Genocide of the Pontian Greeks

So, we have 80 year old propaganda photos; we have articles pasted without comment, and now we have lists of countries to hate.

It didn't take this thread long to descend into the crapper, so it is flushed.

Topic locked.

And which one is?

PONTIAN GREEKS and their STRUGGLE for SURVIVAL Steve Papadopoulos, The National Herald, January 29-30, 2000

*These testimonies have been extracted from Steve Papadopoulos' book "Events and Cultural Characteristics regarding the Pontian-Greeks and their Descendants."

Around 1922 authorities of the Turkish and Greek governments reached an oral agreement to exchange populations as one of the steps in settling their political differences. The exchange of populations was to affect those Turks who lived in Greece and those Greeks who lived in Asia Minor, which included Pontos. This agreement was not formalized, according to [G.] Valavanis [Contemporary General History of Pontos. Athens : 1925] , until January 31, 1923.

Prior to this, however, in November of 1922, authorities of the Turkish government notified everyone, including those who had been relocated to the interior of Asia Minor and had not returned as of yet, to report to Trebizond and to submit their notices of intent to leave Pontos. Of course, this included only those few who remained in the cities and the others who somehow had made it through the hardships that took place during their exile. It was only those who by chance had escaped death through the slaughterings, the starvation, the diseases, the hangings, the burnings, the sentencings, and the many other ways the Turks had used in their attempts to annihilate the Pontian-Greek people. However, the Pontian-Greeks remained united.

Confusion, fear, hardships, disease and, once again, death were experienced by many Pontian-Greeks. Many informants indicated that with very short notice after their return from exile, they were directed to sell their belongings, take with them as many of their items as they could carry, and leave Pontos.

INFORMANT D [Male, born in Kotyora in 1916. This informant remembered little that had taken place in his native land, due to his age. However, he had done extensive research regarding Pontos and its people and was, therefore, able to provide rich and invaluable information. He has visited Pontos twice and has written a book which gives an overall history of Pontos. Due to his interest in this study, he became an outside reader of this dissertation.

The most memorable event that he recalled was his illness after he reached Greece. He also recalled the number of Pontian-Greeks who were dying on an island in Greece. He came to the United States in 1958, where he has been practicing medicine. In addition to his book, he has written and published many articles dealing with various topics related to Pontos.] He said that his family had escaped into Russia around 1916. They remained there for two years and returned to Pontos because they heard that peace had finally been reached between the Turks and the Pontian-Greeks. "Of course, " he said, "this was not true, and my family was to suffer once again many brutalities until we boarded a ship of Greece."

INFORMANT S [Male, born around 1912, in Krinita, Orpheos. The village Krinita was made up of 65 homes. All but 11 of the families were Pontian-Greek. His father worked in Rizos as a smith. When six Pontian-Greeks were to be exiled, a Turk hid his father. However, he said that an announcement came that no Turk was to hide any Pontian-Greeks and his father was asked to leave. "He left from Rizos and reached our village after a week," he said. "He was very sick when he reached our village. He died shortly after that. "

His most memorable event was the departure from Pontos. He said, "people in my village took with them as many things as they could, gathered by the church, and were escorted to a port city. From there they were supposed to go to Greece. However, no boat came. Finally, a small boat came. It took us and dropped us off at Prinkiponiso. Around 1,500 Pontian-Greeks had gathered on this island. Here the British and the American Red Cross provided rationed food for us. Another boat picked us up from here and brought us to Greece. After waiting there for a long time we were directed to a small village called Nea Trapezounta." He came to the United States to live with his children. ]

He indicated that when the two countries agreed upon the exchange of the populations, which took place in 1922, "we were informed of it and told that we were to leave Pontos sometime in 1923. However, the Turkish army came shortly after the notification and ordered us to leave. 'Take whatever you can and leave by the next morning', were the orders given to us. I remember preparing a few items to take with us as we were getting ready to leave. This was not expected. The villagers who were gathered by the army took whatever they could and got ready and went by the church. The army followed us all the way to the town where we were supposed to take off for Greece. However, no boats came for us. Finally, a boat came and told us that the boat would take aboard whoever paid five Pankanota (Turkish currency). The boat was small. It became very crowded. About seventeen families stayed behind. This boat took us to Constantinople. There the English and American Red Cross provided help for us. They placed us on Prinkiponiso, an island near Constantinople. We stayed there about three months. There were 1,000 to 1,500 people from Pontos on this island. We were provided with rationed food (sisitio). My grandfather was with us as well. A boat finally came and took us eleven days to get to Salonica. We starved. The boat stopped in Kavala for water only. Older people and younger ones, about four or five of them, died. Their bodies were thrown in the sea.

We finally arrived in Salonica. Here we suffered again just as much as we suffered in Pontos. We were placed in a field surrounded by fence (barbed wire). Here we would receive soup with beans in it so we wouldn't starve. Here people would go to other villages to beg for food. Even my mother went begging. I remember her coming back and bringing three ears of corn.

From Salonica, we started looking for villages to go in. Relatives of mine went looking and finally came back and decided to go to a village which was seven hours away from Kilkis. We boarded a train for Kilkis. The train was very crowded. For five days we traveled on the train. Finally, we reached Kilkis. We started walking to our destination. When we reached the village, people saw all kinds of vegetables and started to eat. Turks were still living in these villages. We stayed in this village until 1926. In 1926, my mother's brothers came and told us to move where they were going, and there we settled, in Nea Trapezounta Katerini. "

INFORMANT W [Female, born in Kotyora in 1905. This informant lost both of her parents in Pontos. Her mother died in 1916 as the problems between the Turks and Pontian-Greeks surfaced. Her father died in 1918 during the exile. She and her four brothers and sisters managed for themselves. She provided eyewitness accounts of events that took place in Pontos prior to her departure.

Her most memorable event was the actual departure from Pontos and her resettlement in Greece. She and her brothers and sisters were to go to Ordu with strangers, board a boat, and begin life all over in Greece. "When we reached Greece, " she said, "thank God some relatives came and took us from there and told us that we could stay with them. My uncle was also there...A room was made available to us; it was very small, but at least we didn't have to sleep in the park. At the beginning, the government provided one horse per family for all the Pontian families in the village. Turks were still here. They weren't forced to relocate as abruptly as we were. We were also provided with a home. During the summer we were provided with land. The land was outside of the village. These thirty Pontian families all decided to build houses outside of the village. None of us were given homes that Turks had abandoned. These homes were taken over by people who had lived there prior to us. Anyway, we finished building a little house and we began life all over once again. We were given farms and started farming...We were provided with about five acres of land. I tell you, this little town had the most organized Pontian neighborhood around. However, people became ill. Someone stole our horse as well one night. Now we had to go to our farms carrying everything on our backs. I remember running all around looking for this horse, to no avail. It had disappeared. There was no water. The water was very dirty. There was mud all over when it rained. After four or five years, we were provided with clear water." She came to the United States in 1928.]

She indicated that she, as well as many of the Pontian-Greeks, were very happy when they heard that they were to relocate to Greece. She gave the following account regarding her departure: "We filled out some papers. Ships came and picked us up at Ordu and we landed in Constantinople. This ship was Turkish and it was called "Kir Nahal."

In Ordu, when we went to register for the exchange, we were told that on a certain day a ship was leaving for Greece. This ship would pick up passengers from different locations in Pontos. We had few things with us, things that had not been stolen by the Turks.

Until we reached Constantinople, we suffered much to the due to the roughness of the sea. After we reached Constantinople, we stayed on the boat for two days. The boat was full of orphans, widows, and widowers, just like my family. My mother died in 1916 and my father in 1918. My mother died from yellow fever. She was burning up with fever. I remember her asking her mother for some water. Her mother didn't give her any; she was afraid that she would die. My grandmother died in a turkish hospital. I don't even know where or if she was buried. My father became ill during the exile. He kept saying, 'I hope I can get you children home.' He did, and he died. I remember we had no coffin to bury him in. We broke some boxes, made a coffin, and buried him. The Greeks and the Turks had separate cemeteries. We were left without a protector.

The people on the boat were stricken with smallpox. Doctors came and gave shots to everyone. They quarantined us for fifteen days. Those who died were thrown into the sea. We were fortunate we weren't stricken. We landed in Patras....Then we went to Arta...and then a notice came for us to relocate in Katerini. ..."

INFORMANT L [Female, born in Hamouri, around 1894. This informant...furnished vivid memories of her experiences in her native land. Her village was made up of approximately 100 families, all Pontian-Greeks.

When she was first approached for information, she was rather reluctant to talk. This was due to her health and her fear of the tape recorder. Eventually, she agreed to talk. However, due to the fact that she felt uncomfortable with the tape recorder, only part of the conversations were recorded. She had left Pontos in 1922 with the exchange populations. She provided information regarding life in general in her village and events which occurred prior to and during her departure from Pontos. Her most memorable event was the time she spent in Istanbul waiting for a boat to Greece. Here she lost most of the family members who were with her to a disease that killed hundreds of Pontian-Greeks. She finally reached Greece and, after days of wandering different parts of Greece, was directed to settle in Klitos, Kozani. She came to the United States to live with her son, who emigrated here in 1967. ]

She gave the following description of her departure from Pontos : "One day a Turk came and stuck a notice on the front door of our church. The notice said that the Greeks of this village had 15 days to pack their belongings and leave because the agreement to exchange populations between Greece and Turkey had been signed, but this was not true. The agreement had not been signed. They just wanted to steal things from us. Of course, we had no choice. We gathered in the churchyard. We didn't want to leave during the day because we were afraid the Turks would see us and fire upon us. We therefore decided to leave at night. Ladies carried their young ones and we began walking. One young man became ill. His mother knew that he was going to die. She wanted to return to the village so her son could have a peaceful death in familiar surroundings. We tried to discourage her; but she went anyway. Her son died a short while later, after she had reached the village. Then she came to Greece when the agreement to exchange populations was finally signed by Turkey and Greece. Things worked out for her. She didn't have to suffer too much on relocating. We had to stay in a jail in Constantinople for nine months. Many died. No baths, no food, lice all over. I lost three children in Constantinople. After nine months under the most undesirable living conditions, we were to leave and come to Salonica, Greece. As we were getting ready to board the ship bound for Salonica, the Turks lined us up. As we were waiting on the boat for our children to arrive, we were becoming impatient. After a while, the children appeared. Most were crying and blood was dripping from their heads. The Turks had beaten the children for no reason at all. Yes, they fooled us. We suffered. The exchange had not been signed as we were told in our village. If only the Russians hadn't taken off. You see, the Turks were going to do the same thing to us that they had done to the Armenians.

We finally boarded this Turkish ship which was in terrible condition, and we took off. We hit a storm, a very bad storm. Two ships sank and we were in fear of sinking as well. People were screaming. The priest who was with us began praying to Saint Nicholas to save us. We had to turn back. We landed in a city called Zorkutak. We stayed there for a day. We were starving. Our children were crying for something to eat. There was nothing, not even bread. We started our odyssey once again. We reached Constantinople, and there we finally got some bread to eat and we fed our children. For seventeen days we were on this boat. We were getting very restless. They finally let us out, on a day that it was pouring rain. The rain was really coming down. We were soaked. My children became sick. This is when two of them died. I buried them there. I don't want to remember any more of my trip to Greece."

She became very emotional at this point...[but] She did share some thoughts on her resettlement, describing it in a few words: "We landed in Salonica, an area called Ano Toumba. We were directed to some homes. Some people were lucky to get homes to stay in. We didn't. We stayed in a yard. We put down some handmade carpeting and sat down on that. For three or four weeks we stayed there. Some people would give us food to eat. Then we registered for the villages where we wanted to settle down. We signed up for Linda. Others went to Kavala. We were sent to a village where we really didn't want to go. However, we had no choice and therefore resettled in Klitos, Kozani. "

INFORMANT AA [Male, born in Livera, in the province of Rodopoli. This town was made up of about 370 families. With the exception of about ten families who were Turkish, all were Pontian-Greek. The family of this informant specialized in coppersmithing. He shared information about events he had witnesses prior to his departure and resettlement in Greece. His father left Pontos in 1912 and came to the United States. The most memorable event of this informant was the fate of a young man with whom he was sleeping on the boat. He said, "a young man with whom I was sleeping on the boat which was carrying us to Greece died in his sleep. In the morning, they threw his body in the sea."

In Greece, he settled in Asvestopetra. His father sponsored him after one year and he cam to the United States.]

When asked about people's reactions to the news of their departure, he said : "They did not like it. They had no time to sell any of their belongings. Their possessions were left behind. I remember my family. We had three homes. We left everything behind. We left the doors open and walked away. Of course, I was young and it did not hit me as hard.

Turks came one night and informed us that the Pontian-Greek inhabitants of this village had to leave by the next day. Some Turks came and ordered us to gather in the center of the town for they had something to tell us. I went with my mother. This Turk told everyone that we had to leave. He also informed us that we were not to take any animals with us nor rent any wagons to put our belongings in. We were to leave and take only the things that we could carry. They made this very clear. The next day we gathered as many things which were necessary and went to Stavri. From there we started out for Trapezus. However, when we left our village, the Turks who lived in our village escorted us so no one would bother us. They took us all the way to Trapezus. They were afraid that on the way to Trapezus other Turks might attack us. So they protected us. I was with my mother and aunt and cousins. We, the children, were from twelve to fourteen years old. Let me tell you an episode that took place when we boarded the ship named 'Kerasous'. This was a Turkish ship. I remember the time that we had to wait for ships to board. Greece did not send any. I guess they didn't care about us. Many people became ill and hungry. Many died because the little money they had was all spent. I remember a Turkish boat named 'Killcheman', which boarded many Pontian-Greeks, free of charge, and dropped them off in Constantinople. They dropped them off in a place called Estiscutary, Citilineo, where the Turkish army had barracks. Hundreds died there.

I remember when we finally rented a Turkish boat and left. A child who was sleeping with me died one night. I was sleeping next to him. They threw him in the sea. When we arrived in Constantinople, we went to an island called Halki. The Greeks there really went all out to help us. Not only there, but in Constantinople, as well. We did not receive such treatment in Greece. After, we left Halki. My relatives who lived in Constantinople came and took us from this island and we stayed in Constantinople until 1925. In Halki we were staying in a monastery called Saint George, which people said was Russian. This was a beautiful place. My father left in 1912 and came to America. My aunt went to get the papers. This gentleman helped her to get the papers and we were to leave for Greece. In Greece, we went to Salonica on an Italian boat in 1925. We settled in Asvestopetra, a village near Ptolemaida, the northern part of Greece. Here the Greek government gave us a farm and then they gave us an ox. Later they gave us wood to build a house. Comparing this with the things we had in Pontos, they gave us absolutely nothing. I don't resent it, however, because I know that thousands came and they had to take care of all of them.

Greece did not offer us much. although we did not live a very rich life, we existed. We had many things. Greece is the one that created many problems for us. They had internal problems and in trying to straighten them out, they created problems with Turkey and we, in turn, paid for everything. Of course, when I compare today's living with the life of Pontos, I realize that we lived a poor life. We didn't compare then, however, and we were very happy people. But I'll tell you, the things we had in Pontos, we did not find in Greece. The natural beauty that existed in Pontos does not exist anywhere. The trees, the rivers, the plants were all there. We stayed in Asvestopetra for one year and then my father, who was in the United States, sponsored us and we came here. I hadn't seen him in fifteen years. You see, he left when the problems began between the Turks and Pontian-Greeks. He went to Greece and from there he went to the United States. He lived in New York. Then he came to Canton, Ohio to visit some Pontian-Greek friends. When he came to Canton, his friends told him to stay there with them, and that's how he stayed with them. "

INFORMANT I [Male, born in Samen, Kerasountos in 1895. This informant recalled losing his younger brothers in 1910. Diphtheria killed them and many other children around the area of Pontos where he lived. He did not get to know his father until he was eight years old. His father had left for Russia shortly after his birth and returned when he was eight. He remembered that many Pontian-Greeks had left Pontos around 1913 because the Turkish government decided to draft everyone, including the Pontian Greeks. To avoid being drafted, he escaped and came to the United States. The most memorable experience he recalled was the hunger he experienced during his trip to America.]

"We took the boat from Ordu and we passed Istanbul. We did not get off the boat for fear of the war. The boat picked up some things there and from there we went to Pireas. There we were quarantined for ten days. We were waiting for a bigger boat to come and take us. After we boarded the other boat, it took us twenty-one days to reach America. As we came near America, someone died on the ship and they threw him in the sea. We were told to get out on an island which was near Canada. There was one policeman there. This was near Quebec. They gave us some bread and fish at nighttime and we boarded a train and came to Canton. My brothers and brother-in-law were here (in Canton) and I came; others had come. In 1925 I went to Greece, to the village Sedes, where my [other] brother lived. I went to stay, and after two years I came back to Canton." ----I?`

In the wake of this conflict there was a violent reaction against the Greek communities throughout the new Republic of Turkey who were seen as disloyal � as indeed they generally were identifying more with their Greek heritage than the new Turkish republic. Thousands were killed on both sides in ethnic conflict.

http://www.freeglossary.com/Pontian_Greek_Genocide

I just did but you called it "Turkish Propaganda". The link contained a testimony by a Pontian Greek and I am sure it would have helped many Turks understand the suffering that Pontian Greeks have had to go through.

At least I do not steal images from the Armenians, like some of you do!!!

Originally posted by Spartakus Plz,stay on topic.Because if you do not,and this topic gets closed,i will promise you ,you will regret entering this site, both Hellens and Turks.

Spartakus, please relax. Nobody is denying that Pontians have been victims of a grave injustice, and there are many personal stories to be heard. Ay�a Abakan from the Turkish BBC section has actually collected many stories from the time including that one of this Pontian Greek now settled in Thesaloniki (in GrekoTurkish)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/turkish/iki_kere_yabanci/iki_kere_yaban ci_7.ram

It is indeed a heartbreaking story, but do understand that Muslims have suffered equally horribly at that time, and you do not have to elevate your suffering above that of the others. What happened to the Pontians was not  a Genocide.

STATISTICS OF DEMOCIDE
Chapter 5
Statistics Of
Turkey's Democide
Estimates, Calculations, And Sources*

By R.J. Rummel

The infamy of executing this century's first full scale ethnic cleansing belongs to Turkey's Young Turk government during World War I. In their highest councils Turkish leaders decided to exterminate every Armenian in the country, whether a front-line soldier or pregnant woman, famous professor or high bishop, important businessman or ardent patriot. All 2,000,000 of them.
Democide had preceded the Young Turk's rule and with their collapse at the end of World War I, the successor Nationalist government carried out its own democide against the Greeks and remaining or returning Armenians. From 1900 to 1923, various Turkish regimes killed from 3,500,000 to over 4,300,000 Armenians, Greeks, Nestorians, and other Christians

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP5.HTM

18-19 May 2005
On this occasion, the Department of Holocaust and Genocide Studies, Danish Institute for International Studies (DIIS), in cooperation with University of Southern Denmark, will hold an international conference on the Armenian genocide, where researchers from Armenia, Turkey, Canada, USA, Great Britain, Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark will discuss a range of historical and topical subjects:
- The Armenian genocide as precursor and prototype of 20th century genocide
- Other victim groups of genocide and persecution in the Ottoman empire from 1914-1922, for instance the Greek and Assyrian minorities

http://diis.dk/sw11640.asp

The previous quote is from the Hirosima Peace Institute see link:

http://serv.peace.hiroshima-cu.ac.jp/English/eproject/projec t5.htm

Originally posted by xristar Really bad for your image, bg_turk, that you tried 'to break our ego' with such bullsh*t. What you do is to provoke us, and seriously, that's how the  national egos are built. When you see Bulgarians provoking us in a such grotesk way, all you do is create a -wrong probably- despical of Bulgarians. And really, we Greeks do not have a bad oppinion for Bulgarians, at least as much as it seems Bulgarians have for us. (This oppinion I expressed is not only based on here. It's based by my general experience in historical forums for about 5 years. Bulgarians seem to hate us, I dare say more than the Turks. The Turks are perhaps too proud of their nation, that are blind some times to see the truth. But they do not hate us. I've seen many Bulgarians infiltrating threads only to accuse the Greeks. That's  just sad).

Sorry xristar for offending you, but I really warned you not to enter. But you may have a point when we talk about serious issues of people getting killed such as in this thread, I should not have posted such a sarcastic site.

By the way concerning the Greek image in Bulgaria, from my own experience I do not believe it is that bad as you are trying to make it, but of course there is some suspicition and it is undersandable since Bulgarians have on several occasions been victims of both Greek and Turkish empirial ambitions, so naturally history books do have a very strong anti-greek and anti-turkish bias. The second balkan war and the occupation of macedonia and its purging from slavs is seen my many bulgarians as a grave injustice and a national catastrophe.