"Where God does not exist"
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Medieval Europe
Forum Discription: The Middle Ages: AD 500-1500
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12761
Printed Date: 28-Apr-2024 at 23:58
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 9.56a - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: "Where God does not exist"
Posted By: Komnenos
Subject: "Where God does not exist"
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 06:18
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An inscription on a gate on a Crusader castle in Bodrum in Turkey has recently caused a bit of a stir:
The words "Inde Deus Abest" are translated into English as "Where God doesn't exist", not a wholly unfounded claim for a Crusader castle.
Apparently the Turkish Minister for Culture has ordered the removal of the inscription, after the Islamist members of the government complained about it, regarding the notion that Allah wasn't omnipresent, even in a Crusader castle, as a religious provocation.
It is now being claimed that the inscription is a very recent addition, made during restauration works in the 1990s, and not medieval at all. Further investigation are undertaken to assert its origin.
"Where God doesn't exist !"
(Source: Der Standard ,AUT) ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Replies:
Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 06:54
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If the Turkish minister for the inquisition has ordered it remove, how can they investigate further.
------------- Light blue touch paper and stand well back http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk - http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk - http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 08:57
That's a valid point.
I presume, further investigation first, removal, if initial findings confirmed, second.
Watch this space for further news on this riveting story. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 09:25
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If its graffiti from the 1990's then anything goes. Just one of many touristic inscriptions probably made as one passes through the museum with beer in hand. Still needs to be checked for historical veracity nonetheless.
If it is an original sign from historical times then leave it be. I hope the current government doesn't mess this one up. ------------- |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 10:37
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Well there are not many adolescent hooligans who know how to write such
phases in Latin, I think this find definitely warrants further
investigation to check for authenticity. If it is a fake then remove
it, if it is real then it should be left as a piece of the past. If we
go around erasing history every time a religious group gets insecure
and feels threatened we will have nothing left. Let an investigation
take place, deal with the inscription based on whether it is authentic
or fake.
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Posted By: Leonardo
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 12:20
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I bet it's a fake. Besides a better translation would be "from where God is absent" or "from where God is far away." |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 14:02
You're probably right, but the official translation at the site gives that version:
As you can, see the sign has already been taken off. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: OSMANLI
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 14:04
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This story sounds dodgy, perhaps its being exagerated to play in todays trend of Islamophobia. Anyone that knows about Islam will know that our concept of God already is that God is not everywhere but is above the 7th heavon. Something to think about -------------  
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 14:05
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wouldn't the Byzantines or other christians have removed it themselves? ------------- |
Posted By: erkut
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 14:12
no actually in islam concept godis everywhere. And it is realy terrible situation for turkey.Our goverment does not know the value of history  ------------- |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 14:22
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Dug up a bit more info:
The Latin inscription - Inde deus abest translated as "Where God does not exist" - is carved at the entrance to a dungeon in the Castle of St. Peter in Bodrum, an Aegean resort popular with foreign tourists.
It is believed to have been written by the Knights of St. Peter, a medieval order of crusaders, who built the castle in the fifteenth century and used the dungeon as a torture chamber. From: http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal.php?storyID=20060614-024354-2552r - http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal.php?storyID=20060614-024354-2552r Being the inscription over the entrance to a dungeon sounds not only pretty appropriate, but also familiar. I think I have come across thsi before, but can not place it at the moment. Any ideas? ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: OSMANLI
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 14:29
"The Beneficent One, Who is established on the Throne." Sura Taha (20), 5
 Which is why iam saying this is an exagerated story to show the so-called Islamic instability in the Turkish Republic -------------
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Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 17:44
i remember having heard this before too but can't remember where either... ------------- |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 17:51
The Byzantines may never have regained control of the area, or it is possible that if the Byzantines or Armenians did gain control of the building that they could not translate the Latin script. Had a Christian force in control of the castle understood the script, it is almost certain they would have removed it though. ------------- |
Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 16-Jun-2006 at 18:17
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howcome it has not been noticed until now?
after all, it is on a gate of a Crusader castle, in a resort detination... ------------- |
Posted By: malizai_
Date Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 13:10
I was thinking graffiti for the same reason. We will wait and see. ------------- |
Posted By: Ponce de Leon
Date Posted: 17-Jun-2006 at 19:38
| Is it really latin? Because the first time i read it to me it sounded German |
Posted By: Leonardo
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 04:48
Yes, it's Latin
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Posted By: Dampier
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 16:36
Spanish Inquisition? Except that doesnt sound right. Hmm, I'm sure I've heard it too. ------------- 
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Posted By: Heraclius
Date Posted: 18-Jun-2006 at 18:21
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Its definately worthy of an investigation, I echo what others have said already though when I say why has this only now been discovered? seems rather odd its taken so long for anybody to notice.
I'm thinking graffiti abeit rather sophisticated graffiti at the moment, it doesnt look like something you could do in a couple of minutes, far to much for your average vandal. That does to me offer a significant possibility that it is actually medieval, however the fact it has only been recently discovered is rather suspicious. ------------- A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough. |
Posted By: kotumeyil
Date Posted: 20-Jun-2006 at 15:04
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Today I read that it was investigated and found out that it's 13 years old (I'm not sure if true). I think removal of it may cause more damage so let it stay. Also it attracted a few thousand tourists last week ------------- [IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg"> |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 20-Jun-2006 at 20:59
Yes, I agree with you abeo, -ire, -ii, itum, go away, depart, leave the latin verb variant Cheers! ------------- |
Posted By: Heraclius
Date Posted: 21-Jun-2006 at 05:37
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If it would cause damage to remove it I say leave it there, its not some scruffy little piece of vandalism I think its quite fitting, whatever the precise translation "where god does not exist" just seems fitting to me. ------------- A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough. |
Posted By: Constantine XI
Date Posted: 21-Jun-2006 at 06:08
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Yea if it's attracting tourists then leave it, it's good for Turkey. In
a few hundred years you can authentically claim it to be a really old
and mysterious inscription
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Posted By: Aelfgifu
Date Posted: 25-Jun-2006 at 08:06
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It can hardly been recently discovered, as not only is there a sturdy gate fixed in the doorway and a handrail fitted to accomodate the doubtless many tourists passing through, which would makr it unlikely no-one ever saw this large red lettering before, also the sign, with translation, shown on the other picture looks as if it has been there for some time, to get all worn like that. But this wouldn't be the first time authorities or religious groups or any other sort of group for that matter, suddenly sees offence in something which had been there in their face all along. So the whole thing about is being offensive sounds a lot like some kind of attention drawing.
that being said. I don't think it looks very old. How many medieval persons would have been able to scratch such neat grafitti on such a difficult and public spot without being noticed? Of course, while writing this, I realized this goes for modern people as well...
 Interesting question, this...But hopefully they wont remove it when it is really old... ------------- 
Women hold their councils of war in kitchens: the knives are there, and the cups of coffee, and the towels to dry the tears. |
Posted By: Heraclius
Date Posted: 27-Jun-2006 at 12:54
Yeah give it a few centuries and they'll say of us "those ancients sure had a sense of humour, poor savages shame they didnt have holodecks like us" ------------- A tomb now suffices him for whom the world was not enough. |
Posted By: Quetzalcoatl
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2006 at 06:20
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One more reason not to let the religious fanatics in. ------------- |
Posted By: kotumeyil
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 14:26
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There is "u" in the script but the Latins were using "v" instead of "u", weren't they? ------------- [IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg"> |
Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 30-Jun-2006 at 15:23
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wasn't this sentence written over torture chambers? ------------- |
Posted By: Leonardo
Date Posted: 01-Jul-2006 at 02:33
In the ancient Roman alphabet there was no "U" but only "V". The "U" and "W" letters were introduced in Middle Ages.
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