christians and Jews.
Turks who converted to judaism has no right to that land, people who left that land 1000s of years ago has no right to come and claim others land, if so then Irish Americans can go to ireland and take the lands of the people living their and say we were here before, the same goes with south Americans the same goes for many other nations.
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now about Hamas,
Hamas just had control over the government in a Democratic election approved by the UN, Hamas is willing to negotiate peace while the arrogant Israel and its allies refused on the bases that hamas is Terrorist organisation do not recognise Israel and wont drop their weapons.
well i see that they have full rights to do so, since Israel has been stealing their lands and controlling their lives for the past 50 years and Do no recognise any state called Palestine and bring its tanks and weapons into Palestinians land anytime they want, destroy schools, houses and refugee tanks " looking for terrorist", well if they are looking for terrorist they should look at a mirror.
and don't look at what hamas want as black and white, they know and saw how fatah for tens of years compromised their lands and rights and still did not get any state, at the contrary they lost land.
they have not much to lose really, STILL they are willing to negotiate and Israel is NOT.
again Israel don't want peace, peace to them means less land and less control which is not their goal, Gaza became tiny piece of land with high construction of Palestinians, the west bank "project" is not finished yet , they have more chances to steal and occupy more land so peace now is not what they are looking for.
they got a peace treaty with Egypt by giving back Sinai peninsula, Egypt is big and in the short run Israel wont be able to keep up with them, so to be secure from that side they made the treaty, Syria is smaller and weaker and the location of the Golan Heights is important since from it you can see all Israel, they don't and wont give the Golan Heights back even if that is the only way peace can be achieved with Syria.
so Peace is not an option Israel as a zionist government want , not yet still lots of land to take and people to exhaust and weapons to develop.
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pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 08:25 |
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Azimuth:
Your comment, above to mine, seems to validate my contention that all bad things in the Middle East are blamed on someone other than the peoples of the Middle East.
Your post immediately above seems also to do a hell of a lot of justifying on the part of terrorists. As far as Syria, screw them until they have a government with whom it is worth making peace.
All Arab outrage aside, Israel exists, is a strong power in the region, and you must deal with that. Neither Hamas nor any of the rest of those idiots are going to "push the Jews into the sea" or "wipe Israel off the face of the Earth."
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azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer Joined: 12-Dec-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2979 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 08:56 |
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well "push the Jews into the sea" and wiping stuff are pure BS, Hamas isnt looking forward to do that nor Iran, they are against a Zionist regime not Jews as ethnicity.
if the Jews of Palestine wanted independence they could had it with an area they are majority in, which is tel aviv.
and how can Israel gained the "power ( including WMD)" without the West ( who are not people of the Middle east), so yea people out side the middle east are the one to take big part of the responsibility of whats happening in it. don't you think so?
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about Syria
Its part of their land occupied by Israel and they want it back, very simple and straight forward give them their land and they will have peace. easy.
Israel which is the most powerful and the one with the full support of the US, will act as the strong part and wont give the Golan heights back because simply from it Israel is exposed literally.
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pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 09:01 |
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As far as the absolute culpability of the West, no, frankly I do not think so. We will disagree on that point.
The Golan was the place from where Syria and their creatures shelled Israeli kibutzim (kinda like Gaza). Assad and his regime are unlikely to get it back - ever. When Syria has a responsible government like Jordan and Egypt, more likely, I think. No peace is possible with ASSad.
Edited by pikeshot1600 - 30-Jun-2006 at 13:07 |
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Dampier
Colonel
Joined: 04-Feb-2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 749 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 13:33 |
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Frankly neither of these groups are very nice (as Britain found out when we ruled the place). I'm going to support the innocent civiloians and ignore the rest of these idiots.
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