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Israel army launches Gaza assault |
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malizai_ 
Sultan 
Alcinous Joined: 05-Feb-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2252 |
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 Topic: Israel army launches Gaza assaultPosted: 07-Jul-2006 at 13:06 |
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Here are some selective passages from an analysis of the issue by Jonathon cook. "Under questioning from presenter Jon Snow of Channel Four news on the reasons behind Israel's bombing of Gaza's only power station -- thereby cutting off electricity to more than half of the Strip's 1.3 million inhabitants for many months ahead, as well as threatening the water supply -- Zvi Ravner denied this action amounted to collective punishment of the civilian population.
Rather, he claimed, the electricity station had to be disabled to prevent the soldier's captors from having the light needed to smuggle him out of Gaza at night. It was left to a bemused Jon Snow to point out that smugglers usually prefer to do their work in the dark and that Israel's actions were more likely to assist his captors than disadvantage them."
"The Alice Through the Looking Glass quality of Israeli disinformation over the combined siege and invasion of Gaza -- and its widespread and credulous repetition by the Western media -- is successfully distracting attention from Israel's real goals in this one-sided war of attrition."
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As Israel keeps all eyes directed towards the suffering in Gaza, it is starting to make significant moves in the West Bank and Jerusalem. It is preparing for the much-delayed evacuation of a handful of illegal West Bank hilltop settlements -- known in Israel as "outposts" -- demanded as the first stage of the implementation of the almost-forgotten US-sponsored peace process called the Road Map. "These outposts are tiny, often just a few caravans. It will be much to Israel's advantage if the world fails to examine too closely the miserly act of evacuating these places, which doubtless will later be presented both as Israel having made a huge sacrifice for peace and as having satisfied its side of the Road Map's conditions." "In yet another dose of Alice in Wonderland, Israel's policy of making hostages of these MPs was referred to as "arrests" by the Western media. Few bothered to report that the MPs are being deprived of even their most basic rights, such as meeting with their lawyers.
As the four Jerusalem MPs' lawyers have argued, it is a nonsense that Israel allowed these Hamas politicians to stand in the recent elections and now, after their victory, it calls their membership of the party "support for terrorism". It is also a disturbing sign of how easily Israel will be able to begin ethnically cleansing East Jerusalem of its Palestinian inhabitants using the flimsiest of excuses." read the whole article here-->
Another great article on the media spin.
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malizai_
Sultan
Alcinous Joined: 05-Feb-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2252 |
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Posted: 04-Jul-2006 at 06:42 |
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"Hamas, which advocates Israel's destruction, does not want to lose face by freeing Shalit without getting something in return. Israel says it does not want to set a precedent that could lead to more abductions. "
Looks like it is developed into a battle of wills. Hamas had asked the millitant to release him, previously. It might not happen now. Edited by malizai_ - 04-Jul-2006 at 06:43 |
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malizai_
Sultan
Alcinous Joined: 05-Feb-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2252 |
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Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 09:22 |
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Thoughtless comments. You obviously have got no idea what you are talking about. You dont even know who semites are and who aint.'Pro-zionism or zionists' allways try to equate "Anti-Zionist = anti-Jew" which is the real "smoke screen". Fact of the matter is that jews have been around for thousands of years and zionist are a recent invention, therefore jews/judaism does not equate to zionism. Moses was not a zionist but a Jew. King Soloman was not a zionist but a Jew. Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, Abraham were all semites. "Those who hate Jews are anti-Semites just like Nazis or Imperial Russian pogromiki."
Those who hate jews are jew-haters, not anti-semites. the semites are more than just jews, infact most semites are non-jews. It could be argued that anti-semitism is a defining feature of zionists.
Cultures evolve and co-exist, they dont fail or succeed.
Basic facts:
Not all Jews are zionists. Not all zionists are Jews. There are christian zionists too. ( although their agenda is different)
"What's the number one item on the agenda of the Christian Right? Abortion? School Prayer? No and No. Believe it or not, what's most important to a lot of conservative Christians is the Jewish State. Israel: Its size, its strength, and its survival. Why? " http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/03/60minutes/main524268.shtml http://www.theocracywatch.org/christian_zionism.htm "As a Christian Zionist, I believe that Israel's withdrawal from Gaza--and U.S. support for it--defies God's will." "The members of the Christian Coalition of America are some of the most passionate defenders of Israel in the United States. There's just one catch: they want to convert all Jews to Christianity. Matthew Engel reports on an unholy alliance" http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,820528,00.html Most Jews in palestine are not semites. Jews were in Palestine before the colonization by the zionists.
6000 jews were present in 1525 in the ottoman state more came in from the end of the spanish claiphates including the donmeh escaping purges in Iberia. Here is a list of immigrations since late 1800: I personally dont need a smoke screen, i am openly anti-zionist. Edited by malizai_ - 01-Jul-2006 at 09:23 |
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docyabut
Colonel 
Joined: 11-Jan-2006 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 527 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 22:29 |
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So its really all about religion, not the fact that the people all came from the same stock.
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mamikon
Sultan
Joined: 16-Jan-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2200 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 21:48 |
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Halevi, who posted here for a while, is an example of a Jew who dislikes
the zionist ideals. In fact he said so himself in one of his posts.
Edited by mamikon - 30-Jun-2006 at 21:49 |
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azimuth
Caliph 
SlaYer'S SlaYer Joined: 12-Dec-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2979 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 21:34 |
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how anti-zionist = anti-jew ?
there are jews who are against zionist ideas. so are they jews who are anti jews?
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pikeshot1600
Tsar 
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 20:48 |
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A smoke screen. Anti-Zionist = anti-Jew.
 Those who hate Jews are anti-Semites just like Nazis or Imperial Russian pogromiki.
A resentment of a culture that has failed against a culture that has succeeded.
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azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer Joined: 12-Dec-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2979 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 20:19 |
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anti-Zionist
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pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 20:15 |
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If it is not anti-Semitism, what is it?
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Dampier
Colonel
Joined: 04-Feb-2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 749 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 18:46 |
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Not entirely....if you remember Palestine was always a tricky area and to be fair all the Jews there were a pain in the ass. Its not actually anti semitism.
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malizai_
Sultan
Alcinous Joined: 05-Feb-2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2252 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 16:29 |
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The zionist 'colony' is the realization of the European dream of ridding it self of the Jews. The sooner this is accepted the better. THIS IS WHY WESTERN NATIONS WANT THE ACCEPTANCE OF ISRAELI STATE AT ALL COST AND WOULD BEND OVER BACKWARDS TO KEEP THE STATUS QUO, BECAUSE THE FAILURE OF THE ZIONISTS IS THEIR OWN FAILURE.
The Zionists never thought they were going to be as lucky as they got, reaching their goal so quickly. Initialy they had sought collective temporal refuge in which to amass the jewish diaspora, while continuing with their efforts towards the ultimate goal of creating a state in Palestine.
Towards this initial effort, lands were sought far and away, some of the proposed destinations were Uganda('the Uganda proposal'), Canada, Australia, Current day Iraq, Libya, Angola, Texas. this was done with the blessings of the respective overlords of the respective regions.
There was the "Madagascar Plan" to permanently settle all european jews to island of Madagascar, although the idea was seized upon by Himmler, it is said that the idea was concieved by French/Poles/British. The speculation ended with the Balfour Agreement. "Culpability" is an understatement.
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Dampier
Colonel
Joined: 04-Feb-2006 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 749 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 13:33 |
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Frankly neither of these groups are very nice (as Britain found out when we ruled the place). I'm going to support the innocent civiloians and ignore the rest of these idiots.
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pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 09:01 |
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As far as the absolute culpability of the West, no, frankly I do not think so. We will disagree on that point.
The Golan was the place from where Syria and their creatures shelled Israeli kibutzim (kinda like Gaza). Assad and his regime are unlikely to get it back - ever. When Syria has a responsible government like Jordan and Egypt, more likely, I think. No peace is possible with ASSad.
Edited by pikeshot1600 - 30-Jun-2006 at 13:07 |
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azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer Joined: 12-Dec-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2979 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 08:56 |
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well "push the Jews into the sea" and wiping stuff are pure BS, Hamas isnt looking forward to do that nor Iran, they are against a Zionist regime not Jews as ethnicity.
if the Jews of Palestine wanted independence they could had it with an area they are majority in, which is tel aviv.
and how can Israel gained the "power ( including WMD)" without the West ( who are not people of the Middle east), so yea people out side the middle east are the one to take big part of the responsibility of whats happening in it. don't you think so?
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about Syria
Its part of their land occupied by Israel and they want it back, very simple and straight forward give them their land and they will have peace. easy.
Israel which is the most powerful and the one with the full support of the US, will act as the strong part and wont give the Golan heights back because simply from it Israel is exposed literally.
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pikeshot1600
Tsar
Joined: 22-Jan-2005 Location: United States Online Status: Offline Posts: 4221 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 08:25 |
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Azimuth:
Your comment, above to mine, seems to validate my contention that all bad things in the Middle East are blamed on someone other than the peoples of the Middle East.
Your post immediately above seems also to do a hell of a lot of justifying on the part of terrorists. As far as Syria, screw them until they have a government with whom it is worth making peace.
All Arab outrage aside, Israel exists, is a strong power in the region, and you must deal with that. Neither Hamas nor any of the rest of those idiots are going to "push the Jews into the sea" or "wipe Israel off the face of the Earth."
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azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer Joined: 12-Dec-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2979 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 07:34 |
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Palestinians are people who live in a land called Palestine. that land is known as Palestine for hundreds of centuries. how can this be a modern construct lol.
its like Egyptians are the people living in Egypt, modern or ancient they are Egyptians because they live in Egypt and they identify themselves as people from that land.
its not a matter of ethnicity,
even if you have a "theory" about who are Palestinians, i don't think that would in anyway support the current state of Israel, Hebrews who became Jews know that they were slaves in Egypt and they conquered Palestine and ruled in it for around 400 years and then became slaves again but in Babylonia, so the "control" factor is irrelevant and not a reason for anything that would support the current state of Israel which is not a Hebrew nation, its a Jewish nation speaks Hebrew.
they say their origin from their ( the truth they think God gave them this land), in the orgin thing they also believe that their father is Jacob whos father is Issac whos father is Abraham who was BORN IN IRAQ.
so both the origin and the God gave them that land factors are irrelevant because the origin isn't true as they know that Abraham was born in Iraq ,but try to make sound like its their origin to the west, the God gave them that land is also unacceptable to the secular modern west ( but really Israelis believes its their land because God said so not because they invaded it 3000 years ago and controlled it for the first 400 years)
to make it simple Palestinian for the Palestinians whatever their religion or ethnicity, Arabs, Hebrews, Muslims, Christians and Jews.
Turks who converted to judaism has no right to that land, people who left that land 1000s of years ago has no right to come and claim others land, if so then Irish Americans can go to ireland and take the lands of the people living their and say we were here before, the same goes with south Americans the same goes for many other nations.
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now about Hamas,
Hamas just had control over the government in a Democratic election approved by the UN, Hamas is willing to negotiate peace while the arrogant Israel and its allies refused on the bases that hamas is Terrorist organisation do not recognise Israel and wont drop their weapons.
well i see that they have full rights to do so, since Israel has been stealing their lands and controlling their lives for the past 50 years and Do no recognise any state called Palestine and bring its tanks and weapons into Palestinians land anytime they want, destroy schools, houses and refugee tanks " looking for terrorist", well if they are looking for terrorist they should look at a mirror.
and don't look at what hamas want as black and white, they know and saw how fatah for tens of years compromised their lands and rights and still did not get any state, at the contrary they lost land.
they have not much to lose really, STILL they are willing to negotiate and Israel is NOT.
again Israel don't want peace, peace to them means less land and less control which is not their goal, Gaza became tiny piece of land with high construction of Palestinians, the west bank "project" is not finished yet , they have more chances to steal and occupy more land so peace now is not what they are looking for.
they got a peace treaty with Egypt by giving back Sinai peninsula, Egypt is big and in the short run Israel wont be able to keep up with them, so to be secure from that side they made the treaty, Syria is smaller and weaker and the location of the Golan Heights is important since from it you can see all Israel, they don't and wont give the Golan Heights back even if that is the only way peace can be achieved with Syria.
so Peace is not an option Israel as a zionist government want , not yet still lots of land to take and people to exhaust and weapons to develop.
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Leonidas
Tsar
Joined: 01-Oct-2005 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 4613 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 05:52 |
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lets not infer that the isreali's have been equally living in that space with arabs for a equal amount of time, as far as i know before all off these modern 'contructs' there was only ever a marginal jewish presence and a very large arabic presence. Nor is the land been divided along those lines.
how do the palistinians deal with a country that wants the best bits for itself? Edited by Leonidas - 30-Jun-2006 at 05:54 |
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cattus
Arch Duke 
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1803 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 03:49 |
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As I said, the Palestinians as we call or know today is a modern construct. This national identity did not exist before the state of Israel. A people called Palestinians have never controlled that region nor have ever had any collective ownership of that land. But ofcourse this does not change that there are people that have families that have lived in the area for centuries on both sides.
How does Israel, whether you dislike it or not, deal with Hamas which wants 100% of that land. Land that is not all theirs? |
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azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer Joined: 12-Dec-2004 Location: Neutral Zone Online Status: Offline Posts: 2979 |
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Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 01:51 |
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its there hunderds of years before "mid sixties", that land is called Palestine and people living in it called Palestinians and that included the Jews and the Christians.
yea sure Israel has the "right" to protect it self and its people according to the West, and ignoring that SO DOES the Palestinians has the right to defend themselvs, clearly the Israelis dont give a damn about Palestinains security, the palestinians civilians deaths are double the Israelis/
and for your information Palestinians dont have a state and they are already living in a scattered refugee camps, so basically they dont have much to lose.
intersting how Israel take more lands into its control and inject Jewish sattelments in the West bank and Golan hights each time its "Protecting" it self.
not to mention them lying about the WMD they have.
the Crusades Occupied that land for more than 100 years and iam sure there were times they thought they will be there forever, Israel is there for 58 years, so still around 40 years for them to break the cursades record
 Edited by azimuth - 30-Jun-2006 at 01:52 |
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cattus
Arch Duke
Retired AE Moderator Joined: 02-Aug-2004 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1803 |
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Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 23:26 |
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Exactly, if these kids are harmed.. who will be blamed? 
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