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Georgia's Armenians under attack

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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Georgia's Armenians under attack
    Posted: 18-May-2006 at 23:04
There are more than 300,000 Armenians residing in Georgia. Most of them are residing in the Samtskhe Javakheti region of Georgia, where they make roughly 90% of the population. This is also the site of a Russian Military base, which has provided countless jobs for the Armenian Resident and is currently relocating from Georgia to Armenia due to the request of the Georgian Government.

The talks of removal of the Russian base reached its peak last fall. In October (2005) leaflets were circulated in the Armenian regions, saying another "Genocide was on the way" and "Remember 1915...". There was a rumor that the Russians were spreading he leaflets (the leaflets were in Russian) so the Armenians would support the Russian military base and increase its longevity on the Georgian soil.

Months have passed from October, the Russian base has started to relocate. The first Russian convoys have already reached a base in Gyumri, Armenia.

The threats meanwhile have resurfaced.

Quoting from a news site:

"May 16 threatening leaflets in Russian were disseminated in Akhalkalaki, the center of Samtskhe-Javakheti region of Georgia mostly populated by Armenians. The leaflets that have images of a crescent and star and are signed by so-called Akhaltsikhe Liberation Brigade, literally say, Time has come to pay for our humiliation. Recall 1915. Gevorgyan croaked, Rastakyan is the next. We remind that Gevorgyan was the surname of a young man, killed in Tsalka this March, while Rastakyan is the distorted surname of co-chair of Virk unregistered party David Rstakyan."

the article is continued here:

http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=18033

What are the Armenians supposed to do? they are not getting support from the Georgian government.

any ideas?


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  Quote Artaxiad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-May-2006 at 23:23
The Azeri-Georgian-Turkish pipeline passes through the Armenian populated areas of Georgia. Azerbaijan and Turkey don't have good relations with Armenia, and it seems to me that Georgia isn't any different, especially in recent years. It is in their interests to remove the Armenians from their native lands and resettle Metskhet Turks in Samtskhe-Javakheti.

Most Western countries would naturally support anything that makes the pipeline's life easier.

Unfortunately, the Armenians of Georgia can't do much peacefully, especially when they are facing this kind of opposition.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 06:15
Georgia also persecutes its Ossetian minority.
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 07:11
and the greeks

yes there are pontians that live near the armenian border
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 08:27
Somebody is playing ethnic games in a troubled region ... I would not be surprised if Russia was behind all of this. After all its influence in the region has been always to antagonize the locals against each other. It is probably another attempt to destabilize the democratic changes in Georgia by creating unrest among its Armenian minority.
 
I think Georgie should take strong actions against those that distributed these leaflets and reaffirm its comittment to protects its minorities. All Georgian citizens must stand united against Russian imperial games.


Edited by bg_turk - 19-May-2006 at 08:27
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 08:35
How are the russians at fault here? Im sure they give the Ossest a helping hand, but i hardly think they have anything to do in the other parts of georgia, where the armeniians + pontians live.

 In the end Georgians are responsble for what happens in Georgia and how they treat their minorities.
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 08:38
Originally posted by Artaxiad

Unfortunately, the Armenians of Georgia can't do much peacefully, especially when they are facing this kind of opposition.
 
Are you suggesting that Armenians should use violance?
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 08:41
Originally posted by Leonidas

How are the russians at fault here?
 
Russian policy in Caucasus has awlays been divide and rule.
 
Russia would love too see pro-American western oriented Georgia plunge into ethnic strife.
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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 08:56
as for the armenians, they should stand their ground. Extremist want them to leave, so they should make sure they stay.Angry

Here i found another article on this problem

"Discontent is rising within Georgias Armenian community, the countrys largest ethnic minority, driven by complaints concerning the central governments language policy, as well as perceptions of discrimination. The building tension between ethnic Armenians and Georgian government officials has been linked to recent rioting and violence.

A March 9 altercation between ethnic Armenians and Svans in the Kvemo Kartli village of Tsalka led to the death of 24-year-old Gevork Gevorkian, an ethnic Armenian, and incited a mob to raid a local administrative building. Two days later, in response to Gevorkians death, several hundred protestors in Akhalkalaki, a predominantly ethnic Armenian town in the neighboring region of Samtskhe-Javakheti, stormed the local branch of Tbilisi State University, a court building and the office of a Georgian Orthodox Church archbishop.

Responding to the violence, Parliament Speaker Nino Burjanadze on March 13 placed the blame on "serious forces, who [are] try[ing] to trigger destabilization in this region," the Civil Georgia web site reported.

Some ethnic minorities in the region have a different interpretation. "The murder of the Armenian [Gevork Gevorkian] wasnt a political act, it was criminal," suggested Makhare Matsukov, an Akhalkalaki business leader and ethnic Greek. "But politics created the situation that exists in Tsalka and the situation here in Akhalkalaki."


The greeks have almost completely left that area (tskala) in the last 15 years or so.Disapprove

"Once numbering 30,000, Tsalkas Greek population is now about 1,500 and shrinking. A mass exodus occurred during the 1990s when thousands of families relocated to Greece for work. As Greeks left, natural disaster victims from the northern Georgian region of Svaneti and the western Black Sea region of Achara began to move into vacant homes. Squatters took over many abandoned houses; pillagers ransacked others. As economic conditions in Tsalka worsened, and the towns crime rate increased, remaining villagers (12,000 Armenians, 1,500 Azeris and 1,500 Greeks) started to view their "guests" as a threat."

But the armenians problems are more than just a bit of trouble if your read the whole thing you will see that its broader than just one bashing or some pamphlets. Its lack of minorty rights, crap economics and a fledging democracy that has its L plates on. I hope they learn the georgians learn quickly for the armenians sake.

"The need to have a working knowledge of Georgian lies at the heart of most complaints.

Georgian government statistics on election registration estimate the number of ethnic Armenians in Akhalkalaki at 95.8 percent of the towns population of 10,000. (Local Armenians put the number at 98 percent.) Since the entire region of Samtskhe-Javakheti functions primarily in Armenian, few Akhalkalaki residents speak Georgian. At the same time, Russian is frequently spoken thanks to the presence of a former Russian military base.

"We cant get good jobs unless we speak Georgian, but how can you learn Georgian so well when youre 30 or 40 years old?" said a resident of Ninotsminda, a nearby village not far from the Armenian border. "If we cant get work here, we will continue to move to Russia for work, if we can get visas." Unofficial estimates put the number of Javakheti men who work seasonally in Russia at 80 percent"


link (again)


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  Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 09:01
Originally posted by bg_turk


Russian policy in Caucasus has awlays been divide and rule.
 
Russia would love too see pro-American western oriented Georgia plunge into ethnic strife.


sounds like the USA in the balkans, britain in cyprus well like basically any big power play. The georgians are in control of how they behave, read my article ^, its a broader issue than just emperial stiring.

Nothing is as simple and easy as you put it
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Edited by Leonidas - 19-May-2006 at 09:04
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 09:04
Originally posted by Leonidas

Georgian government statistics on election registration estimate the number of ethnic Armenians in Akhalkalaki at 95.8 percent of the towns population of 10,000. (Local Armenians put the number at 98 percent.) Since the entire region of Samtskhe-Javakheti functions primarily in Armenian, few Akhalkalaki residents speak Georgian. At the same time, Russian is frequently spoken thanks to the presence of a former Russian military base. "We cant get good jobs unless we speak Georgian, but how can you learn Georgian so well when youre 30 or 40 years old?" said a resident of Ninotsminda, a nearby village not far from the Armenian border. "If we cant get work here, we will continue to move to Russia for work, if we can get visas." Unofficial estimates put the number of Javakheti men who work seasonally in Russia at 80 percent"
 
This is awlays a problem but minorities simply have to learn to deal with it. The study of Armenian should be certainly encouraged, but all should be obliged to know Georgian so that the state can function as one integral unit. I mean what would happen if Turks in Greece and Bulgaria refused to learn the official languages? Would they be able to get jobs? I suggested that Turkish should be made compulsory for Turks in Bulgaria in the BG section, and they called me seperatist and what not - I do not think Armenians in Georgia can ask for a special treatment of their language. They simply need to integrate into Georgia better - then it will be much harder to create such provocations as this leaflet scandal. Asking that Armenian be made the official language for a part of Georgia is simply equivalent to a form of seperatism.
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 17:32
     Its not just the language thats a problem, its the fact that the Georgian government has left this region completely underdeveloped. Smaller minority regions not only have more money being spent on them by the Georgian government, but they even have their own autonomous districts such as Abkhazia, South Ossetia and Ajaria. Why would you grant much smaller minorities autonomy, and then ignore your largest minority? The Armenians are not even asking to be an autonomous district, they just want to be treated as part of the Republic of Georgia.

     I agree that in any country, minorities have to make a solid attempt to adapt. If this was the only barrier for the Armenians then there wouldn't be much of a problem, its the fact that the Georgian government has disregarded this whole region as being part of their country. Not only are they ignoring their largest minority, theyre going to move in foreigners to dilute the problem as opposed to solving it. Thats just going to create more problems, and all the Caucasus needs is one spark and the whole region will ignite into war.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:06
1993: http://ostv.ru/play.php?oc=66
 
Russia is not responsible for Georgians killing Ossetians at Zaur.
 
 
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  Quote Artaxiad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:06
Georgia is very fragile with its many ethnic minorities, so it cannot function this way. It can only be a successful country if it becomes a federation.

I don't think that the ethnic Georgians will agree.
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:10
Originally posted by Zagros

1993: http://ostv.ru/play.php?oc=66
 
Russia is not responsible for Georgians killing Ossetians at Zaur.
 
 
 
Ok, I opened the link and started seeing dead bodies ... I cant always handle looking at dead bodies you know. Can you breifly descibe what happen to the Ossetians at Zaur?
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:21
Originally posted by Artaxiad

Georgia is very fragile with its many ethnic minorities, so it cannot function this way. It can only be a successful country if it becomes a federation.
 
It is already very fragile, and you want to make it even more fragile. Maybe you are hoping that once Samtskhe-Javakheti becomes autonomous, the Armenians there will follow the lead of their brethern in Nagorno-Karabakh?
 
I can understand that the Armenians in Georgia may be in a difficult sitation as a minority, but creating distrubance and trying to weaken Georgia will not serve their interests - it might serve the interests of Russia and those that seek confronation and bloodshed, but certainly not the interests of the ordinary Georgians citizens of whatever ethnic background.
 
The interests if Armenian minority will be best served by a strong, democratic Georgia comitted to human rights and fully anchored with the European values - and for this they need to be patient. 


Edited by bg_turk - 19-May-2006 at 18:22
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:24

It was an incident where, fleeing the figthing, South Ossetian refugees were intercepted in Zaal and killed.

Information here:
 
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  Quote mamikon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 19:59
"The interests if Armenian minority will be best served by a strong, democratic Georgia comitted to human rights and fully anchored with the European values - and for this they need to be patient. "

What kind of a government comitted to human rights and fully anchored with the European values would move Turks from 1000 miles away to a place overwhelmingly Armenian, disregarding the animosity between the two people? especailly when now you have that stupid Liberation Brigade jostling a Turkish flag and saying  " we are going kill you all"
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  Quote ArmenianSurvival Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 20:25
     Yup. If they cared, they wouldn't be moving foreigners into a region just to dilute the region's cries for equality. Apparently Georgian government officials have never heard of any conflicts between Turks and Armenians, especially the one that happened only a decade ago right across their border....Idiots.

     Instead of using up money to move foreigners into the region, why don't they just spend that money to build that regions infrastructure. I don't know, just a thought.
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  Quote bg_turk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-May-2006 at 21:05
Originally posted by mamikon

"The interests if Armenian minority will be best served by a strong, democratic Georgia comitted to human rights and fully anchored with the European values - and for this they need to be patient. "

What kind of a government comitted to human rights and fully anchored with the European values would move Turks from 1000 miles away to a place overwhelmingly Armenian, disregarding the animosity between the two people? especailly when now you have that stupid Liberation Brigade jostling a Turkish flag and saying  " we are going kill you all"
 
what would satisfy you mamikon? what do you want georgia to do? maybe seal the region of to turks so that they cannot enter? should the fact that armenians live there preculde turks from settling there - after all is the region not part of their own country too?
 
the stupid liberation brigade should be dealt with by the authorities. good night.
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