Hitler's attempts to make alliance with Poland

Actually Hitler understood Polish pact with Britain as breaking non agression pact.

But it doesnt matter. Important thing is, that if Polish autorithies would have agreed for alliance with Germany, even if it would make Poland a puppet state of Hitler, give up Gdansk/Danzig in exchange for big part of Ukraine and Odessa (such proposal was made), millions people might have survive the war. Million people including Jews. Because situation couldnt have been any worse. It could have been only better.

Edited by Mosquito - 13-Apr-2016 at 09:43

Originally posted by Mosquito Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising You're fooling yourself, Mosquito. It is a fact the Nazis considered you Slavs as inferior and on the land they wanted. Do you expect that they would suddenly have an epiphany and consider you to be better than the soil under their jack boots? It was their dream to cleanse all of the land they had planned on taking and murder or evict its people. My guess the former would have been the case, but hey you might have been lucky and pushed into Siberia or the Gobi desert. I did present lots of evidence that before april 1939 Hitler wanted alliance with Poland. You only keep repeating yourself. Any evidence? [QUOTE] Mosquito, it's difficult the get past the facts we already know such as the Generalplan ost. We know the Nazis had set it into motion and that it had all along included the land Poland occupies, but without the people as the Nazis considered Slavs as being inferior. We already know how the Nazis used alliances as temporary measures in order to get their own way, which I will get back to this point when answering your next question. My next piece of evidence is as follows: [QUOTE] In order to avoid damaging relations with the Soviet Union, the Pact was supposedly directed only against the Comintern, but in fact contained a secret agreement that in the event of either signatory power becoming involved with a war with the Soviet Union, the other signatory power would maintain a benevolent neutrality.

 http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Comintern_Pact#Origins Again I will further this answering your next question.

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising You're fooling yourself, Mosquito. It is a fact the Nazis considered you Slavs as inferior and on the land they wanted. Do you expect that they would suddenly have an epiphany and consider you to be better than the soil under their jack boots? It was their dream to cleanse all of the land they had planned on taking and murder or evict its people. My guess the former would have been the case, but hey you might have been lucky and pushed into Siberia or the Gobi desert.

I did present lots of evidence that before april 1939 Hitler wanted alliance with Poland. You only keep repeating yourself. Any evidence?

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising As for Hitler being loyal to those who were loyal to him, yes his secretary, Traudl Junge, describes Hitler's loyalty right to the end, the end that is when he forced them to kill themselves even when they didn't want to. Some loyalty that was. That shows him to be a backstabber right to the very end, Mosquito, and that is the creature you would have handed the lives of your people, and my guess with the same outcome.

Any examples of Hitler betraying his allies first? Did he attack Slovaks or Croats? Did he murder any Italians before Italy changed sides?

Edited by Mosquito - 13-Apr-2016 at 02:51

Soviet Union and Poland are completelly different things. As I said, Hitler didnt have anything against Poland as long as it would become his ally. He completely didnt feel classic "prussian" hate toward Poland. It is clear that for long time Poland was in his plans his partner, thats why invited it to sign anti-comintern pact together with Japan and Italy.
The proposals and invitations were many and all were refused.
Soviet Union was from the begining his enemy. In fact he wanted to ally with Poland against Soviet Union inspite the fact that his advisros of Prussian origin advised him otherwise. There are many evidences of it.
At the time of the signing of the Anti-Comintern Pact, invitations were sent out for Britain, China, Italy and Poland to adhere; of the invited states only the Italians were to sign the pact, in November 1937.

For example:

"In May 1933, Hitler met with Herbert von Dirksen, the German Ambassador in Moscow. Dirksen advised the Führer that he was allowing relations with the Soviet Union to deteriorate to a unacceptable extent, and advised to take immediate steps to repair relations with the Soviets.Much to Dirksen's intense disappointment, Hitler informed that he wished for an anti-Soviet understanding with Poland...."


"In August 1935, Hitler told Goebbels his foreign policy vision as: "With England eternal alliance. Good relationship with Poland . . . Expansion to the East. The Baltic belongs to us . . . Conflicts Italy-Abyssinia-England, then Japan-Russia imminent.""

As for the central Europe, Germany under Hitler wanted to do the same thing as nowadays Germany under Merkel, to create "Mitteleuropa", the political and economic bloc consisting of all Central and Eastern European states headed by Germany.

The historical record shows that Hitler, unlike Stalin, was very loyal to those who were loyal to him.

If however a friend or ally turned against him, he was utterly ruthless in taking revenge.

However, Poland wanted to have good relations with Germany but didnt want to go for war together with Germany against Soviet Union. The alliance with UK and France was the last attempt of Polish diplomacy to not engage into war on any side. Hitler understood it as the betrayal after so many years of negotiations.

You are also forgetting that Hitler was an Austrian. It was one of the reasons why till Polish-British pact he didnt feel any hate towards Poland, unlike towards Czechoslovakia and the Czechs.


Edited by Mosquito - 12-Apr-2016 at 20:41

I know well what general plan ost was.

But it wouldnt include Poland if it wanst already the enemy of Germany. And didnt include those slavic nations which were already allied with Germany eg Slovakia and Bulgaria.

You should note that Hitler didnt make any harm to his allies until they started betraying him.

Thats why Poland should have allied with Germany and "backstab" it when the right time would come.

Edited by Mosquito - 12-Apr-2016 at 19:51

Originally posted by TheAlaniDragonRising Also, the Nazis had already decided on their Lebensraum or living space for the Aryan people being Poland, Ukraine, Russia...etc...They are also known to believe the Slavs to be inferior, so I guess easily tricked...etc...The Nazis are famous for staging propaganda stunts. They were pretty good at it

Not in this case. Hitler's policy towards Poland didnt change until Poland signed pact with Britain in april 1939.
Hitler himself said many times that if only Pilsudski didnt die in 1935, there wouldnt be any war against Poland but the anti-Soviet alliance.

Do you know that even in the occupied Poland Goering ordered (most likely on Hitler's request) to keep German honour guards at Pilsudski's tomb at Royal Castle in Kraków?

Also German propaganda did change that time from pro-Polish to very anti-Polish:

Ghost of Pilsudski put jester hat on the head of Józef Beck, Polish minister of foreign affairs after he signed pact with Britain.







Edited by Mosquito - 12-Apr-2016 at 13:23

Another one from the same event:

Germany and Poland, dog and cat, live together in harmony what makes France (cock) very angry.

Originally posted by Mosquito Posters comes from the book of P. Zychowicz. He did find them and published in his book. I just type in the google the title of his book and find them. They dont come from one site. Here is another. Third Reich (boy in German traditional cloths) adoring Poland (girl in Polish traditional cloths).

Originally posted by Mosquito Hitler asked Poland to join the Anti-Comintern Pact, an anti-Soviet alliance comprising Germany, Japan and Italy. I would say that he had no intention of attacking Poland as well as he had no intention to attack Japan or Italy. Thats the main sifference between Poland and for example Czechoslovakia. Hitler never asked Czechoslovakia to join the Anti-Comintern Pact. That shows the clear difference in his attitudes toward the two countries; Poland was a potential ally while Czechoslovakia was an enemy to be eliminated. Hitler's change of attitude toward Poland in 1939 was similar to his change of attitude toward Italy in 1943. In both cases he was feeling that he was betrayed by a nation he considered as his ally. Poland was in very good and warm relations with both Japan and Italy. Japan was even pressing on German goverment to include Poland into Anti-Comintern Pact. After German invasion on Poland, Japan still cooperated with Poland and even gave diplomatic passports to Polish agents of secret services in Germany. Italians were even emotionaly more on Polish than German side. With both Italy and Japan during 30ties Poland had much better relations than with France or England. And with Hungary even warmer.