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Bulgarian participation in WW 1

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  Quote Aster Thrax Eupator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bulgarian participation in WW 1
    Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 07:52
This always happens on these threads- why do people have to constantly bring national pride and supremacy in to history? That's not the mark of a good historian
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  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 07:55
Because that are facts.
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  Quote NikeBG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 09:32
Originally posted by Earl Aster

I don't know much about the Balkan situation in WWI- the Bulgarians were fighting for the Allies or Axis?

The Germans, always with the Germans. In the next world war we'll probably be with them again (especially since we're together in one EU).

Btw, what does Slavi's clip of "Iovano, Iovanke" (in the first post) have to do with the Bulgarian participation in WWI?
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  Quote Liudovik_Nemski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 09:57
We all know that Bulgaria lost the war because of Romanian invasion.If Romania didnt enter the war greece and serbia would suffer a total crushing defeat.


The greek army was trapped in the Kresna Gorge(Kresnensko Defile) and was left at the mercy of the bulgars.Just when the situation was normalising Romania and Turkey invaded where we had no troops spare to place.No country can survive surrounded battling on 4 fronts.
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  Quote Liudovik_Nemski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 10:02
Originally posted by NikeBG


Btw, what does Slavi's clip of "Iovano, Iovanke" (in the first post) have to do with the Bulgarian participation in WWI?


Read in the beginning you can understand bulgarian.This was a battle in WW1.
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  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 10:03
Yes thats right,but ottomans stopped.They wanted only Adrianople.The situation with romanians is different.They entered bulgaria nad headed toward Sofia.Bulgarian government couldnt do anything but to surrender.The greek army was trapped in a pocket as Ludovik say.We also stopped serbians advance and pushed back.The result would be a victory for Bulgaria.I dont think there is a country that will win against four surrounding enemies.
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  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 10:13
Originally posted by Liudovik_Nemski

We all know that Bulgaria lost the war because of Romanian invasion.If Romania didnt enter the war greece and serbia would suffer a total crushing defeat.


The greek army was trapped in the Kresna Gorge(Kresnensko Defile) and was left at the mercy of the bulgars.Just when the situation was normalising Romania and Turkey invaded where we had no troops spare to place.No country can survive surrounded battling on 4 fronts.


If this and if that...

Bulgaria lost  both in 2nd Balcan war and WW1.

These are the only facts.



Edited by Brainstorm - 01-Nov-2006 at 10:14
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  Quote Liudovik_Nemski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 10:15
Originally posted by Brainstorm

Originally posted by Liudovik_Nemski

We all know that Bulgaria lost the war because of Romanian invasion.If Romania didnt enter the war greece and serbia would suffer a total crushing defeat.


The greek army was trapped in the Kresna Gorge(Kresnensko Defile) and was left at the mercy of the bulgars.Just when the situation was normalising Romania and Turkey invaded where we had no troops spare to place.No country can survive surrounded battling on 4 fronts.


If this and if that...
Bulgaria lost  both in 2nd Balcan wars and in WW1.

These are the only facts.



Yes.But another fact is that Greece wasn't the reason for the losses so don't swagger.


Edited by Liudovik_Nemski - 01-Nov-2006 at 10:16
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 14:38

Braiwashed  person?  Watch your mouth kid,because like i respect you,you are obligated to respect me.

 

Bulgarian rebels?Rebels against whom?They were paramilitary forces guided by the Bulgarian goverment.The Slavic population was a majority in Northren Macedonia (Modern Day F.Y.R.O.M etc),but in the Southern Macedonia,which is Modern day Hellenic Macedonia ,the Hellenic population was the majority.Therefore,when the Hellenic Army reached the Macedonian territory,they found slavic populations,but fewer than the Hellenic ones.Those Bulgarians left the area after the Bulgarian defeat in WWI,under the treaty of Neigy ,according to which Hellenic populations of Bulgaria would be exchanged with  Bulgarian populations from Hellenic Macedonia.As it happened:50.000 Bulgarians left for Bulgaria and 30.000 Hellens came to Hellas from Southern Bulgaria (Fillipoupolis etc.).They were not massacred,they were not hunted down.They were simply exhanged.

 

Concerning the pact between Hellas and Serbia,it was a defensive aggreement,signed in 1913.And it was not a secret:If Serbia was attacked,then Hellas had to assist Serbia with it's own military.Of course,all three countries wanted more territories,but Bulgarian forces were the ones who firstly attacked at Hellenic military regiments.And then ,Hellens responded along with the Serbs,as their aggreement stated.Both wanted to isolate Bulgarian expansionism ,in their favor.It's politics my friend.Nothing peculiar.Every country defend it's own interests.That's what Hellas and Serbia did.It's not our fault that Bulgaria had to fight alone.

 

Now,all countries,Serbia-Hellas-Bulgaria wanted more territories.And all countries would shed their blood to take more territory.Bulgarians wanted to reach Thessaloniki and the Agean Cost,Serbs wanted the area around Monastiri,we wanted the area of Modern Day Western (Hellenic) and Eastern ( Turkish) Thrace.The complex of the Balkan wars,was that all three countries had their popualtions in the same area ,and they were all mixed up.So,it would be natural for them to end up fighting for a territory that everybody required for his own.

 

Furthermore,if we start this conversation who invaded whom etc,then i could simply say that hey,we are here for almost 3.000 years.All the territory of Modern Hellas was and is ours,so shut the f**k up.But we both now,that this is not the case.All countries  fought to take lands.The result was Bulgaria's defeat ,both in Balkan Wars and WWI.And the result is what really matters.Bulgaria lost.That's what war means:somebody wins ,somebody looses.

 

If you ask me,i pretty much agree with this population exchange.If Bulgarians,other Slavs,or Muslims stayed in Hellenic Macedonia,and if Hellens stayed in Bulgaria and modern day F.Y.R.O.M after the end of WWI,we would still fighting for ages.

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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 14:44
And in the end,put your stupid ego back to your brains.It's not the country with the toughest military that matters.It's the country that can survive,with or without the best military forces.Hellas entered WWI ,while being in a Civil War situation.Our State was divided in 2 States,while the economy was devastated.Yet,we managed  to reach Western Thrace and fight against a unified enemy which was equipped and trained by the Germans.It's not our fault that your allies sucked.
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  Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 16:45
LOL 
 
Spartacus, with all my respect, do you really believe that Bulgarians were trained  berserks that fought against Hellens, the white knights, who were alone in this dark world? Wink You signifficantly oversimplify the situation.


Edited by Anton - 01-Nov-2006 at 17:47
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  Quote Isbul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Nov-2006 at 17:17
Ok it seems that its becoming quite hot so before something else happen:
 
And since the souternfront is too hot for my liking I'll move to the northen front and that is.On September 1 1916 Bulgaria declared war on Romania so a new front had been opened in Dobrudja.There there was Third bul. army wich included 4th-preslav division, Cavalary division and one brigade, and latter Firsy shop division.All toghether 100 000 men agains 150 000 romanians who were reinforced with 3 russian divisions.
The first objective was the capture of Tutrakan fortress.The fortress was A series of redoubts stationed in two lines with deep thrench between the lines.Agains its garrison of 63 000 men 4th preslav division(22 000).On 5 September the commander gen. Kiselov decided not to besige the fortress but to capture it with direct assalut.Around 100 guns of the division maneged to destroy a narrow part of the front.After that the bulgarians attacked and captured that part of the line.The romanians panic and left the whole first line.On 6 September reinforced the romanians tried to retake the first line.The attack was a complate failure and imidiate after the unsucsesfull attack 4th Pr. div. attaced the second line and captured it.Total around 30 000 romanians died 28 000 captured only 2000 escaped on the other side of Dunabe.For Bulgaria 1600 death and 6 300 wounded
My eyes are closing and perhaps tomorow I will proseed 
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  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 04:53
LOL,LOL,LOL!!!!!!Someone's blood is really up.Calm down man.So much emotions and irritation will cause you a heart attack.
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  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 05:05
If you want detailed information for war crimes during balkan wars read The Carnegie report.There you will see what we,you and serbs have done during wars.
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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-Nov-2006 at 06:31
I never said that Bulgarians are a sub-race.?Nope.Did i said that Bulgarians were berserkes and Hellens the white knights ?Nope.Did i mention any war crimes,?Nope.All these things are mentioned by you.Don't know why,maybe because you do not understand ,i do not know.Well,let me say again what i said previously,since you read only my very last post,as it seems,and ignoring the rest:
 

 

Bulgarian rebels?Rebels against whom?They were paramilitary forces guided by the Bulgarian goverment.The Slavic population was a majority in Northren Macedonia (Modern Day F.Y.R.O.M etc),but in the Southern Macedonia,which is Modern day Hellenic Macedonia ,the Hellenic population was the majority.Therefore,when the Hellenic Army reached the Macedonian territory,they found slavic populations,but fewer than the Hellenic ones.Those Bulgarians left the area after the Bulgarian defeat in WWI,under the treaty of Neigy ,according to which Hellenic populations of Bulgaria would be exchanged with  Bulgarian populations from Hellenic Macedonia.As it happened:50.000 Bulgarians left for Bulgaria and 30.000 Hellens came to Hellas from Southern Bulgaria (Fillipoupolis etc.).They were not massacred,they were not hunted down.They were simply exhanged.

 

Concerning the pact between Hellas and Serbia,it was a defensive aggreement,signed in 1913.And it was not a secret:If Serbia was attacked,then Hellas had to assist Serbia with it's own military.Of course,all three countries wanted more territories,but Bulgarian forces were the ones who firstly attacked at Hellenic military regiments.And then ,Hellens responded along with the Serbs,as their aggreement stated.Both wanted to isolate Bulgarian expansionism ,in their favor.It's politics my friend.Nothing peculiar.Every country defend it's own interests.That's what Hellas and Serbia did.It's not our fault that Bulgaria had to fight alone.

 

Now,all countries,Serbia-Hellas-Bulgaria wanted more territories.And all countries would shed their blood to take more territory.Bulgarians wanted to reach Thessaloniki and the Agean Cost,Serbs wanted the area around Monastiri,we wanted the area of Modern Day Western (Hellenic) and Eastern ( Turkish) Thrace.The complex of the Balkan wars,was that all three countries had their popualtions in the same area ,and they were all mixed up.So,it would be natural for them to end up fighting for a territory that everybody required for his own.

 

The deep meaning of all this:All three countries are in the same sh*t hole.All wanted more,and they fought for more.Bulgaria is not an exception.



Edited by Spartakus - 02-Nov-2006 at 06:34
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--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 07:05
The Bulgarians occupied Kavala illegally to force an exit to the Aegean, it was never included in the treaty against the Ottomans. This has always a strategic aim of the Bulgarian state since its ineption.
Also, Bulgaria was the big winner of the First Balkan War expanding the most in territory; then the others teamed up on her  to restore balance, so to speak.



Edited by konstantinius - 03-Nov-2006 at 07:08
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  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 10:13
Yes and serbia occupied illegaly the whole macedonia region and they violated the agreement.Lets not talk about the serbian terror in Macedonia.That was the reason why Bulgaria attack serbia.And we had right to take more lands because most of these territories were inhabite mostly by bulgarians.It was our right(I am talking about Macedonia).And you support a country which violeted the previous agreement,so you violeted it too.

I want to say that the reason for Second Balkan war was Macedonia,not our relationships with Greece.So that argue is a little bit unnessesary.
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  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 10:21
Originally posted by konstantinius


.Also, Bulgaria was the big winner of the First Balkan War expanding the most in territory; then the others teamed up on her to restore balance, so to speak.




Yes you teamed up because you and Serbia were too weak to face Bulgaria and you greedy wanted territories that was rightfully ours.In that time Bulgaria was more powerful and of course the weak will unite to remove the strong.Now it is different.But lets not discuss anymore Balkan wars.It is only a subject that cause hostility and a quarrel between all us.
    
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  Quote Brainstorm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 10:58
Bulgaria was a 30 years old small balcan state.
It was not the super-power of your dreams :-)

(and it was again and again defeated.)


Edited by Brainstorm - 03-Nov-2006 at 10:59
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  Quote Krum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Nov-2006 at 11:19
It was not a superpower but it was stronger than greece and serbia together.It was a fact.We lost thanks to stupid politicians and bad allies.How we like to say we won most of the battles but lost most of the wars.
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