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kotumeyil
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Topic: Kurdicization of Anatolia Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 07:12 |
Originally posted by Cent
PKK is a marxist party, which means they don't have religious belifs. Most Kurds are very religious and that's why they don't support PKK. I have kurdish friends who doesn't support PKK because they are marxists.
I'm not following the political game in Turkey, so I don't know much about the parties except PKK. Sorry.
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Since the 1990s PKK lost its Marxist character. Even before that most of its people had religious beliefs. They were mostly attracted because of its ethnic character...
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[IMG]http://www.maksimum.com/yemeicme/images/haber/raki.jpg">
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Shahanshah
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 08:46 |
I think this whole thing should be settle once and for all; the Turks should definitly let go of their racist ways (even though most disagree), turks in turkey should drop their all turkish identity of their country, and realize their country is a mulitcultural and mult-ethnic country
first step is that, then i think you should change your country's name to Anatolia or w/e that represents all the ethnicities. This wouldnt work unless turks drop their pan-turkish government and system.
same with iraq, now Iraq doesnt have to change its name (its name basically is an arabic (?) word drived from persian meaning land between two rivers , mesopotamia), but iraq should drop its pan-arab racist ways and system and realize iraq is not an arab country, same with syria, now syria doesnt have to change its name either. Both the names represent the land. but governments are very pan arab, well in iraq they used to be.
Iran should also drop its persian chuavinism and give kurds all of their rights.
either that or just give kurds their own state, or just give all of the kurdish areas to Iran.
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King of Kings, The Great King, King of the world.
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azimuth
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 08:48 |
why syria?
how many kurds are in syria?
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Shahanshah
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 08:54 |
kurds are actually part of syria, ,kurds in syria have a rich history, with salahedin ayubbi creating the syrian sultanate. anyway, although syria is bathist therofre pan-arab system, kurds in syria are pretty well treated (if you dont count the recent skirmishes and violence), kurds in syria had and i think still do many politicians in syria. i believe during assad's father's reign, there were many respected kurdish politicians. and kurdish soldiers also faught against israelis, there are some kurdish population around damascus.
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King of Kings, The Great King, King of the world.
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Mortaza
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 09:01 |
why should we give it Iran? Our kurdish cities dont rebel like Iranian kurdish city.
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baracuda
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 10:02 |
Shanshallah..
Being a 'Turk' is something to be proud of, as is being an 'Persian', we fought for these lands, and we live here because our forefathers gave up everything for this land, be they a prince, be they a beggar, our blood is on these lands in the turf itself.. We as 'turks' although might be of many ethnicities, are 'turks'. We will protect this land and our enemies land at all costs from any bands of unworthy theives..that have goals to high to fit their bill
So if anyone fantasizes to tear up Turkey, re-call it anatolia, tear up Iran, and Syria.. they will see that hell isnt that bad a place after all.
But if we fight with each other with these coutries it will be with dignaty and respect, against worthy opponents.
Edited by baracuda
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Maju
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 10:47 |
It's celar that multiethnic nation-states only work in Switzerland.
Kurds need their state... and they will achieve it eventually.
I find funny to read that turks fought for the land of Kurdistan. How
many non-military Turks are there in Kurdistan... they fought the crazy
wars of the Sultans... same for the other nationalities...
The only war Turks fought for their homeland (that is non-invasive) was
maybe the one against Greece... but even that can be seriously
disputed.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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Mortaza
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 10:56 |
Maju related to "what is homeland of Turks", one can call It anatolia, and another can call it, selanik.
so this is realy a comic statement.I think you are much pro-Turk.be try neutral.
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Guests
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 11:42 |
Maju, I see you are trying to have a "Che" image and a socialist view, but you cant succeed it unless you think fair. If all states were to give independence to their minorities, we would have 500 meaningless puppet colony states fullfilling our world today.
BTW, yes, Turkmens are a big population in Northern Iraq, and Kirkuk was a Turkmen city before the American policies of Kurdifying all the region to create their puppet Kurdish state and own all the petrol easily. They are victims of imperialism, so let your "just" view shine upon also Turkmens, instead of a proKurd mentality.
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Shahanshah
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 11:47 |
Originally posted by Oguzoglu
BTW, yes, Turkmens are a big population in Northern Iraq, and Kirkuk was a Turkmen city before the American policies of Kurdifying all the region to create their puppet Kurdish state and own all the petrol easily. They are victims of imperialism, so let your "just" view shine upon also Turkmens, instead of a proKurd mentality.
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you're joking right? how do you come up with all this crap? NO, turkomens in iraq are like 0.0001% of the population, and some live in kirkuk, doesnt make the city a torkaman city. kurds used to live there for thousands of years, and but since saddams murdurous campain they were forced out.
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King of Kings, The Great King, King of the world.
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Cent
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 11:49 |
Oguzoglu: You are so wrong, WE ARE 30-40 MILLION. Not some community of 500 people in Africa.
"BTW, yes, Turkmens are a big population in Northern Iraq, and Kirkuk was a Turkmen city before the American policies of Kurdifying all the region to create their puppet Kurdish state and own all the petrol easily"
Wrong! Turkmen are MINORITY. They don't have a big population there.
Prove that Americans used Kurds so it would get a puppet Kurdish state. That's your own opinion, you have no source.
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Guests
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 12:01 |
Attempts to change the demographic structure of Kirkuk city... |
Published: 15.10.2004
...by the American supported Kurds
SOITM, Nijmegen, 15.10.2004 -- After the war and occupation of Iraq by the Anglo-American forces in April 2003, the Kurdish political parties KDP and PUK who had supported it with their armed militias - for their own old political agenda to take control of Kirkuk province and its oil wealth - were rewarded for their collaboration with the Americans who allowed their militias to enter Kirkuk and perpetrate in this mainly Turkmen city the exactions, human rights abuses and looting that they allowed to happen in all other parts of what they called "liberated Iraq", as we have all seen on the TV screens last year.
One of the most dangerous acts of looting that took place in Kirkuk city after its tragic "liberation" was politically motivated; it targeted the city's Turkmen identity and its Turkmen population. It was committed by the Kurdish militias with the complicity of the American occupying forces who turned a blind eye to their exactions in the city.
As soon as the Kurdish militias entered the city they started looting and destroying the two most sensitive office buildings, namely the offices of civil population registrations and the offices of property and deeds registrations after seizing all the archives and registers.
This despicable and politically motivated act of looting of Kirkuk city's most important offices happened without much publicity. Their other aims being to take control of Kirkuk municipality and to be allowed to carry out a Kurdification policy in the Turkmen region.
Effectively, we have seen that the Americans have given the majority of the seats of the municipality council to the Kurds; even the post of mayor was given to a Kurd, despite the fact that the Kurds have never been the majority in Kirkuk. No doubt this was the Turkmen's share of the "democracy" promised by the Anglo-Americans to the Iraqi people!
Once the Kurdish controlled council of Kirkuk municipality was installed, the Kurdish majority started applying their policy of Kurdification of the Turkmen region in and around Kirkuk. Indeed, they brought in tens of thousands of Kurds from outside Kirkuk province, from Suleymaniya, Duhuk and even from Iran and Turkey. They provided them with logistic support to reach Kirkuk where they installed them not only in Kirkuk’s municipality properties and in Iraqi army buildings but also in Turkmen registered properties and lands.
These new Kurdish migrants to Kirkuk have been given financial help and incentives to start building houses in their new location in and around the city in order to change the demography and the ethnic composition of this Turkmen city and province in preparation for the upcoming census and elections.
All the above exactions continue to happen despite Turkmen denunciations, objections and demonstrations and despite their complaints to the Iraqi Interim Government and to the occupation authorities.
It is a well known fact that during the 1980s the Baath regime, in pursue of its Arabization policy of Kerkuk province, has confiscated Turkmen lands and homes and has destroyed and levelled to the ground more than 20,000 Turkmen houses, namely in the Turkmen populated sectors 39, 52 and 63 in the Old Tisin neighbourhood of Kirkuk.
Today, the Kurdish controlled municipality of Kirkuk is installing thousands of their new migrants whom they brought to Kirkuk in Turkmen areas which had been confiscated by the old regime, i.e.:
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The Officers Houses in the Al-Wasiti neighborhood.
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Hundreds of houses in region number 63 and Khalid Military Camp.
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Social Care Office houses in the al-Wasiti neighborhood, region number 39.
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Mikdad Center which is located in the Sikak Houses, region number 39
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The houses near the Northern Gas Company, Old Tisin region number 39.
All the above mentioned localities and regions are located in the Old Tisin neighborhoods of Kirkuk.
These new confiscations of Turkmen lands and properties are carried out by the Kurds with the full knowledge and tacit agreement of the occupation authorities, in contradiction with the basic principles of equity and human rights. |
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Cent
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 12:04 |
God damnit can you stop give us such rubbish. Give us REAL information instead. SOURCE?
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Cent
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 12:06 |
Paragraf 58 allows Kurds who were deported under Saddam's regime to come home again. What can't you understand?
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Tangriberdi
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 12:06 |
Originally posted by Shahanshah
I think this whole thing should be settle once and for all; the Turks should definitly let go of their racist ways (even though most disagree), turks in turkey should drop their all turkish identity of their country, and realize their country is a mulitcultural and mult-ethnic country |
What multiculturalism?
There are a few dominant ethnicities in Turkey( Kurds, Arabs, the Laz Bosnians and Albanians ), and the rest(Chechens, Cherkesian people, Muslim Georgians, Pomaks, Assyrians etc...) are very small in number and most of the both category consider themselves Turks in identity. Only separatist movement belongs to Kurds and other ethnicities have no demands of rights, they are happy with being Turks. And all ethnicities are now so remote from having distinct cultural features that they mixed their cultures with Turkish culture and Turkish culture became a mixture of all mentioned. So there is no multicultural structure in Turkey, there is rather an amalgam of cultures. So it makes only one culture: Anatolian Turkish culture. There is not such a mosaic of peoples in Turkey but a marmorization of peoples . If you go to Eastern Black Sea region whose inhabitants are mostly Islamicized and Turkicized Pontus Greeks and the Laz people and local Turks , you will see that that part of the country is the most Turkish nationalist of the whole Turkey. If you come towards Adana Mersin Antep Malatya regions you will see the same thing among the intermixed Arab Turkish and Kurdish populations. Each of them thins that Turkish identity is their own property. If you ask Albanians and Bosnians and Chechens and the Cherkesians about their identity they will answer you expressing that they are Turks and you will have to ask about their ethnicity. When you do this they will answer you unwillingly and angrily.Eventually Turkey's and its people's identity is definitely Turkish. All Turkish people are supporters of primarily being Turks and most of them are proud Turks. That is why Turkish identy is so dominant in Turkey not because of pressures and the dogmas of the system.
Originally posted by Shahanshah
first step is that, then i think you should change your country's name to Anatolia or w/e that represents all the ethnicities. This wouldnt work unless turks drop their pan-turkish government and system. |
Name of our country was given to us by Europeans even when Anatolia was still a country of Greeks and Armenians. Today, it reflects the real situation. It is Turks' land. Not other like . If you say something like that it is impossibe for me to think that you are not ill minded and malicioustowards Turkey and hostile towards Turks. Instead of saying this Turkey, go and say it to Greece, because there are lots of Turks Albanians and Slavs and Aroumanians living there. I can guess what will be their respond to you.
THAT WAS OFFENSIVE, I COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN
Originally posted by Shahanshah
either that or just give kurds their own state, or just give all of the kurdish areas to Iran. |
At that point I totally agree with you. I am a suppoter of an independent Kurdistan or a Kurdistan which is under the same roof of All Iranians. Of course the right of Historical Turkish Cities (Ardahan, Kars, Igdir, Van, Tatvan, Erzurum, Erzincan, Gaziantep, Adiyaman, Malatya) has to be reserved by TURKEY. I mean those mendtioned cities have to remain in Turkey. Under thse circumstances A United Kurdistan can be founded or Kurdistan can be integrated to other Iranian sisters.( But in this case Iran shall give South Azerbaijan to Turkey, because Iranian Azerbaijan is a Turkic countryjust like Nort Azerbaijan which was a former Soviet Republic.) It is their own business. I just oppose to Kurdicization in Turkey.
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The Hidden Face
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 12:07 |
Originally posted by strategos
we must talk of the Turkanization of the whole of Anatolia.. |
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Cent
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 12:07 |
azimuth: 1 to 1.5 million, they live in the northeastern part of Syria.
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Cent
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 12:10 |
"So it makes only one culture: Anatolian Turkish culture. "
Yeah, there is no Kurdish culture, right?
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They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
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Tangriberdi
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 12:12 |
Originally posted by Mortaza
why should we give it Iran? Our kurdish cities dont rebel like Iranian kurdish city.
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Are you sure about that, PKK movement is an Anatolian Kurdish movement aiming Independence. Maybe they cannot rebel city by city being afraid of the power of Turkey, and of suppressed dramatically. Kurds are Ancient Iranians as they say, that is why to be given to Iran. In the treat between Persia and Ottomans borders were decided in accordance with religious sect not with the cultural identity.
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Shahanshah
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Posted: 09-Aug-2005 at 12:14 |
kirkuk is a kurdish city, end of story, and i hope kurdish population rises so much in turkey that kurds become the majority, that way kurds can crush pan-turkist system of that country. ahha, who would have thought having sex would get what Kurds wanted than shooting up AKs.
kurds, enjoy this take over, make sure your women enjoy the procedures first then go for the out-burst.
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King of Kings, The Great King, King of the world.
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