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Constantine XI
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Topic: Questions About Portugal Posted: 30-Aug-2006 at 17:55 |
Originally posted by xi_tujue
s it possible that spanish lnguage is influenced by
arabic? thats why it differnt than protugese. like the spanish word for
the is El and the arabic word for the is Al or is this just a
coinsedence |
In my Spanish (Castellano) classes we have a girl from Oman who says
that Spanish does indeed contain a significant amount of Arabic
influence in the language. For example the word ojala, sort of meaning "i wish", comes from the Arabic expression "may Allah grant".
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faram
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Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 05:08 |
Originally posted by xi_tujue
s it possible that spanish lnguage is influenced by arabic? thats why it differnt than protugese. like the spanish word for the is El and the arabic word for the is Al or is this just a coinsedence |
Yes, Spanish has many words derivated from the Arab, most of them beginning with the prefix "al" .
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Barbarroja
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Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 05:22 |
Many word in Spanish, and also in Catalan start with al, and they come from arab, but El/La, like in Catalan (El/la/l') or in French (Le/la/l') i think come from latin and it's only a coinsedence.
But many names of places come from Arab, in Portugal and in Spain, like Benicassim (do you know the FIB?), Almeria, Algarve, Alacant, Albacete, Benidorm, etc. I think the prefix Beni- means "the son of".
But by the way, Spanish dialects are Andaluz, mexican or cuban, not Catalan or Galician (they are different languages) and all have much influence from arab.
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I'm sorry but my English is not very good. I'm from Vila-real (Valencia, Spain)
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Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 07:13 |
Originally posted by Barbarroja
but El/La, like in Catalan (El/la/l') or in French (Le/la/l') i think come from latin and it's only a coinsedence. |
That's true, el and la come from latin ille and illa, meaning 'this'.
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Kapikulu
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Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 09:49 |
Portunol :)
Is everybody able to understand that in both countries Frederick Roger?
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We gave up your happiness
Your hope would be enough;
we couldn't find neither;
we made up sorrows for ourselves;
we couldn't be consoled;
A Strange Orhan Veli
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Frederick Roger
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Posted: 08-Sep-2006 at 13:30 |
I am not an expert in Portunhol, and I don't believe it is spoken nowdays. Portunhol was basicly the language (I even hesitate in calling it a language) that the portuguese spoke and wrote when in Castille or other Spanish countries. It is basicly a dialect born out of ignorance, and consist in speaking and writing castillian with the use of portuguese articles, nouns and adverbs, as well as the ocasional portuguese word, mingled between castillan. To anyone who doesn't understand castillan, it will sound castillan.
It is common to see this process in language jokes, like a british trying to speak german or french, saying things like "zee " instead of "der".
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Barbarroja
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Posted: 11-Sep-2006 at 06:11 |
Portunhol or Portuol is like Spanglish, a mix, but is not a language. It is usually spoken by Erasmus students or similar.
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I'm sorry but my English is not very good. I'm from Vila-real (Valencia, Spain)
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Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 12:41 |
Portunhol/Portuol is also spoken in Southern America I think. But it's
a an improvised "language" often touristic. It can be quite usefull.
When I was at Estonia, our guide spoke Portunhol, that made he be
understandable for us.
It is basically when a Portuguese tries to speak Castillian or Vice-Versa.
BTW First Post!
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Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 13:51 |
I really don't know what Portuol is. However, as a Spanish speaker I can tell you I can undertand most of what a Portuguese speaker says if speak slowly. It is funny but sometimes some reporters of Spanish speaking countries interview Brazilian soccer players and they answer in Portuguese.
And everyones understand!
Pinguin
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Posted: 25-Oct-2006 at 18:55 |
Of course. But for Castillian Speakers European Portuguese is much more
difficult to understand, especially Portuguese from the southern
regions of Portugal. The main differente between European and Brazilian
Portuguese is the vowel pronunciation. While the Brazillians pronounce
all vowels clear and loud, just like castillian speakers. While
European Portuguese speakers (except maybe from the northernmost
regions) tend to "eat" vowels, especially those from Lisbon and the
southern provinces of Alentejo and Algarve.
Examples:
"O Antnio fez aquilo num instante" - "Antnio did that very fast"
Brazilian Portuguese-"O Ahntohniio feiz ahqiilo num iinstantji"
European Portuguese-"O Antohnio fez aqilo nun'stante"
That's why European portuguese is to difficult to understand. Despite
being a romanic language, it is closed, much more closed than french in
terms of prounciation, it's as closed as slavic languages, that's why
eastern european immigrants in portugal can easily learn portuguese.
And we speak very fast, that makes even more difficult to foreigners to learn European Portuguese.
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Costa
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Posted: 08-Nov-2006 at 15:51 |
All the posts i read here of Frederick Roger, were almost all liars. Since the Portuol is not a language speaked in nowadays and the Portuguese is more near from the Catalan than Spanish (i don't understand a word of catalan and understand almost all in Spanish, me and almost all the Portugueses).... all liars. Are you Portuguese Frederick Roger? Because don't look like that.
Edited by Costa - 08-Nov-2006 at 15:58
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Ikki
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Posted: 08-Nov-2006 at 18:17 |
Originally posted by pinguin
I really don't know what Portuol is. However, as a Spanish speaker I can tell you I can undertand most of what a Portuguese speaker says if speak slowly. It is funny but sometimes some reporters of Spanish speaking countries interview Brazilian soccer players and they answer in Portuguese.
And everyones understand!
Pinguin |
I confirm that , it's funny to see to the report and the player talking in differents languages and understanding everything. And the most funny is that millions peoples in their homes, like i and my family, agree or disagree with the words of the player For all guys, another prove of the familiar languages that are portuguese and castillian is that we can read perfectly the idiom of the other. The problems begin when we talk fast, impossible to understand anything.
Edited by Ikki - 08-Nov-2006 at 18:18
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Frederick Roger
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Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 09:32 |
Originally posted by Costa
All the posts i read here of Frederick Roger, were almost all liars.
Since the Portuol is not a language speaked in nowadays and the Portuguese is more near from the Catalan than Spanish (i don't understand a word of catalan and understand almost all in Spanish, me and almost all the Portugueses).... all liars.
Are you Portuguese Frederick Roger? Because don't look like that. |
Costa, v l se te acalmas!
After careful reading and code-breaking of your terrible broken english, I believe you are calling me a liar because I said:
a) that Portunhol wasn't spoken nowdays;
b) Portuguese was closer to Catalan;
Allow me to clear your mind a bit.
a) like I said in my original post, when asked about Portunhol I replied by stating clearly that I am no expert on the matter and know it only in it's historical context. I absolutely accept that people might speak it nowdays, even thoug I personaly never heard it being spoken.
b) I didn't say that Catalan was closer to Portuguese than Castillan (which you misnamed Spanish). I am perfectly aware that it is a lot closer to Galician and Provenal. I just said that I, personally, could easily understand Galicina and Catalan but not the other languages spoken in Spain (including Castillian).
Now, if you don't mind, I would apretiate if you didn't call me a liar based on misinterpretations of my writings. This time I'll let it pass, so please refrain next time.
Abrao
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Costa
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Posted: 09-Nov-2006 at 15:35 |
So Frederick take a look over here -> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portu%C3%B1ol
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Barbarroja
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Posted: 10-Nov-2006 at 07:42 |
Is true that Camoes in Os lusiadas, talk about Portugal like a Spanish country?? I think Portugal is also Spain (if we considere Spain=Hispania), but Portugal take another way in history. Perfectly now we could speak about a Spain formed by Portugal and Castile and the independent country Aragon if the Castilian Civil War in XV century had had a different end.
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I'm sorry but my English is not very good. I'm from Vila-real (Valencia, Spain)
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Posted: 10-Nov-2006 at 08:07 |
Hispania = Portugal + Spain = Iberia
Simple
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Maharbbal
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Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 00:12 |
In the Lusiadas Cames only refers to Hispania when he talks about the high antiquity. Otherwise he is very keen to distinguish the two country.
As armas e os bares asinilados que de occidental praia Lusitana tra mares nuca ante navegados
And I can't remember what comes next
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I am a free donkey!
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Barbarroja
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Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 06:36 |
But Lusitania wasn't Portugal, was part of Portugal and part of Castile.
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I'm sorry but my English is not very good. I'm from Vila-real (Valencia, Spain)
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Frederick Roger
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Posted: 13-Nov-2006 at 06:37 |
Originally posted by Maharbbal
In the Lusiadas Cames only refers to Hispania when he talks about the high antiquity. Otherwise he is very keen to distinguish the two country.
As armas e os bares asinilados que de occidental praia Lusitana tra mares nuca ante navegados
And I can't remember what comes next
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As armas e os bares assinalados,
Que da Ocidental praia Lusitana,
Por mares nunca dantes navegados,
Passaram ainda alm da Taprobana.
And over 8400 lines more. It's basicly a transmorphography of Virgil's "Aeneid".
Anyway, the concept of Hispania or Iberia is still valid and goes without saying, however only when refering to geographical features. As far as culture and ethnicity, far to much has come in between that makes it impossible to consider the Iberians as one homogenous people.
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Ikki
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Posted: 14-Nov-2006 at 11:52 |
Between 1000-1600 not only geographical but ethnical, althought light, the similar features in culture, society and history. As say one time Barbarroja, Portugal don't differ speciall from Castille and Aragon until the final break in 1640, before that date, althought each kingdom had took differents ways, the differences were less powerful than the common things.
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