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Yiannis
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Topic: Meaning of country names. Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 04:36 |
Originally posted by Alparslan
Today's Macedonians are decents of ancient Macedonians as much as today's Greeks of Greece are decents of ancient Greece. |
Thanks for the educated comment, when you know where you come from, please let us know as well. The anticipation is just killing me.
Originally posted by Alparslan
. You are doing the same thing for the Turks who live in Greece. You are still denying their identities and calling them "Muslim Greeks"......... |
That's because they're mixed Turks, Pomacks and Gypsies, they're generally reffered to as Muslim Greeks (Lausanne treaty). Given your record with the Greeks of Constantinople, I wouldn't have a big mouth.
Originally posted by Alparslan
.You are calling yourselves as Hellenes, Hellas.......... Well what is the story of this name. Isn't it an artificial name? |
Answer to that has been posted before, search the forum, you'll find it.
Originally posted by Alparslan
.It is because of Greece today we have a country whose name is Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia. |
Hope you have the same mentality when you'll have to recognize Kurdistan
Originally posted by Alparslan
.from the town Kastoria which is under Greek occupation now in southern Macedonia. |
We prefer to call it "libaration from the Turkish yoke" but then again all these things are a matter of perspective, right? Great, just what was needed to these topics, Turkish ultranationalists joining the relay...
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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dark_one
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Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 13:43 |
In Russia Japan is pronounced Yaponia and China Kitay. IS the Russian r englsihw way more correct?
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Christscrusader
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Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 16:35 |
Originally posted by Alparslan
In addition to this it is nonsense for Greeks to tell the others their identity. You are doing the same thing for the Turks who live in Greece. You are still denying their identities and calling them "Muslim Greeks".........
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More anti Hellenic stuff going on. Poor turk. You are clueless. These Macedonians are claiming to our history, and history is precious. And here, you give Kurds some rights, will give "turks in greece" some rights. There just Thracians, not Turks. Heres an example.Someones family moved from Mexico 100 years ago. Today, he does not still say hes Mexican, hes an American(or prehaps a Mexican AMerican). Same with Hellas. We do not want divisions, we want unity, and not going by broken down names. Someone who lives in Greece, speaks Greek, and is into greek culture IS a greek.
Edited by Christscrusader
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Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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Hellinas
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Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 19:59 |
dark_one
I heard this summer the Japanese shouting for their country, during the Olympics they alwas said Y-pon don't know if that helps.
Christscrusader
Do you live in Hellas or are you a Hellino-American?
No offence, just a simple question.
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Gubook Janggoon
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Posted: 01-Feb-2005 at 20:16 |
Japan is either pronounced Nippon or Nihon, although I hear Nihon is the more official one.
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Alparslan
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 00:44 |
Originally posted by Christscrusader
These Macedonians are claiming to our history, and history is precious. And here, you give Kurds some rights, will give "turks in greece" some rights. There just Thracians, not Turks. |
It is not your history. You have stolen Macedonian history and still deny their identity. The name of the country is Macedonia not FRYM Macedonia. A nation can not be treated as a prioner of history and cannot be victims of Greek inferiority complex.
What Thracians are you talking about? There is not such an identity. They are missed in history thousands years ego. You live in an imaginary word. It seems like your minds have been raped.
I am talking about today my dear. I am talking about just a few day ego. Greek state has closed down a Turkish organization since there was the word "Turk" inside its title in Greece, in West Tharce. It is in Europe, in European Union. They are Turk but they are trying to be assimilated. You have tried to assimilate Karamanlides too. But it seems like many of them still know their identity and their ethnic origin but can not tell freely because of Greek opression.
Edited by Alparslan
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azimuth
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 01:02 |
Originally posted by dark_one
In Russia Japan is pronounced Yaponia and China Kitay. IS the Russian r englsihw way more correct? |
Japan is Nipon/Nihon in japanese and China in chinese i think it is Zohongo
well in Arabic Janpan is Yaban and China is Seyn.
Edited by azimuth
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Kuu-ukko
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 06:43 |
Originally posted by Alparslan
I. It is not your history. You have stolen Macedonian history and still deny their identity. The name of the country is Macedonia not FRYM Macedonia.
II. It seems like your minds have been raped.
III. They are Turk but they are trying to be assimilated. You have tried to assimilate Karamanlides too. But it seems like many of them still know their identity and their ethnic origin but can not tell freely because of Greek opression. |
I. Wtf?! Lets get the facts straight: Ancient Macedonia was a state north of the Dorian Greeks, situated in modern FYROM and north Greece. Macedonias peak was during the reign of king Alexander III the Great, whos father king Filippos II had conquered Greece during his period. After Alexander died his kingdom was split in 4 parts, Greece and Macedonia given to Kassander. Later Macedonia was ruled by the Persians, Romans and Byzantines respectively. During Herakleios III's period the Slavs north of the river Danube were invited to the Balkans, and have lived there eversince. The name of FYROM is taken from the ancient civilisation that lived in that region long ago. So Alparslan, the Greeks haven't stolen anything, and indeed, it is NOT Macedonia, but Former Yugoslav Republic Of Macedonia.
II. There is no need for personal and abusive behaviour.
III. I think this is hypocrite coming from a Turk, since it is internationally admitted that ethnic and religious minorities in Turkey are annihilated and persecuted (Armenians, Assyrians, Kurds.....).
On the actual topic, some country names in my other language, Finnish:
Russia: Venj, named after an ancient name of some tribe, the vendi. Also: Ryssinmaa, "land of the Rus"(the rootword is ryss, came via Sweden, -in is the plural genetive suffix, maa means land), but this name is prohibited nowadays, mainly because the name "ryss" has got a negative feeling after WWII.
Sweden: Ruotsi, named after the area of Rosl*gen(Swedish in Finnish is ruotsalainen), where the first Swedish settlers came from.
Norway: Norja, the word means "slender", "fragile", possibly beacuse the landscape there, or the shape of the country?
Estonia: Viro, named after Vrumaa, with which Finland has had the most active trade connections in Estonia.
Most country names in Finnish are just finnisized (don't know the correct term): England~Englanti, Denmark~Tanska(from Swedish danska), France~Ranska(from Swedish franska), China~Kiina, Japan~Japani, Brasil~Brasilia etc...
Edited by Kuu-ukko
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Kuu-ukko
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 07:16 |
Originally posted by JasSum
So the name comes from Ma Ki Donia MA - MAther I. Ki - Energy (people from far east still use this word) Donia - Land
II. Kichma - spine in english. Ki chmae, where energy is quite. III.Dorci (how we call doric people) - dorcho is the most common name for a horse, ane just for a horse. no other creature has a name like that :} |
I. ?? What the is THAt doing there?? Are you saying, that the Chinese were the first to discover Macedonia? Or that modern Macedonian is a language related to Chinese?
II. There isn't a word like that in English...
III. Meaning of this? This isn't even relevant to the alleged name of "donia"...
And yes, I have been to Greece. They didn't complain. Why should they? Their gov. is good, economy fine etc.
Edited by Kuu-ukko
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Yiannis
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 07:18 |
Originally posted by JasSum
LEt me tell you why greece stoped its army after ww1 or ww2 i am not sure from invading turkish coast. . |
After ww1 we had already invaded the Turkish coast, after ww2 we were too bussy fighting a civil war to invade anydoby.
You wouldn't know facts, if they came and smacked you in the face!
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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Yiannis
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 07:24 |
Originally posted by JasSum
Thats why greece dont want turks in eu. Because than its archives will be free to all, and greece may easily loose some parts of their land. |
Hm, ok this one makes sense: So if Turkey is in the EU, then it's archives will be free to all, if not they will not be. Why would Turkey's entrance make any difference, on the situation of it's archives? Are you aware of an EU regulation on country archives that the rest of us are not?
I don't know why I bother replying...
Edited by Yiannis
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The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics
Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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azimuth
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 10:12 |
Originally posted by JasSum
azimuth .. thats funny. the name you call japan is verry interesting we call , tugjina jabana ... in translation - foregn land - f...ed land, and its so called any country where imigrants go ... :} just the meaning of the word :}}
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you mentioned before that the word "Donia" means land
in Arabic the word Donia means the "World"
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 12:30 |
Yaqut Hamavi, Masudi (in Muruj adh-dhahab), Ibn Khurradadhbih and many other muslim historians say that "Macdonia (Maqdon) was old Egyptian name of Egypt (Arabic Masr, Middle Persian Machra)". Maqdisi in Ahson at-taqasim fi marifat al-aqalim (The Best of Classification for the Knowledge of Regions) has even mentioned Fustat as the capital of Macedonia.
I think the Egyptian word was Makmetu, Ma in egyptian language means "Land" and we know that ancient Egyptians referred to themselves as Kmetu (Black people), so Makmetu means "Land of Black People".
About Alexander, you can't find a Persian source which says that Alexander was from Greece or Macedonia but "THE BOOK OF ARDA VIRAF" which is one of the earliest Persian sources clearly says (as you can read here: http://www.avesta.org/pahlavi/viraf.html) Alexander was from Egypt.
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Degredado
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 13:42 |
Cyrus, some people say that Lisbon was founded by Ulysses, and Britain and France by Trojan survivors. That doesn't mean they're right.
I'm still trying to figure out if you're serious about Alexander coming from Egypt. Could you please give more info?
I always thought that Egypt was a Persian satrapy, and one of the few that was more tightly controlled (according to Herodotus).
As for Kmetu...not to sound racist or anything, but doesn't it mean Black land? In contrast with the white land of the desert? (it does sound odd that the Egyptians should call themselves the Black people, as in contrast to the Nubians who lived in the south. It would be like the English calling themselves the white people, in comparison to the Danes)
Edited by Degredado
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Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas
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JasSum
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 18:38 |
Ok ill post some of the teries
Those of you who are fans of Marty Mistery know that egypt had its enemy on north, before the mediteranian sea ever got the look like today (the area was a green land, not a sea) The enemy was Ma, later Makedonija. The theory is very long and if there is someone interested in reading a very long post please ask for it, coz it realy is long
The rest of the teory say that when the doors of the ocean were broken the sea entered the mainland and flooded Ma. So they fleed to highland. Thats todays turkie and balkans. Than doric and ionian tribes arived and were in the middle of 2 civilizations that were in fight from the begining of time. So when Aleksandar got to power we all know he went to persia, but than went to egypt, using persia just to go to egypt by land and not by sea. Defeating egypt and claiming its throne was the ultimate victory after one egypt remained under macedonian ruler for centuries.
So Ma than became Macedonia
Donia is world, and we all leave in a land that is a world by itself ... (so those names are with close meaning)
ku-ku:
for you my friend
1. kichma (кичма - use cyrilic windows-1251 coding to see) is on macedonia what spine is on english.
2. i say that there were conections in the past that were later lost
do you think america was discovered? I think not. it existed all the time. You have the logic that if oxygen was discovered in the 18th century, what people breathed before?
So if some brave cherokee sailed to west, who would discover who?
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Christscrusader
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 20:59 |
Originally posted by JasSum
Defeating egypt and claiming its throne was the ultimate victory after one egypt remained under macedonian ruler for centuries.
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Yes, and it was said that after he died, his empire was split up into Greek Empires, never has it said Macedonian Empires. Ptolomy and his relatives all spoke and acted like greeks. All the cities in the middle east founded by Alexander were trying to be JUST like the cities in Ancient Greece. They didn't speak Bulgarian as you do, nor did they decent from slavs. These people were who ruled were Hellens. SUch when the historians say when the Greeks were kicked out of India. No where does it say the Macedonians were kicked out of India. Its because the word is interchangible, because they are the same.
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Heaven helps those, who help themselves.
-Jc
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vagabond
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Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 23:56 |
re: ancient Egypt
KMT - or Kemet or Khmet or however you choose to transliterate the
heiroglyph - is a reference not to the people but to the land. It is
the land that is black - not the people, and during the Old Kingdom
they called themselves the people of the Black Land.
The Black land was the fertile land that lay along the banks of the
Nile and was enriched by the annual flood - as opposed to the red land
which was the unfertile land in the desert - there was no ancient
Egyptian distinction of black land / white land- that is a modern
argument that has been created out of mistranslations of the
heiroglyphs.
From http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/kmt.htm
Basically, we can examine three groups of names which have
applied to Egypt. In the early period of Egypt, during
the Old Kingdom, Egypt was referred to as Kemet (Kermit), or
simply Kmt ,
which means the Black land. They called themselves "remetch
en Kermet", which means the "People of the Black
Land". The term refers to the rich soil found in
the Nile Valley and Delta. But it was also sometimes
referred to as Deshret, or dshrt ,
which refers to the "Red Land", or deserts of which
Egypt is mostly comprised. |
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In the time of your life, live - so that in that wonderous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world, but shall smile to the infinite delight and mystery of it. (Saroyan)
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Cyrus Shahmiri
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Posted: 03-Feb-2005 at 08:17 |
Or you want me to get into war mode, call several friends and overflood the forum with posts that will make several heart attacks on my south neighbours not to mention their names .. |
Please don't force us to ban you, our friendly forum is not a good place for your battleground!
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Guests
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Posted: 05-Feb-2005 at 14:32 |
Scotland quite obviously means land of the scots but that it uses the english word land makes it obvious that it is not the scottish name for scotland. In fact the "scots" never called themselves scots, they were the dal riata , the scotii was a generic name given by the romans to the picts gaelic allies. In gaelic "scotland" is called Alba. Im not perfectly sure what it means but it seems quite similar to the old Irish word Allaban which means a wonderer so alba could mean home of the wanderers as the migrating dal riata found home there
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Polish-UkrainianCanadian
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Posted: 05-Feb-2005 at 17:13 |
Ukraine-Ukrayina Russian for 'at the edge' of Russia
Poland-Polska from the Polanie/Poliane tribe that discovered Poland
Canada-Kanada in Ojibwa meaning 'the village'
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