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Afghanized Mongols?
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Naimani View Drop Down
Housecarl
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Posts: 36 		  Quote Naimani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Afghanized Mongols?
    Posted: 08-Jul-2007 at 22:32
Afghanan your info are mostly correct brother. But let me tell you guys that not all Hazaras are Shiit Muslem. We have many Ismaili and Sunni Muslims too. I am a Naiman Hazara, and all Naimans are Sunni. We don't live in Hazarajat, we live in northern Afghanistan, Kazakhistan and Mongolia. I was in Mazar-r-Sharif when Taliban lost the first time to Polawon Dostum and Hazara forces, but I wasn;t there when Taliban came back the second time. But I know what happened there because I have many family friends in Mazar-e-Sharif. As Afghanan said thousands of Hazaras and Uzbeks were killed, mostly Hazara men and male Hazara children. We all know that Taliban are cruel but women were quite safe. No locals have any complains about their woman being tortured or killed. I know this because I was there.
 
It's true that Hazaras were treated unfairly since Pashtuns started ruling. But that doesn't mean all Pashtuns were like that. Their closed-mindedness forced them to bring up the past to torture Hazara farmers who were surrounded on Hindu-Kush mountains of Central Afghanistan.
 
Originally posted by MarcoPolo

why have they been attacked repeatedly all throughout history?  Is it mere ethnic rivalry, i used to think it could be religious but that doesnt make sense either since they 've been attacked by their co-religionist in north of Afghanistan on several instances in history as well..  or maybe, its just a classic case of stronger / more dominating tribe exerting their influence on a more passive tribe..
If you want a true answer brother, firstly you have to understand a bit about the history of the land which is today called Afghanistan, knowing that it's not a land where only one race lived in the history, there were many. I think you will have a different openion than many people if your judgements are based on true facts.
 
As a Hazara Afghan I am happy that people are more open-minded today. And they all work together to develop Afghanistan. I am also more than satisfied with Hazara people's situation today. They are very hard working and they are everywhere around the world working or studying to reach their goals.
 
~Peace


Edited by Naimani - 09-Jul-2007 at 08:37
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 03:11
There are an estimated one million Hazaras in Pakistan. They have achieved the highest positions in society here, especially the armed forces
 
here
 
Gen Musa Khan was CinC of the Pakistan Army for 8 years, from 1958 to 1966, and during this time he oversaw the transformation of the military from a colonial police force, to the finest army in Asia. He led the army in  the '65 war against India.
 
 Air Marshal Changezi was commander PAF Northern Command in Peshawar during the Afghan war and thus was responsible was the logistic support for the Afghan mujahdeen and the defencxe of Pakistani Air Space from |soviet Planes.
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Posts: 36 		  Quote Naimani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 08:19
Originally posted by Sparten

There are an estimated one million Hazaras in Pakistan. They have achieved the highest positions in society here, especially the armed forces
 
here
 
Gen Musa Khan was CinC of the Pakistan Army for 8 years, from 1958 to 1966, and during this time he oversaw the transformation of the military from a colonial police force, to the finest army in Asia. He led the army in  the '65 war against India.
 
 Air Marshal Changezi was commander PAF Northern Command in Peshawar during the Afghan war and thus was responsible was the logistic support for the Afghan mujahdeen and the defencxe of Pakistani Air Space from |soviet Planes.
Thanks a lot for your valuable info about General Musa Khaan and General Changezi. I've heard a lot about them. Their achievements and braveries reveal their great personalities.
 
Clap
 
Sparten you must be one of our brothers from Quetta, right? By the way I'm a Hazara too, from Naiman. Souds like Naimans don't exist no more, but we are still surviving LOL in Northern Afghanistan (ba zore Khoda).


Edited by Naimani - 09-Jul-2007 at 08:34
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 10:38

I am actually not hazara! I am from Islamabad, my family is from S Waziristan a place called kanigorum. Burki Tribe. I did live in Quetta for 2 years in the late 80's. Glad to see that you are still in Afghanistan.

 

 
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Posts: 190 		  Quote MarcoPolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 11:53
thanks for the synapsis Afghanan..that was very insightful, its a sorry state of affairs when our people turn on each other for personal gains or get marred in petty rivalries and commit horrible acts especially in this day and age when we should be focusing on more important issues and catching up with the rest of the world.   I wonder when our people will be able to rid ourselves of this lowest of human qualities, i mean, it leaves our people in such a vulnerable position to exploitation by foreign 'forces' and prevents us from ever progressing onto higher levels.  Its a sorry state especially when we know we have soo much potential to do great things in this world.   I hope that the condition improves for all of us and in particular the Hazara's.
 
(by the way, is their a link about Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan where i can possibly follow up on his background that you know of?)
 
@ Sparten
thanks for the inspiring story about those Hazara men.. I've heard of General Musa before, but never knew he was of Hazara decent.  I think, there comes a time when an individual becomes an examplary figure and transcends ethnic boundaries.. he no longer is 'limited' by what his background is, but rather, is known by his character and acts.  an example of this was once I went to cheer on the Pakistani boxers during an international boxing tournament in Dubai.  This guy was an excellent boxer and won the tournament, he paraded around with the Pakistani flag on his back all ecstatic with cheers from the crowd. Later I had a chance to meet him to congratulate/thank him and found out he was of the minority Makrani ethnic group from Balochistan.  That was my first ever meeting with a makrani and seeing him filled me with pride and passion.  I look forward to the day that this feeling is universal in our country and not just on sporadic occasions.
 
and btw.. kanigoram is such a beautiful place, I've gone only once, back abt 10 yrs ago for my classmates wedding.. have you gone back there recently? and can u speak 'burki'?
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 13:22
I think the boxer must have been Lassi Mehrulla. I can more or less make out what they are saying, if I concentrate, but I have lived in islamabad all my life (and moms a muhajir to boot), so I am pretty rusty on that. As for you, you said you went to school in hazara division, was it Burnhall, if it was you did not end up in PMA did you?
 
P.S kanigorum is a beautiful place I agree, I have gone a few times, last was in 2000.
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Posts: 36 		  Quote Naimani Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 21:00
Originally posted by Sparten

I am actually not hazara! I am from Islamabad, my family is from S Waziristan a place called kanigorum. Burki Tribe. I did live in Quetta for 2 years in the late 80's. Glad to see that you are still in Afghanistan.

Actually I live in Sydney, Australia at the moment. I've been in Islamabad a few times, it's got nice weather compared to other cities :)
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Posts: 2394 		  Quote edgewaters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12-Jul-2007 at 08:53
Originally posted by Afghanan

The genetic tests done on the Tocharians (ancestors of the Kushans) that were done in the Takla Makan desert in China prove that they fall under the Iranian family.


Few small problems with this idea.

First, nobody knows if the Takla Makan mummies were Tocharian. The artifacts found with them are not Tocharian in the least; dyed wool tweeds in a tartan pattern, pointed hats, etc.

Moreover the DNA results are very strange - they show a mix of East Asian haplotypes with, of all things, early far western (eg Atlantic coastal) European groups, ie native groups of western Europe like the Basques and Irish. Strange!!! Though it makes sense when considering that Tocharian is a centum Indo-European language, part of the same branch that includes West European languages like Italic, Celtic, and Germanic.

How the heck they got out there is a mystery. They didn't come from Iran, because they were relatively recent arrivals (1st millenium BC) carrying artifacts of contemporary Europeans; if they had come from Iran, they would have languages and artifacts related to what was going on in Iran in that time. They may have swung through Iran, but if they did, they didn't assimilate with the locals.
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Posts: 1098 		  Quote Afghanan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13-Jul-2007 at 00:19
My whole point of the discussion about the Takla Makan mummies was that they were Indo-European and not Mongolian.  I'm not saying they came from Iran, but like other peoples who crossed from Eurasia/West Asia, through the Pamirs and to the Tarim Basin , they most likely followed the Steppe lands 3-5 thousand years ago.  There is archaeological evidence to prove there was a presence in Inner Asia by PIE peoples around this time. 
 
The PIE's that make up the Tocharians most likely make up Iranian and some Turkic people today from Uighirs to the East, to Iran in the West today.  BTW, Wool rug patterns of Tocharians were found to be similar to wool Rug Patterns of Kochi Nomads in Afghanistan, and pointed hats were common among the Saka, with whom the Tocharians are said in one breath. 
 
Also, I'm not saying that there is no relation between Tocharians and other IE related languages or people, they most likely share the same root, which was in West Asia, not Western Europe.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by Afghanan - 13-Jul-2007 at 00:22
The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest.
~ Khushal Khan Khattak
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