Turkey Shoots Down Russian Jet Fighter

Is it a compliment?! a sort of it as I can see.Thanks.

Nobody is perfect,isn't it?

Originally posted by medenaywe Yes aeoli all the Balkan is infected with ultranationalism.

Yes aeoli all the Balkan is infected with ultranationalism. More unfunctional is establishment bigger it is.I have been in Turkey couple of times and you behave as you are center of the universe.My colequtor this summer tried to tell me that everyone has to speak language of native country.Maybe if I have had the interpreting device of Star Trek.I speak English by the way.

Edited by medenaywe - 03-Dec-2015 at 07:22

I dont see a problem in nationalism. I always consider it as good and healthy thing for every nation. And I dont think that there are greater nationalists anywhere in the world than in USA which is ultranationalistic.
The problem in Turkey which I can see myself is that Turkish nationalism is somehow merging with religion. The same problem I can also observe in my own country.
Turkey and Poland had in the same time two national heroes - Attaturk and Pilsudski. Neither of them wanted their country to become "too religious" and both supported nationalist but secular state. Actually when I think about them I can see more similar things than differences.



Edited by Mosquito - 02-Dec-2015 at 19:50

Iv been to Turkey many times. First time in 1989 and many times after it. I got friends in Turkey. One of them escaped for two years to Poland.. in 90ties. He didnt want to be conscripted to the army and lived in Poland untill his affairs in Turkey were settled. That time he often lived in my home. When one of the members of this forum - Diplomat - has asked, I took to some extent care for Turkish student in my city who came to university here on ERASMUS stipendium program.

Personaly I got great sympathy for Turkish people and the last thing I could say about the Turks is that they are evil. The Turks are friendly and warm people.

However I must admitt that I see the changes which happend there and that Turkey dont live with the ideals of great Kemal Mustafa Attaturk anymore.

Originally posted by Aeoli 1-Turkey didn't attacked Russian Plane just because it was attacking Syrian Rebels. It was border violation. 2-The situation is not ally situation in WW. Turkey is not active part of war against Assad. 3-If Turkey is responsible for action of their Syrian allies ?, don't you think that USA is responsible for that war crime becuase they are ally with Turkey. 4-Unfortunetly, as always be, winners never punish for their war crimes. This destroys all meaning of the point.

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1. That was never the question.

2. True enough in part...as they have bought ISIS oil....which has helped fund them...and yet released Incirlik again for anti-ISIS ops.
Iow. the Turkish government is riding the fence.....again.


3. Absolutely and therein lies the failure of the current administration to lead and to advise.

4. True enough and the Turks, like many others, have committed or aided atrocities...one in particular comes to mind.

The great Ataturk, no doubt, is disgusted with your entire performance to date.


Edited by TheAlaniDragonRising - 01-Dec-2015 at 19:16

Yeah, I heard that Putin is going to make more of it, virtually accusing the Islamist Turkish Gov't as

Murder is Murder. Don't straw it. Both while relative given context and era; remain murder.


In this most recent case....the Turks and their inability to control their Rebel allies and their allies act remain responsible for actions commited during military operations...which make it a War Crime.

Edited by Centrix Vigilis - 30-Nov-2015 at 12:54

Originally posted by Mosquito Well, Polish soldiers who killed civilians in Afganistan had accusations based on Polish law, not international. http://jurist.org/forum/2015/04/milena-serio-war-crimes.php

Not uncommon...actually quite common; given the parameters of most Status of Forces Agreements (SOF) between a participating nation and a host.

In this case; the soldiers in question: ''Warsaw military court acquitted four Polish soldiers of war crimes over the killing of six civilians in Afghanistan in 2007.''

Cc: Mosquito's link.

Which further corroborates the general agreement of jurisdiction as agreed upon. Which is generally found in SOF's. This however does not detract that the Poles remain signatures of the afore noted, many times, Proto's and provisions of the GC. Which is after investigation, why their trial was conducted in the first place.

This often proves contentious, ie. criminal jurisdiction; among the parties.

As has Turkey's refusal to sign the GC.


This was, and remains, further exacerbated by a war crime committed by their rebel allies.