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Christscrusader
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Topic: Why not Hellas? Posted: 19-Nov-2004 at 21:27 |
I was wondering, since Greeks call there land Hellas, why is it everyone else calls it Greece? Where did that come from?
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Cywr
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Posted: 19-Nov-2004 at 21:42 |
Unsuprisingly, like the names for many European countries in various
European languages, it comes from the Latin root Graecia.
Why did the Romans call it that, i don't know, maybe the same reason called the Teutons - Germans, the Soumi - Finns etc.
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vagabond
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Posted: 19-Nov-2004 at 23:50 |
Just as in almost every other language, many countries are not referred to by what they call themselves but by what the are called in that language.
Greece - Griechenland - Grecia - Grece (as Cywr said - all refelcting the same Latin root)
France - Frankreich - Francia (All referring not to the latin name for the land - but to the "Franks" who lived there)
Germany - Allemagne - Germania - Deutschland
Some countries are referred to by what their name means - which then bears little relationship to the original pronunciation:
Unites States - Etats Unis - Vereinigten Staaten - Stati Uniti
It depends on when the country acquired it's name and how the various languages developed.
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Christscrusader
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Posted: 19-Nov-2004 at 23:54 |
I was sayin mostly because greeks call themselves Hellenes, but all other languages referr to them in some form of Greek. None say Hellas or Hellenes in any way. I was jsut curious.
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Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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Cywr
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Posted: 20-Nov-2004 at 00:29 |
Well Hellenic is frequently used as a substitute for 'Greek'
when describing things, but then English is like that, with multiple
words for the same thing from nay different languages.
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JanusRook
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Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 19:42 |
What are greeks called in Esperanto?
Because I know that from Cywr's earlier posting they got Wales right? Kymri(?) or something like that?
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Economic Communist, Political Progressive, Social Conservative.
Unless otherwise noted source is wiki.
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Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 20:09 |
Arabic:ونان
Aromanian: Grtsii
Bahasa Indonesia: Yunani
Bahasa Malayu: Yunani
Belarussian: Грэ́цыя
Breton: A' Ghrig
Bulgarian: Гърция
Catalan: Grcia
Czech: Řecko
Danish: Grkenland
Dutch: Griekenland
Esperanto: Grekio
Estonian: Greeka
Finnish: Kreikka
French: Grce
German: Griechenland
Greek: Ελλάδα
Hebrew: יוון
Icelandic: Grikkland
Interlingua: Grecia
Italian: Grecia
Latin: Graecia
Lithuanian: Graikija
Low German: Grekenland
Luxembourgish: Griichenland
Minnan: Hi-lia̍p
Norwegian (Riksmal): Hellas
Polish: Grecja
Portuguese: Grcia
Romanian: Grecia
Russian: Греция
Serbian:Грчка
Slovenian: Grčija
Spanish: Grecia
Swedish: Grekland
Thai: ประเทศกร$ 37;ซ
Toki Pona: ma Elena
Tok Pisin: Gris
Ukrainian: Греція
Welsh: Gwlad Groeg
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Christscrusader
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Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 21:01 |
This guy knows his stuff.
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-Jc
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Cywr
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Posted: 28-Nov-2004 at 22:16 |
Yes, the wise men of the Netherlands speak many languages
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Yiannis
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Posted: 29-Nov-2004 at 03:13 |
It's also interesting that all "eastern" people call us "Yunan" (Iones) because they have learned about us from the Persians, while all "western" people call us "Greek" because they have learned about us from the Romans.
Btw, the word Greek is coming from an Eboean conoly in Italy called Graea, with which the Romans came into contact first. Therefore all Hellenes were called: Graeki.
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
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Romano Nero
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Posted: 30-Nov-2004 at 07:20 |
Originally posted by MixcoatlToltecahtecuhtli
Arabic:ونان Aromanian: Grtsii Bahasa Indonesia: Yunani Bahasa Malayu: Yunani Belarussian: Грэ́цыя Breton: A' Ghrig Bulgarian: Гърция Catalan: Grcia Czech: Řecko Danish: Grkenland Dutch: Griekenland Esperanto: Grekio Estonian: Greeka Finnish: Kreikka French: Grce German: Griechenland Greek: Hebrew: יוון Icelandic: Grikkland Interlingua: Grecia Italian: Grecia Latin: Graecia Lithuanian: Graikija Low German: Grekenland Luxembourgish: Griichenland Minnan: Hi-lia̍p Norwegian (Riksmal): Hellas Polish: Grecja Portuguese: Grcia Romanian: Grecia Russian: Греция Serbian:Грчка Slovenian: Grčija Spanish: Grecia Swedish: Grekland Thai: ประเทศกร$ 37;ซ Toki Pona: ma Elena Tok Pisin: Gris Ukrainian: Греція Welsh: Gwlad Groeg
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Actually, the etymology of the name "Greek" (Graeci in Roman) goes back to the first actual Greeks the Romans encountered. The Greeks always called themselves "Hellenes", but the Romans applied the specific name "Greek" to all those that spoke a similar language to the Graeci they encountered and thous it prevailed (seing that Latin has heavily influenced most European languages).
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AssyrianGuy7
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Posted: 30-Nov-2004 at 09:28 |
In Syriac/Aramiac aka Assyrian we call Greeks Yon'aya
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(Isaiah 19:23-25)
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Romano Nero
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Posted: 30-Nov-2004 at 09:35 |
Most eastern languages are using the root -yon- which comes from the Persian Yunon (IIRC) which is a paraphrase of the Greek Ionian.
So, both the easteners and the westeners are using the name of a single Greek tribe to describe all the Hellenes.
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hansioux
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Posted: 09-Dec-2004 at 20:05 |
Originally posted by Christscrusader
I was sayin mostly because greeks call themselves Hellenes, but all other languages referr to them in some form of Greek. None say Hellas or Hellenes in any way. I was jsut curious. |
The Han language has refered to Greece as XiLai (English spelling shounds like SiLai) as early as Han dynasty.
Now it is called XiLa.
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Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 10:33 |
Don't forget Rum, Roumaios, which is what the Ottomans formally used to refer to all Greek Orthodox Christians.
this has gone through a meaning shift begining with meaning the Greek
Orthodox Christian areas of the Ottoman empire, and today to
specifically
mean only Greeks. EG the seat of the Ecumenical Patriarch of
Constantinople is called "Rum Fener" (fener coming from Phanar or
lighthouse from the district it is located). Turkey today insists Rum
means Greek and Greek only and make a point that the Rum mean only
Greeks even if
it had a broader meaning in the past. So there is a kind of politically
based circumscribed meaning of the word to refelct a policy of limiting
a
minority insitution namely the Eastern Orthodox Patriarchate whcih is
actually the longest continually operating
institution -- of any kind -- in all of Turkey.
So in the discussion about names you have to include rum, with Romaic
being a known dialect of Kione Greek and indeed consideration at the
foundign of Greece a compatative root for the official name. Greek
identity writers and foreign anthroplogists and historians often spoke
of the struggle between the Hellenic (mainland) and Romaic
(cosmopolitan) dual identities of modern century Greece. Greek refugees
from Asia Minor (1923) and the Black sea (1913) brought in a huge
romaic culture including a 19th centruy commerical and maritime
dominace of the eastern med.
so not only are they called Ionian i.e.yunan by Easterners encountring
Greeks on the black sea and Antatolia, and Greeks by those who first
encountered the Graea in Italy, and Hellene from the classical age self
nomination, they are also Romoais/Rum from the Byzantine age.
if you are curious look up the definition of the language Romaic or its
predicessor , the "koine." Not incidently koine and its derivative
romaic became the modern Greek language called (demotic Greek or
demotiki).
lastly although rumania, and romani (the gypsy language) also come from the same root in roman they are not directly related.
tamble();
Edited by aero
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Cywr
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Posted: 14-Dec-2004 at 17:34 |
IIRC, Roma were first known as the Doma, they were called the Roma after they endered Europe.
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Fizzil
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Posted: 18-Dec-2004 at 17:14 |
Arabic:
Fixed, pronounced Yunan(not Yunnan, thats chinese) which means Greece, for greek nationals its ""
I think its a corruption of the english/latin(?) word "Ionian".
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Yiannis
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Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 07:31 |
Actually Ionian is (of course) a Greek word. One of the three major Greek tribes: Ionians, Aeolians and Dorians.
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Infidel
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Posted: 19-Dec-2004 at 08:32 |
Originally posted by MixcoatlToltecahtecuhtli
Portuguese: Grcia
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Actually, it's Grcia. Just a minor correction. The people are grego(s) and grega(s). There are also the adjective helnico and the noun Hlade, but are especially used only in academic contexts.
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Hellinas
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Posted: 20-Dec-2004 at 04:11 |
Aristotle and Apollodorus wrote about Graeci, who were the Selle or Helle a Hellinic tribe of Epirus. We Hellines always did call ourselves by this name until the Roman empire that is. (Thucydides tells us that, Hellines were called the people living in Hellas. According to Greek mythology we were named after Hellene.) Then under the Roman "rule" we were called "Romans" a name that followed us untill the Byzantine empire, then we called ourselves "Romeoi"(sounds Rom-e-e) to distinguish ourselves from the rest of the Byzantines. This remained untill our independence from the Turks in 1829 which is when the name "Hellines" reappeared.
Edited by Hellinas
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