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"Where God does not exist"
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Komnenos View Drop Down
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: "Where God does not exist"
    Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 06:18

An inscription on a gate on a Crusader castle in Bodrum in Turkey has recently caused a bit of a stir:

 

 
The words "Inde Deus Abest" are translated into English as "Where God doesn't exist", not a wholly unfounded claim for a Crusader castle.
 
Apparently the Turkish Minister for Culture has ordered the removal of the inscription, after the Islamist members of the government complained about it, regarding the notion that Allah wasn't omnipresent, even in a Crusader castle, as a religious provocation.
It is now being claimed that the inscription is a very recent addition, made during restauration works in the 1990s, and not medieval at all. Further investigation are undertaken to assert its origin.
 

 
"Where God doesn't exist !"
 
 
(Source: Der Standard ,AUT)


Edited by Komnenos - 16-Jun-2006 at 06:21
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Posts: 952 		  Quote Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 06:54
If the Turkish minister for the inquisition has ordered it remove, how can they investigate further.
 
 
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 08:57
Originally posted by Paul

If the Turkish minister for the inquisition has ordered it remove, how can they investigate further.
 
 
 
 
That's a valid point.
I presume, further investigation first, removal, if initial findings confirmed, second.
Watch this space for further news on this riveting story.
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Posts: 8595 		  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 09:25
If its graffiti from the 1990's then anything goes. Just one of many touristic inscriptions probably made as one passes through the museum with beer in hand. Still needs to be checked for historical veracity nonetheless.
 
If it is an original sign from historical times then leave it be. I hope the  current government doesn't mess this one up.
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Posts: 5711 		  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 10:37
Well there are not many adolescent hooligans who know how to write such phases in Latin, I think this find definitely warrants further investigation to check for authenticity. If it is a fake then remove it, if it is real then it should be left as a piece of the past. If we go around erasing history every time a religious group gets insecure and feels threatened we will have nothing left. Let an investigation take place, deal with the inscription based on whether it is authentic or fake.
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Posts: 778 		  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 12:20

I bet it's a fake.

Besides a better translation would be "from where God is absent" or "from where God is far away."

 
 
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 14:02
Originally posted by Leonardo

I bet it's a fake.

Besides a better translation would be "from where God is absent" or "from where God is far away."

 
 
 
You're probably right, but the official translation at the site gives that version:
 

 
As you can, see the sign has already been taken off.


Edited by Komnenos - 16-Jun-2006 at 14:03
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Posts: 740 		  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 14:04

This story sounds dodgy, perhaps its being exagerated to play in todays trend of Islamophobia.

Anyone that knows about Islam will know that our concept of God already is that God is not everywhere but is above the 7th heavon. Something to think about Wink
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Posts: 8792 		  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 14:05
wouldn't the Byzantines or other christians have removed it themselves?
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Posts: 965 		  Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 14:12
Originally posted by OSMANLI

This story sounds dodgy, perhaps its being exagerated to play in todays trend of Islamophobia.

Anyone that knows about Islam will know that our concept of God already is that God is not everywhere but is above the 7th heavon. Something to think about Wink

 
no actually in islam concept godis everywhere. And it is realy terrible situation for turkey.Our goverment does not know the value of history Angry 
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Posts: 4361 		  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 14:22
Dug up a bit more info:
 
The Latin inscription - Inde deus abest translated as "Where God does not exist" - is carved at the entrance to a dungeon in the Castle of St. Peter in Bodrum, an Aegean resort popular with foreign tourists.
It is believed to have been written by the Knights of St. Peter, a medieval order of crusaders, who built the castle in the fifteenth century and used the dungeon as a torture chamber.

From:     http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal.php?storyID=20060614-024354-2552r

 
Being the inscription over the entrance to a dungeon sounds not only pretty appropriate, but also familiar. I think I have come across thsi before, but can not place it at the moment. Any ideas?


Edited by Komnenos - 16-Jun-2006 at 14:23
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Posts: 740 		  Quote OSMANLI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 14:29
Originally posted by erkut

Originally posted by OSMANLI

This story sounds dodgy, perhaps its being exagerated to play in todays trend of Islamophobia.

Anyone that knows about Islam will know that our concept of God already is that God is not everywhere but is above the 7th heavon. Something to think about Wink

 
no actually in islam concept godis everywhere. And it is realy terrible situation for turkey.Our goverment does not know the value of history Angry 
 
"The Beneficent One, Who is established on the Throne." Sura Taha (20), 5 Wink
 
Which is why iam saying this is an exagerated story to show the so-called Islamic instability in the Turkish Republic
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Posts: 5221 		  Quote Temujin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 17:44
Originally posted by Komnenos

I think I have come across thsi before, but can not place it at the moment. Any ideas?
 
i remember having heard this before too but can't remember where either...
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Posts: 5711 		  Quote Constantine XI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 17:51
Originally posted by Zagros

wouldn't the Byzantines or other christians have removed it themselves?


The Byzantines may never have regained control of the area, or it is possible that if the Byzantines or Armenians did gain control of the building that they could not translate the Latin script. Had a Christian force in control of the castle understood the script, it is almost certain they would have removed it though.
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Posts: 2200 		  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 18:17
howcome it has not been noticed until now?

after all, it is on a gate of a Crusader castle, in a resort detination...
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Posts: 2252 		  Quote malizai_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 13:10
Originally posted by mamikon

howcome it has not been noticed until now?

after all, it is on a gate of a Crusader castle, in a resort detination...
 
I was thinking graffiti for the same reason. We will wait and see.
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Posts: 2967 		  Quote Ponce de Leon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 19:38
Is it really latin? Because the first time i read it to me it sounded German
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Posts: 778 		  Quote Leonardo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 04:48
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

Is it really latin? Because the first time i read it to me it sounded German
 
Yes, it's Latin
 
 
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Posts: 749 		  Quote Dampier Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 16:36
Originally posted by Temujin

Originally posted by Komnenos

I think I have come across thsi before, but can not place it at the moment. Any ideas?
 
i remember having heard this before too but can't remember where either...
 
Spanish Inquisition? Except that doesnt sound right. Hmm, I'm sure I've heard it too.
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Posts: 1231 		  Quote Heraclius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 18:21
 Its definately worthy of an investigation, I echo what others have said already though when I say why has this only now been discovered? seems rather odd its taken so long for anybody to notice.
 
 I'm thinking graffiti abeit rather sophisticated graffiti at the moment, it doesnt look like something you could do in a couple of minutes, far to much for your average vandal. That does to me offer a significant possibility that it is actually medieval, however the fact it has only been recently discovered is rather suspicious.
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