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mamikon
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Topic: Worst traitors of you country Posted: 05-Sep-2006 at 19:51 |
True, there was a treaty of Brest-Litovsk in 1917-1918 which gave
Batumi, Kars and Ardahan to Turkey. However, as Enver's Army of Islam
attacked Armenia in 1918 the treaty was broken. It was also considered
absolete when Germany and the Ottoman Empire lost WWI.
Stalin was behind the treaty of Kars in 1921. As a result of the treaty
Georgia lost Artvin, which was under the Georgian/Armenian governship
following Georgian-Armenian War of 1918 (discontinued by British
intervention).
from Wiki:
The Treaty of Kars was a friendship treaty between Turkey and the Soviet governments of the Transcaucasian Republics. It was signed in Kars on October 23, 1921 and ratified in Yerevan on September 11, 1922. [1] Turkey ceded Ajaria with its largest city of Batumi[2] to the Soviet Union and the Transcaucasian SFSR in return for sovereignty over the cities of Kars and Ardahan. The treaty effectively ended the short-lived Democratic Republic of Armenia that had been established under the previous Treaty of Svres. Armenia does not recognize the treaty to this day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Kars
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 05:22 |
Originally posted by mamikon
True, there was a treaty of Brest-Litovsk in 1917-1918 which gave Batumi, Kars and Ardahan to Turkey. However, as Enver's Army of Islam attacked Armenia in 1918 the treaty was broken. It was also considered absolete when Germany and the Ottoman Empire lost WWI.
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I don't know if there is any pass over the Armenian territory of the time, but it is a fact that Enver's army was marching to Azerbaidjan, all the way to Baku, for its Pan-Turkic aims...
Ask the Soviet guys about keeping Armenia under control,though.
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We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;
A Strange Orhan Veli
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Barbarroja
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Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 06:37 |
Simon Bolivar, Sucre, and all independent leaders of America, who fought against their country, Spain. But history changes and now they are heroes in their countries.
And Charles IV and Ferdinand VII who gave the power to Napoleon and when Ferdinand returned he returned to absolutism and delete the constitution.
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I'm sorry but my English is not very good. I'm from Vila-real (Valencia, Spain)
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mamikon
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Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 09:22 |
Enver's march to Baku was in 1918 not 1920s. And he did send a regiment
to Yerevan, which was defeated. The battle which is celebrated in
Armenia every year.
Those "Soviet guys" attacked Armenia from the East, when Armenia
was protecting itself from Turkish raids into the Ararat valley.
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 06-Sep-2006 at 18:05 |
Originally posted by mamikon
Enver's march to Baku was in 1918 not 1920s. And he did send a regiment to Yerevan, which was defeated. The battle which is celebrated in Armenia every year.
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Wanna bet?
Ottoman army's(Which I mean, and I thought you meant by saying Enver's army) march into Baku was in September 1918 after the first English invasion of Baku...Though after Turkish cease fire in Mondros, English army came back to Baku.
The small portion of already weakened and collapsing Ottoman army was sent to Caucasus to control Azerbaidjan primarily(Well one more time thanks to infamous Enver Pasha's dreams)...Its main objective was Baku, so they succeeded on that..I believe it is quite normal for the attack on Yerevan to be repulsed as the army out there was already not too large and not in good conditions like Ottoman armies everywhere..
Enver just had gone to Azerbaidjan in 1920 to revive his Pan-Turkist plans.
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We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;
A Strange Orhan Veli
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Turk Nomad
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Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 08:00 |
Giyaseddin Keyhsrev,he ran from an Uighur Turk army of İlhanlı Empire,and left his men.
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mamikon
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Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 10:44 |
Wanna bet about what?
you said the same thing I said...
The battle of Sardarapat was in May and Enver captured Baku in
September of 1918. Since the Ottoman Army in the Caucasus front was
under Enver's command (again) then wouldnt you expect the army sent to
Sardarapat be part of his army?
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 12:40 |
Originally posted by mamikon
Wanna bet about what?
you said the same thing I said...
The battle of Sardarapat was in May and Enver captured Baku in September of 1918. Since the Ottoman Army in the Caucasus front was under Enver's command (again) then wouldnt you expect the army sent to Sardarapat be part of his army?
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Who said it was in 1920s then?I am barely confused nowadays ...I probably thought you said 1920 after you had mentioned the date..
Edited by Kapikulu - 11-Sep-2006 at 12:52
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We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;
A Strange Orhan Veli
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mamikon
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Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 12:51 |
me too
When did I say that Enver attacked Baku in 1920?
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Kalevipoeg
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Posted: 12-Sep-2006 at 03:52 |
Estonian bolsheviks are anti-Estonians, or traitors of Estonia.
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There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible than a man in the depths of an ether binge...
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Ponce de Leon
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Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 00:52 |
Originally posted by Barbarroja
Simon Bolivar, Sucre, and all independent leaders of America, who fought against their country, Spain. But history changes and now they are heroes in their countries.
And Charles IV and Ferdinand VII who gave the power to Napoleon and when Ferdinand returned he returned to absolutism and delete the constitution. |
Not only that, but those latin american heroes were not even good generals, and even worse politicians. ALl their plans broke down after they kicked the Spanish out and all these jumbles of countries formed. Pity that it was only the rich guys like simon bolivar who actually wanted to revolt for self-gain, while the rest of the people didnt care more or less
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MontanaGuy86
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Posted: 15-Sep-2006 at 04:47 |
Originally posted by Ptolemy
For Canada, the only name I could think of was Louis Reil. But then again, I actually admire him. |
I was actually going to say Prime Minister Mcdonald, but hes probaly not the worst traiter. I am also waiting for someone to answer the question about the southern right to succeed.
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Guests
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Posted: 16-Sep-2006 at 06:07 |
The worst traitor in Jewish history would have to be Mordechai Vanunu.
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Mordoth
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Posted: 21-Sep-2006 at 15:13 |
There have never been so much traitors such like in TURKISH history .
Cerkes Ethem
Sheik Said
Crowds of Menemen
Christostomos
Cakircali Mehmed Efe
...and hundreds of them .
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If Electricity Comes from Electrons ; does Morality come from Morons :|
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Turk Nomad
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Posted: 24-Sep-2006 at 06:20 |
Most of them ethnicly aren't Turk,this is another story =)
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Mordoth
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Posted: 24-Sep-2006 at 10:06 |
Do not also Forget ;
Ali Riza , the Journalist
Vahdettin , The Sultan
Damat Ferid Pasha
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If Electricity Comes from Electrons ; does Morality come from Morons :|
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Register666666
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Posted: 30-Sep-2006 at 21:17 |
As an American
I have a few, but in modern times, I would say:
Linden Johnson and George Bush Jr.
I'm not sure I should list my reasons as it might start some flame wars.
I'll just mention the U.S.S. liberty for Johnson, as for Bush, I think it's pretty obvious at this point.
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Posted: 06-Dec-2006 at 04:49 |
Efialtis who had drove persians behind the lines of spartans in battle of thermopiles.
The goverment of Gounaris which drove my nation into biggest destruction of 20th century,micrasiatic destruction.
byzantines generals in battle of magikert with turks,left the empire army without renforcements in the considerable moments of this battle and the opportunity to send turks back to Asia.
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Dan Carkner
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Posted: 06-Dec-2006 at 10:30 |
It's interesting the answers that a lot of people gave. I wouldn't agree with a lot of them.. sometimes people are just following their own twisted logic, or maybe they were wronged by the government they betrayed, who knows. And in other cases I would agree that they are bad people but not really "Traitors". I guess I'm not nationalistic enough to consider anyone in Canadian history a true "traitor", some people have done right or wrong but they were all just trying to get by..
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Posted: 07-Dec-2006 at 07:42 |
Iam jealous of nations such as canada or swiss because for some reasons you always have a peaceful life without the possible danger of a war but on the other hand there are areas like Balkans which have always nations conflict each other..
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