It can be easily detected in Ottoman, Iranian and Russian documents that Eastern Anatolia has begun to be Kurdicized in late 1650s. Before that there were only Assyrians Armenians  Arab Turkish and some Greek settlements in the region(only Kurds in the region was around Colemerg (now Hakkari). The ottoman policy was Sunnitizing the region against the Iranian Shia peril. In order to that Shia and Alawite Turkmen population of the region was exposed to serious pressures, massacres and exiles. So the region was evicted from Shia elements amd in place of Shia Turkmens Sunnite Kurds were invited to the region by the Ottomans. And then properties and territories of Turkmens were given to Kurds and especially to their feodal lords. These lords(aqas) tortured Turks in the region and led them to go out of the region and sparse towards south or  east and the rest to be assimilated by Kurds. Many of them sent to the Cyprus and the Balkans.  Until 1900s things went on. And that ever-mentioned Armenian holocaust( and according to some others it was just a replacement) broke out. And the villages, towns and cities where Armenians evacuated were captured by Kurds and so Kurdicization and Kurdification of the Eastern Anatolia was almost complete except some Turkish cities which still remained. Now it was out of contol of Ottomans too.

During the events between 1900-1940 Kurds captured the cities Diyarbakir, and Urfa completely and Van, Erzincan  and some other small towns partially.

When the Turkish republic was declared, Turkey was a country which lost 25% of her proper territory  to a 5% population, Kurds.

By time going process did not cease. Kurds were being spread towards cities like  Ardahan Kars Igdir South of Erzurum, Marash, Malatya , Adiyaman and towards some other small towns of the region by 1960 when Kurds stared to go further west. At the same time they produced dramatically.

Today 28% (estimates changing) of Turkish population of Turkey and 40%of its territory is belonging to Kurds and there is no Turkish city that has no Kurdish immigrants. Estimates shows that 48% of Turkish pop. will have consisted of Kurds by 2050 and ethnic Turks will be a minority in their own country. SO THE BIG LIE THAT KURDS TELL ABOUT THAT ANATOLIA IS A 4000- YEAR KURDISH LAND APPEAR What do you think about that?

What are you talking about? Kurds have been in that area much longer than Turks. Kurds are the ones who are getting assimiliated by Turks.

Turks are bringing Kurds to the major cities in Turkey, because they want to assimiliate them.

The Genocide against Armenians was commited by the Ottoman Empire, plus Kurdish bandits, not the Kurdish people.

And all those statistics are your own assumptions, give me real data.

"When the Turkish republic was declared, Turkey was a country which lost 25% of her proper territory  to a 5% population, Kurds."

What territories? They are still Turkish. After WW1 the french and brits, promised us a State in Eastern Anatolia, but that was later forgotten when Ataturk intervened.

If Kurds have been in that area much longer than Turks please can you give me some examples of bridges, cisterns, baths and other buildings built in the region by Kurds. Are there any?. You tell a lie and then believe in that by yourselves too. The proper name of  Kurds appears in 900s.  The first Kurds in Eastern Anatolia are told to be nomads which migrating bewteen  winter lands and summer lands. And everyone interested in Iranology knows well that homeland of Kurds is Zagros mountains. They are in Iran not in Anatolia.

Well whatever happened, it happened under Turkish Ottoman rule. It's funny how you are demonizing the existence of Kurds in Anatolia.

Even if true, do you know people use the same arguments against Turks in Anatolia and Iran? You say the real home of Kurds is in Iran, some people say the real home of Turks is in Mongolia.

It is a stupid argument.

With Ottoman/Turk support, I assume.

How do you define that? Kurds have never had (at least in recent history) a state of their own... how could Turkey loss territory to Kurds if they didn't even have a state or an army to take them?

So Kurds grow more quickly than Turks... and they don't let themselves Turkicize easily...

You have it easy: set a border near the Euphrates and keep the Kurds in Kurdistan by denying them Turk citizenship and the right to migrate to Turkey. Imperialism may backfire, you know.

Well, it seems that (according to your own reasoning) we should soon be calling Turkey Kurdistan... hummm...

Well it may be that we have to call Germany New Turkey too... times are changing, LOL!

I think that Kurds are there since before Turks, as Indo-Iranian migrations are earlier than those of Turks, who just came to Anatolia since 1000 CE. Nothing against Turks but really I can't bear imperialist nations weeping that other nations they hold subjugated are growing or demanding their rights. It's like Serbians complaining of Albanians...

"So if these people they want to call themselves 'kurds', then let them"

You speak of us like we were made up... We are indo-europeans from Zagros mountains.

Of course you are, no one denies it.

Turks arent totally new in Anatolia. The descendents of the indegenious people consist an impotant part of Anatolian gene pool, so we partly, originally belong to Anatolia.

That is funny. Greeks have never reached eastern Anatolia, by settlements. There were no Greeks living beyond Aegean region during the Byzanthine region, except a minor ethnic Greek settlement in Cappadocia and Greek colony of Trebizond. Southeastern Anatolia (Northern Mesopotamia was shared btw Assyrians and Kurds.

If you mean Zeugma, the Roman city, its inhabitants werent Greeks.

Eastern Anatolia was a region where Armenians, Kurds and Turks were living together before the Armenian exiles. Today, Kurds have policies of settling and expanding all over Eastern Anatolia, including once non-Kurdish regions of north of Lake Van so that they can consist the dominant population there.

What I don't understand is how can a population without any legal representation that promotes repopulation of certain areas go unopposed in a country like Turkey.  Who organises it? Don't tell me PKK, becuase if it was, the Turkish authorities would not hesitate in stopping these "resettlements".

This sounds like the paranoid nonsense one can read here: http://www.stormfront.org/forum - www.stormfront.org/forum

If we talk of the Kurdanization of Eastern Anatolia, we must talk of the Turkanization of the whole of Anatolia..

On many ancient maps of years ago, I really never do see Kurds anywhere, on either ancienct maps or maps 200-1000 years back.. and i have wondered my times why not, unless they migrated sometime sooner to now..

Tangriberdi

Sorry this is a scientific discussion ,there is three room that you can discuss there about politics. Here I just discuss about historical facts in your article.

At least in Arabic and Persian sources that I have access to them presence of kurds in all of eastern Anatolia much before that time is proven,for example:
Foma metsopi (an Armenian historian in beginning of the 15th century)in the wars between Teimur and Qara mahmud many times mentions the kurds and their role in the war .(this book originally was written in middle age Armenian but it was translated to Russian in 1951 and then translated from russian  to Azeri in 1957 and then from Azeri to Persian in 1973)
We know that ancestors of Badr khan known as rulers Of Jazir ruled Butan province from 14th century.
We know that Shadadian a Kurdish tribe in Armenia that were very powerful tribe and also they had a dynasty in Aran(present day republic of Azerbaijan).
We know that Artuqs were considered invincible because they heavily used the Kurdish tribes that were in their territory,(Ibn Asir )
When Shah Ismael knew that Sultan Selim could reach Chaldran, he became angry and asked How he could pass such a long journey from Kurdish lands without any loss and his ministers reminded him that he himself beheaded 19 kurd emirs and thats why they all united with othmans.(refer to Habib-o-seyr Book3 chapter 4 from khund mir grand son of the  Mir Khund famous historian of Timurian and Qaraquyunlu time)
And in the last:
Shrafkhan e Betlisi in 1594 wrote a book which named Sharafname-ye-Betlisi in this book which has two part, in part two he elaborately discusses about history of Kurdish emirates which most of them are in Eastern Anatolia from 13th century until his own time, and their role in Ilkahnid, jalayerid, Qazi Burahan, Teymurid and Qara quyunlu dynasty, in war beween Iran and Othaman and so on……
This book is classic and If you don’t know it , I don’t know how do you dare to discuss about this part of history so bravely.

Arab settled between Kurdish tribes, ?(history of Tabari) to spread of Islam between them.Turks only enteredin the end of 11th century .there is no doubt that northern land of present day  Kurdistan  was mainely Armenian (for example majority of cities that start with Ar) It is assumed that Kurds with Saljuqs entered Armenian lands.

Realy ridiculous reasoning.It is claimed that in 9th and 10th century oghuz tribes lived in a plain between Aral sea and Caspian sea, south of Qipchaqs, ok could you refrain that claim because there is no pyramid or cathedral or theater or museum that was built by oghuz tribes.!!!!

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3503&PN=2 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3503& ;PN=2

I am interested in Iranology and know that the so called eastern anaotolia only annexed to Othmans in 16th century.

Conclusion:

In the last you want to say something but you don’t know or don’t want to say , basically it is Armenian claim, They say that the cities that their names start with Ar are Armenian names like :Arzab, Arzancan, Arzurum, Arcis,…..and kurds entered in this area by the help of Saljuqs because Saljuqs wanted to weaken the power of Armenian Barons and military families so they used Kurds as allies and introduced them In Armenian land, Arab nationalists also claim that introduction of Kurds in Syria specially in western Syria (Golan heights or Kurd Daghi) was again took place in time of Saljuqs.(How bad were these Saljuqs)
There is one criticism, what about Ravadi Kurds who lived in Ani in times of Bagratuni Family and later formed the dynasty of Shadadian of Ani?may be kurds at that time were minority and later with help of Saljuqs they start mass migrating towards Armenian lands,All of these are hidden in the Armenian and Byzanthian books and I don’t think nobody here knows middle age Armenian and Byzanthian Greek language.

Baracuda

Make us a favour and don’t boast too much, …………!!!!!
And swords are useless against Kurds....
modern weapons don't give you poetic feelings.
look at this sentence

Turk is a bred warrior, we'll pick up our G-3 and MK-3 and F-16s and Leopard Tanks and Cobra helicpters and enter the middle east.

I am sorry but from literary point of view the above sentence gives no sense of championship.

I realy don’t know what you mean by north of Van lake and in what period and by the true meaning of Kurdsih region, I simply have no knowledge about Turkey in 20th century and late Othman empire, …

I know Erzurum was never a predominantly  Kurdish city, but If you read jauber book in 1805 he described in chapter three that in and  around Arzurum he came across many kurds and specially yazidies, and also saw Armenians that were looted by kurds.
If you mean Mush, well just look at sharafnameye betlisi to read about governors of Mush, which was kurd in his time.
About Agri or Aghri there is no doubt It was predominantly an Armenian city but again Armenian say that the residents of there were always were invaded by kurds,
Bayazid or nowadays DoghuBayazit was a Kurdish city in times of Jauber and pasha of that pashalik was hereditary between a Kurdish family.the most famous Kurdish poet Ahmad-e-khani who lived in 17th century , was born and lived in this city.

Of course these are old datas and maybe they are changed in 20th century, I don’t know there is any source that could provide the distribution of kurds in 20th century in Turkey because I don’t believe in the figures that are available in internet.(They are exaggerated)

Strategos

Maps usually show major political states not ethnicities not minor states,and it must be noted that they are drawn to give a overal feeling of that time , if you want to know deeply about a historical perios of a specific region , you must refer to original sources,discussion about kurds have been done in this discusion.
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3503&PN=2 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3503& ;PN=2

Maju:

name of kurdistan is being mentioned in begining of the 12th century but what is real border of this region it is not clear, for a rough consideration please refer to book of "Voyage en Armenie et en Perse" by P.A.Jaubert in Paris I don't know exact date of publication but this books is transactions of jaubert in 1805-1807 in Iran and Othmans.I think you can find it in your local library.For kurds refer to chapter 10.

hope this will help

http://www.atlas-of-conflicts.com/areas/armenia-and-karabakh/armenia-monturk.php - http://www.atlas-of-conflicts.com/areas/armenia-and-karabakh /armenia-monturk.php

16th Century: Partition of Armenian Lands Between Ottoman Turkey and Safavid Iran

	Historical Armenian Territory with Heavy Armenian Presence in the 16th Century
	Ottoman Empire by 1515
	Safavid Empire by 1499
	Georgian Feudal States by 1634
	Five Principalites of Karabakh, the Last Relict of Armenian Statehood
	Ottoman Conquest in the 1st Quarter of the 16th Century
	Safavid Conquests in 1500
	Georgian Losses to the Ottomans in 1635
	Modern Armenia & Karabakh
	Ottoman Conquests in the 2nd Quarter of the 16th Century
	Safavid Losses in 1535

as you can see there is kurdistan.

No I am not. I am just recognizing their existence. but I have to reveal that Kurds(as residents not nomads, there were of course Kurds in Anatolia before Turks but they are not resided there , they used there as a nomadic plato  introduced to Anatolia as residents and dwellers after Turks or along side Turks.

In terms of ethno-demographic expansion and majority of population not of statehood.

Originally posted by Maju So Kurds grow more quickly than Turks... and they don't let themselves Turkicize easily...

That is true, and assimilating is out of question. Question is that Kurds assimilating Turks in the region. They increase more than Turks and Kurdish lebensraum is spread gradually. Today there are Turks in thye region whose mother tongue is Kurmanji. These people remember that their great grandfaters once spoke Turkish. 

I would think the same thing if it was possible. Intermarrige is so frequent among Turks and Kurds that such a separation and sending Kurds in Western Anatolia and giving them independence in Eastern Anatolia except the cities like Ardahan, Kars, Igdir, Agri, Van, Erzurum, Erzincan,Malatya, Adiyaman is almost impossible. Conjuncture of ongoings makes that impossible.

Originally posted by Maju Well, it seems that (according to your own reasoning) we should soon be calling Turkey Kurdistan... hummm...

Originally posted by Maju I think that Kurds are there since before Turks, as Indo-Iranian migrations are earlier than those of Turks, who just came to Anatolia since 1000 CE. Nothing against Turks but really I can't bear imperialist nations weeping that other nations they hold subjugated are growing or demanding their rights. It's like Serbians complaining of Albanians...

As far as I know yes, there were Indo European people(even Iranic tribes whose descendents are most probably Zazas) but they were not Kurds.

only by language, other aspects of culture makes you seem to be a mix of Pers-Arabo Turkic elements. Also there have been so many other tribes and people melt into Kurdish pot, which in number they were more than ethnic Kurds. Today they are many people who consider themselves as Kurds just because of their linguistic heritage, ignoring Arab, Armenian and Turkish origins. So yes we can say that you are made up just like Anatolian Turks recreated by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.

Impossible, the Eastern Anatolia is an underdevelopped  region of Turkey, so people there must go somewhere elses instead of starving there. Also as Kurds equal citizens under the title Turks, they have right to go and settle anywhere in Turkey according to our laws. And there is no problem between ethnic Turks and ethnic Kurds in Turkey. They share the same faith. Yes this demographic expansion and increase in number are organized by Kurdish nationalists and ,in particular, by PKK. Many Kurdish intellectuals say that Are Kurds as fools as leaving all these fetile soils to Turks and go back to Eastern Anatolia, As Diyarbakir Mus, Siirt, Hakkari belong to us, Istanbul, Izmir, Adana, Bursa, Ankara too , belog to us. We have rights in anatolia as much as Turks.

I think that is a planned organization of capturing Anatolia from Turks.

Originally posted by Shahanshah hope this will help http://www.atlas-of-conflicts.com/areas/armenia-and-karabakh/armenia-monturk.php - http://www.atlas-of-conflicts.com/areas/armenia-and-karabakh /armenia-monturk.php 16th Century: Partition of Armenian Lands Between Ottoman Turkey and Safavid Iran Historical Armenian Territory with Heavy Armenian Presence in the 16th Century Ottoman Empire by 1515 Safavid Empire by 1499 Georgian Feudal States by 1634 Five Principalites of Karabakh, the Last Relict of Armenian Statehood Ottoman Conquest in the 1st Quarter of the 16th Century Safavid Conquests in 1500 Georgian Losses to the Ottomans in 1635 Modern Armenia & Karabakh Ottoman Conquests in the 2nd Quarter of the 16th Century Safavid Losses in 1535 as you can see there is kurdistan.

as you can see there is Kurdistan south to Van Lake. Not in Anatolia.

Problem is neither history nor Kurds,

problem is massive and fast

Kurdicization of Anatolia in this century

I want your opinions about that!!!

Baracuda, those are other different aspects of the facts we are facing, I think fast and massive Kurdicization is threating Turkishness of present time Anatolia, I would like to know about your opinions concerning solving such a big evlolution without behaving opposedly to Universal Human Rights and Democracy.

There are some historical facts . One of them is that Kurds have never been settled in Anatolia before Turks. And this fact is being changed under the frame of a fake history supported by some environments. And this change is operational and practical. What shall we do against this.

Anatolia is our homeland. Now there is almost no Greek and Armenian in Anatolia.. Do not be ridiculous . On the territories of Anatolia there is still blood prints of millions of Turks at least 1000 yrs. 

A Kurd saying that give Anatolia greeks and Armenians cannot be resident of Anatolia for thousands of years.

As I said before they came to Anatolia after Turks. And that is why they can takl so easily.

Forget  about it. Anatolia belongs to Turks and will remain so.

good point, It  is not important who settled before to anatolia, but It is important who live now at  anatolia.

But kurds should accept  their ethnic number and effect is not  decrasing in anatolia but increasing.

Yes you can do, after killing thousands of Armenians in the region and then blaming Turks of this. After killing and deporting of thousands of Assyrians in the region. After killing thousands of Turks and Turkish military members in the region. And still killing.

Now you can talk about democracy.

It would be unscientific to deny Greeks and Armenians were the first , Anatolia is still full of their remnants.

Did we kill them or convert them into Islam and asimilate them, which one ? and more than 1.5 greek were deported to present time Greece in early 1900s . That means we did not kill Greeks.

Armenians. No Genocide but a Relocation and a war between two nations and deaths of thousands from both side.

History can trace back all events but not Existence of Kurds in Anatolia until Turks came.

partiallyagree with you. but it is out of Topic, I guess.

What about French and Russian provoked Armenian gangs, Dashnak and Hynchak etc...

What about French and Russian provoked Armenian gangs called Dashnaks and Hynchaks which killed many Turks and Kurds around.

Shhhhhhhhhhhh

okay I have to totally disagree with this thread about kurdization of anatolia. its actually the other way around. many kurds are forced from kurdish areas out of despair looking for better jobs and better life because of the harsh conditions due to years of neglect, war, and turkification (?), and go to the western country, the turks are growing even more in kurdish lands, kurds in western country are being assimilated through time into turkish societies.

its the other way around okay people, the kurds are starting to lose their "lands" and many are losing their identity, and every year starting from outer shells of turkey "kurdistan", the population is becoming more turkish than kurdish.

Now, how and why on earth did you people think that anatolia is becoming more kurdish???

Well, in fact, we are partly the first inhabitants of Anatolia, since e partly own the indegenious blood of it...

If you are a true ignorant about some issues, just dont use them to support your purpose. Greeks were just sea people colonizing Anatolia, they definately dont originally belong here. And even if they belonged, it wouldnt matter. Time changes, people change, people conquer, people lose.

About Armenians, well, all before Urartu, Phyrgians, Lydians etc., there were Hittites ruling Anatolia. And before them, the first inhabitants, "Hatti"s were all around Anatolia. Anatolia was, as Sumerians called, "Land of Hatti". And those people werent even Indo-European...

Well, what about you getting the hell out of Anatolia and go back to Zagros, give Eastern Anatolia back to Armenians, who your gangs and even civilians wildly massacred during the exile, to own the dominant population of Eastern Anatolia? I think that would be more fair.

I think I dont have to repeat myself again. Anyway, letting us massacre Kurds from Sweden should be easy for you, maybe you may come sometime and have a look at where and which conditions do your bros live in...

! I've read that they even claim rights on Anatolia, as they say "Land of Hittites" in their holy book. I wonder how could people create the term "imperialism" long before the existance of empires such purposes. Anyway, as we say in Turkey "Gelecekleri varsa görecekleri de var."...

I cannot understand how a Kurd can be so anti Turk? Remember that Kurds also take their place as soldiers in ottoman Army. It is that what we did is also what you did. you now quit the claims on Anatolia and start blaming Turks instead of trying to prove your existence in Anatolia before Turks? Of course you did. Because you have no certain document to prove it.

Do not distort the truth. Kurds in Anatolia in any case do not decrease in number but increase. And Kurds in western Anatolia are not assimilated they kepp their cultures in all asoects and they make it accepted by Turks as well. For example folk dance: Halay, Culinary culture: Lahmacun and Cig Kofte

Because my friend, It  is not just kurds but also Turks went to big cities,So Kurdish land  endured as kurd, but cities are changing.best example is  sirt, It was a arabic  city,  but now It is  kurdish.  And  In big cities  they dont loose their ethics. Population increase of Kurds are much more  than Turks, Population ratios are changing for benefit of Kurds, so cant we  say, anatolia becoming more kurdish.?

 the turks are growing even more in kurdish lands,

And  I  dont know, why you said  this? I mostly love comments without knowledge. I know my country better than you. Kurdish lands are poor, so  There is no reason for Turks to settle there. Even Doctors and others are going there mostly because Turkey force them. If  turkey dont force them,That land will be forgiven by kurds.

Lahmacun is an ancient Middle Eastern food, it isnt any related or doesnt belong to Turks or Kurds. It originated in Mesopotamia, probably by Babylonians. About çið köfte, well, it is also a Mesopotamian dish, doesnt specifically belong to Kurds.

And Halay was a general Anatolian dance, doesnt belong to Kurds, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs, Georgians, Cubans etc. It belongs to Anatolia, so practically, it belongs to us...

That is all true. Poor Eastern Anatolia is like a Kurd-breeding factory. It loses population but it always produce Kurds and sends them to western Anatolia which is primarily Turkish. Eastern Anatolia is not Turkicized . It remains Kurdish but Western Antolia is Kurdicized gradually step by step and as you said population ratios change for benefit of Kurds.

Kurds do not have children more than two in most cases thinking their children's future and education . because of economical problems. Kurds have no such an idea. They have children without the consideration of future.

A Turk has two children A Kurd has 10 children. That is the problem. They have 10 children from each wife(poligamy is accepted among Kurds) And then they complain about poverty and claim that the state do not invest in Eastern Anatolia.

I think this is a planned policy among Kurds in order to capture all Turkey and make it great Kurdistan. As Abdullah Ocalan said once: Embrace your wife or your weapon.

That is the policy.

Heard about Halay in Aegean or Mediaterranean or Black Sea or marmara regions 40 yrs ago?

No this is a new adoption from Kurds. It is not Anatolian. It is Kurdish.

Maybe Turks neighbouring Kurds in Eastern Anatolia had accepted it. But it is something new for Western Anatolia.

Know the truth. and that is the truth.

I think this is a planned policy among Kurds in order to capture all Turkey and make it great Kurdistan. As Abdullah Ocalan said once: Embrace your wife or your weapon.

That is the policy

Dont  be  stupid. This is most comic  thing  I ever  saw.What we will do, we  will  agains this politic? Embrace our wife? absurd.

Cent  I dont afraid from them,  If  their loyalty is with  Turkey,  I dont  see any different between a turk or  a kurd. If  they want to  divide some of my country,Again I dont  see any  different between a turk or a kurd.

And I said it wasnt that way. Read my posted reply.

http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4865& ;PN=1&TPN=2 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4865& ; ;PN=1&TPN=2

In the site above Cent confirms :

Kurds have a good ideology, come settle and claim rights.

Right...

What many people cannot understand that Kurds are not loyal to Turkey and Turks, and that  they try to do their bests to capture our lands.

What Kurds do in Anatolia:

Migration

Theft

Robbery

Anarchy

Rebellion

Increse in number

Killing Turks

Threatening local Turks and make them escape where they have resided for hundreds of years.

Political marches to set free a terrorist, killer.

They have more rights in Turkey than ethnic Turks have.

All can be said for turks too.

I dont think,  standart people have much political aim in long  run (like  300-500 year). I think you should change  your racist looking to  Kurds.

 ***edited for racist remarks***

you are someone called barbarian(I am sure they will call themself as realist) by others,and now  you call  kurds as barbarian.

I dont like Turks who is racist. This is not the  way of turks. We always lived with others.

I am not really sure how to prove I am not racist towards Kurds. But It is  a fact they are in Druggery, Traffickery, Mafia, Terrorism Robbery. European friends can also confirm me.

There are also Turks in bad jobs. But not organizedly as much as Kurds.

When they do a bad thing they say they are Turks.  And when a Kurd from Turkey did something bad it is labelled as Turk. But if he does a good thing he is anounced a Kurd.

These are the bare facts.

tangriberdi

you are not racist, i believe you, but you have a Kurdophobic schizophrenic illness caused by panturkism. sorry i dont mean to be offensive by anyway, but im very concerned about you. this kind of behaviour will lead to W.T.S. brain disorder.

W.T.S. : Western Turkic Syndrom

im sure i have mentioned this before and i have diagnosed one fella turk brother (oguzoglu) with it.

Im not trying to be offensive or racist by any way i should stress this again. but i am very concerned about you

also i have to stress concern about another turkish friend :

Alparslan, his condition is somewhat conflicting tho, i have to keep my eyes on him, to detect more signs of the illness W.T.S.,

again im not trying to be offensive, if I have offended anyone, I apologize dearly, but I stress those who I have mentioned to get help immediatly.

if you want more information on W.T.S. i posted about before on this forum in iranian history section, go and find it. unless it got deleted.

Im not trying to be offensive or racist or any way i should stress this again. but i have very conserned about you

No you are  trying to be stupid.You  are  as racist as him. W.T.S?  why  dont you  play with sand?

again im not trying to be offensive, if have offended anyone, i apologize dearly

If  you  dont know you offended  us, you are more stupid than I  think.You need that help for you

By the way, I  am nor trying to be offensive,If I  have offended you by calling you stupid, I apologis dearly.

But I think  you need  medical help.

Stupid

Thanks a lot. I appreciate your diagnosis. I accept it may be true.

But as a doctor, can you explain ?

You cannot get over a syndrom before terminating symptoms  causing that syndrom am I right? External effects cause to illness. Struggling with these external effects will lead you to get rid of the illness mentally and bodily. 

Remedy for a case like me is stopping Kurdish terrorism in Turkey-I do not think I can get better when my four or five soldiers are dying every day.- , stopping Kurdish increase in Turkey, stopping Kurds in Turkey to commit guilts. Stopping Kurds to claim rights on Anatolia unrightfully.

I am waitng for your comments and recommendations for all mentioned topics. Doctor!

Love

Calling some people racist or stupid is rude and does not solvethe existing problems.

Believe in me when I am writing these all I am not ill intened. I am just trying to reveeal some facts. I want to discuss, not to curse each other please CALM DOWN.

Tangriberdi wrote:

***Tangriberdi's post was edited for racist remarks***

Can an Admin please check this out! As a Kurd I'm getting very offended.

You can talk all bad things about Turks and Turkey and you can attack in so disgusting ways to our rights and complain about us to Your European brothers and protectors.

No one says something.

But if someone comes and reveals your true face and facts about you , you cry out like right that . that is it.

I am consent to all measures to be4 taken agaist me if I deserved. But these all are the bare truth.  What I write has no insult in it. It is not offensive or embracing. JUST BARE FACTS

Please guys, end this nonsense discussion or the topic will be locked. Calm down, all of you...

Tangriberdi, dont make offensive claims. All Kurds dont do such dirty jobs, there are also lots of Turks doing those. You cant blame all Kurds for those, just like we cant blame, or generalize all Muslims as terrorists, or all Christians as butchers. That is stupid.

Well said...

Shahanshah,

Since my post is edited by a mod, I wont be able to tease you as I wish, but I just want to help you, I believe it's my misson as a potential doctor. So as I described the symptoms, thereasons and the possible effects of your illness before "see: inferiority complex syndrome", I'll just give you this useful  http://www.enema-web.com/clyster.html - link for everyday usage...

You will all relax and have a civilazed conversation or this thread will be locked.

Some of you have already been warned in the past, about your behaviour. Don't push it now!

PS

Cent, that goes for you too.

Information posted by the said user has been of equally low quality, I made a general statement applicable to all dubious sounding posts.

In fact for this we  have not much proof, Kurd population is growing more than Turks.  isnt this  enough cent?

Mortaza: there are about 15-20 million Kurds in Turkey, and how many Turks? 40-50? That's twice as many Turks. So don't be afraid Turkey will stay intact - for now...

Cent, I dont care If all anatolia becomes kurd.I am just talking about reality. Kurds are not so much bad position as you  stated(they have effect with Turkish politics too) and  I dont think there is 15-20 million kurd in turkey. Hadep get just 5% 6%. If there is 20 million  kurds, She should  take 33%.(Akp get 34%)

Or other  alternatives, just 1/5 (6/30) kurds support ethnic kurdish party. So Kurds are happy at Turkey. So pls dont speak for kurds.80% of  them dont like PKK and we are not sure all of Hadep voter like PKK.

which alternative you liked?

PKK is a marxist party, which means they don't have religious belifs. Most Kurds are very religious and that's why they don't support PKK. I have kurdish friends who doesn't support PKK because they are marxists.

I'm not following the political game in Turkey, so I don't know much about the parties except PKK. Sorry.

Cent, so that is the point, we are against PKK, not kurds. At least  much of us.(Every race has her facists)

I wish kurds becomes prosperous, and live their culture. we have democracy, I am sure It have some mistakes, but Kurds can get their politic aims with the democracy.So I wish they follow way of democracy.

Noone can refused someone because he is kurd. For leyla Zana and others(they were from hadep),  we think they  are toy of PKK. You can find a lot kurdish politician at others  party.(For  ex:AKP)

Of course nothing is perfect but I think everything is improving in Turkey.Do you know Army want  more power because of Last PKK attacks? They  think new laws are limiting them. So  I dont think PKK is helping Kurdish people.It is trying to destroy friendship between Turks and Kurds.

Since the 1990s PKK lost its Marxist character. Even before that most of its people had religious beliefs. They were mostly attracted because of its ethnic character... 

I think this whole thing should be settle once and for all; the Turks should definitly let go of their racist ways (even though most disagree), turks in turkey should drop their all turkish identity of their country, and realize their country is a mulitcultural and mult-ethnic country

first step is that, then i think you should change your country's name to Anatolia or w/e that represents all the ethnicities. This wouldnt work unless turks drop their pan-turkish government and system.

same with iraq, now Iraq doesnt have to change its name (its name basically is an arabic (?) word drived from persian meaning land between two rivers , mesopotamia), but iraq should drop its pan-arab racist ways and system and realize iraq is not an arab country, same with syria, now syria doesnt have to change its name either. Both the names represent the land. but governments are very pan arab, well in iraq they used to be.

Iran should also drop its persian chuavinism and give kurds all of their rights.

either that or just give kurds their own state, or just give all of the kurdish areas to Iran.

why syria?

how many kurds are in syria?

why should we give it Iran? Our kurdish cities dont rebel like Iranian kurdish city.

Maju related to "what is homeland of Turks", one can call It anatolia,  and  another can call it, selanik.

so this is realy a comic statement.I think you are much pro-Turk.be try neutral.

Maju, I see you are trying to have a "Che" image and a socialist view, but you cant succeed it unless you think fair. If all states were to give independence to their minorities, we would have 500 meaningless puppet colony states fullfilling our world today.

BTW, yes, Turkmens are a big population in Northern Iraq, and Kirkuk was a Turkmen city before the American policies of Kurdifying all the region to create their puppet Kurdish state and own all the petrol easily. They are victims of imperialism, so let your "just" view shine upon also Turkmens, instead of a proKurd mentality.

you're joking right? how do you come up with all this crap? NO, turkomens in iraq are like 0.0001% of the population, and some live in kirkuk,  doesnt make the city a torkaman city. kurds used to live there for thousands of years, and but since saddams murdurous campain they were forced out.

Oguzoglu: You are so wrong, WE ARE 30-40 MILLION. Not some community of 500 people in Africa.

"BTW, yes, Turkmens are a big population in Northern Iraq, and Kirkuk was a Turkmen city before the American policies of Kurdifying all the region to create their puppet Kurdish state and own all the petrol easily"

Wrong! Turkmen are MINORITY. They don't have a big population there.

Prove that Americans used Kurds so it would get a puppet Kurdish state. That's your own opinion, you have no source.

God damnit can you stop give us such rubbish. Give us REAL information instead. SOURCE?

Paragraf 58 allows Kurds who were deported under Saddam's regime to come home again. What can't you understand?

What multiculturalism?

There are a few dominant ethnicities in Turkey( Kurds, Arabs, the Laz Bosnians and Albanians ), and the rest(Chechens, Cherkesian people, Muslim Georgians, Pomaks, Assyrians etc...)  are very small in number and most of the both category consider themselves Turks in identity. Only separatist movement belongs to Kurds and other ethnicities have no demands of rights, they are happy with being Turks. And all ethnicities are now so remote from having distinct cultural features that they mixed their cultures with Turkish culture and Turkish culture became a mixture of all mentioned. So there is no multicultural structure in Turkey, there is rather an amalgam of cultures. So it makes only one culture: Anatolian Turkish culture. There is not such a mosaic of peoples in Turkey but a marmorization of peoples . If you go to Eastern Black Sea region whose inhabitants are mostly Islamicized and Turkicized Pontus Greeks and the Laz people and local Turks , you will see that that part of the country is the most Turkish nationalist of the whole Turkey. If you come towards Adana Mersin Antep Malatya regions you will see the same thing among the intermixed Arab Turkish and Kurdish populations. Each of them thins that Turkish identity is their own property.  If you ask Albanians and Bosnians and Chechens and the Cherkesians about their identity they will answer you expressing that they are Turks and you will have to ask about their ethnicity. When you do this they will answer you unwillingly and angrily.Eventually Turkey's and its people's identity is definitely Turkish. All Turkish people are supporters of primarily being Turks and most of them are proud Turks. That is why Turkish identy is so dominant in Turkey not because of pressures and the dogmas of the system.

Name of our country was given to us by Europeans even when Anatolia was still a country of Greeks and Armenians.  Today, it reflects the real situation. It is Turks' land. Not other like . If you say something like that it is impossibe for me  to think that you are not ill minded and malicioustowards Turkey and hostile towards Turks. Instead of saying this Turkey, go and say it to Greece, because there are lots of Turks Albanians and Slavs and Aroumanians  living there. I can guess what will be their respond to you. 

THAT WAS OFFENSIVE,  I COMPLAIN ABOUT YOU TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

At that point I totally agree with you. I am a suppoter of an independent Kurdistan or a Kurdistan which is under the same roof of All Iranians. Of course the right of Historical Turkish Cities (Ardahan, Kars, Igdir, Van, Tatvan, Erzurum, Erzincan, Gaziantep, Adiyaman, Malatya) has to be reserved by TURKEY. I mean those mendtioned cities have to remain in Turkey. Under thse circumstances A United Kurdistan can be founded or Kurdistan can be integrated to other Iranian sisters.( But in this case Iran shall give South Azerbaijan to Turkey, because Iranian Azerbaijan is a Turkic countryjust like Nort Azerbaijan which was a former Soviet Republic.) It is their own business. I just oppose to Kurdicization in Turkey.  

"So it makes only one culture: Anatolian Turkish culture. "

Yeah, there is no Kurdish culture, right?

Are you sure about that, PKK movement is an Anatolian Kurdish movement aiming Independence. Maybe they cannot rebel city by city being afraid of the power of Turkey, and of suppressed dramatically. Kurds are Ancient Iranians as they say, that is why to be given to Iran. In the treat between Persia and Ottomans borders were decided in accordance with religious sect not with the cultural identity.

kirkuk is a kurdish city, end of story, and i hope kurdish population rises so much in turkey that kurds become the majority, that way kurds can crush pan-turkist system  of that country. ahha, who would have thought having sex would get what Kurds wanted than shooting up AKs.

kurds, enjoy this take over,  make sure your women enjoy the procedures first then go for the out-burst.