Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
Cyrus Shahmiri
Administrator
King of Kings
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
|
Topic: AE is not run well by both members and mo Posted: 19-May-2006 at 05:25 |
I have to complain to all you members of AE, it is really a disaster for this forum that we see everyday its veteran members such as Maju and Land of Aryans are leaving it! I still feel bad when I remember our various historical discussions with Ihsan, however he has left AE for a long time! Lets respect those who contribute much to this community and help to keep them here!
|
|
|
Spartakus
Tsar
terörist
Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 07:51 |
Oh come on!Maju was an egoistic prick!AE members begged him for 5 web-pages(!) and he did not even bother to answer to them.He did not respect them and the rest of us.So i say,to Hell!
|
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
|
|
flyingzone
Caliph
Joined: 11-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2630
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 08:12 |
Being a longtime member does not immune him or her from saying bad or offensive things and acting irresponsibly. I was a big fan and supporter of Maju until he made this unacceptable remark ("Death to Israel") and his subsequent infantile action. Trust me I am no fan of Israel's policies, but calling for the death of a nation is clearly a violation of AE's Code of Conduct. Even though I do believe that longtime members deserve respect from us (and in Maju's case all he received was a warning), administrators and moderators cannot overlook their blatant disregard of AE's Code of Conduct if it happens. As a matter of fact, since they are veteran members, they should know better themselves.
I think we shouldn't just fixate on old members and those "good old days". People come and go. Good and bad people leave, but at the same time good and bad people are joining us all the time too.
|
|
azimuth
Caliph
SlaYer'S SlaYer
Joined: 12-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2979
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 08:23 |
Cyrus linking Maju's and Ihsan's and Land of Aryan's leaving as they were forced to leave,
Ihsan was a Moderator and Left because he started a new Forum and wanted to give most of his time to that forum and AFAIK it didnt work that well and now he is taking time off PC. i hope he comes back to AE, i always ask about him.
Maju left because he is acting like a Baby and his action in that thread required a warning and MOST of the Moderators agreed on Komnenos's decision in issuing that Warning, i think he felt that he is spending lots of time here and wanted and Excuse to leave, he made up a pathatic excuse and left although Mods and Members sent him PM and made posts in his leaving thread asking him to re-consider.
Land of Aryan Tried to make disturbance in the Forum by making Fault accusations to cover his ignorance and Nationalists agenda in the forum, and luckly he Failed, his failure made him decide to leave, and then his leaving thread which is trolling and trying make flam wars and be a leader of a riot against mods caused his BAN .
he is one of the good Iranian contributers to the Forums, too bad that he decided to leave because others think differently than him.
-------------------
so Cyrus as you can see all three cases are Different and no one of the three above were asked to leave the forum, all left the forum from their own decision. (or got themselvs warned and banned in case of maju and land of aryan)
---------------
pleople leaving and comming is natural thing.
we have many Good new Members who are great contributers and Intellectulas.
Rules are the rules, if there is some rule need to be changed them Members are MORE than WELLCOME to give their suggestions and Ideas.
after all this forum is for everybody.
|
|
|
Komnenos
Tsar
Retired AE Administrator
Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 12:33 |
Although no names have been mentioned, I would like to point out that all of AE's moderators involved in any of the cases above mentioned , and in all others not mentioned here, have acted with the fullest support of the current Forum Administation and will do so in the future.
At the moment there is no need to change AE' staff policy in trying to maintain a history forum, even if that might lead in isolated cases to longstanding members leaving the forum, as they no longer agree with AE's policies.
This is highly regrettable, but a forum free of flame wars and unwanted nationalist propaganda might attract members we actually would like to be here.
Edited by Komnenos - 19-May-2006 at 12:46
|
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
|
|
rider
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4664
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 12:50 |
Atleast I will be here until the worlds change...
But I have no idea who thinks it is a good thing...
It seems to me that eventually, all will return. Hopefully.
|
|
Maziar
Chieftain
Arteshbod
Joined: 06-Nov-2005
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1155
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 15:23 |
Originally posted by azimuth
-------------------
so Cyrus as you can see all three cases are Different and no one of the three above were asked to leave the forum, all left the forum from their own decision. (or got themselvs warned and banned in case of maju and land of aryan)
---------------
|
You are such a pharisee
|
|
ulrich von hutten
Tsar
Court Jester
Joined: 01-Nov-2005
Location: Germany
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3638
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 16:56 |
Originally posted by Komnenos
Although no names have been mentioned, I would like to point out that all of AE's moderators involved in any of the cases above mentioned , and in all others not mentioned here, have acted with the fullest support of the current Forum Administation and will do so in the future. At the moment there is no need to change AE' staff policy in trying to maintain a history forum, even if that might lead in isolated cases to longstanding members leaving the forum, as they no longer agree with AE's policies. This is highly regrettable, but a forum free of flame wars and unwanted nationalist propaganda might attract members we actually would like to be here. |
allthough this is "only" the internet and the world will turn around another few years without our beloved ae-forum and many other important questions are waiting to be answered ,i support with my full encouragement the mods of ae. go your own way and don't listen to this voices of ignorance and dullness.
|
|
|
Jagatai Khan
Chieftain
Jeune Turc
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Turkey
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1270
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 17:25 |
As Ihsan, TJK and Cornellia can be called.
These are all symbolic names in AE's history and I think old members and admins can call them back.
|
|
red clay
Administrator
Tomato Master Emeritus
Joined: 14-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 10226
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 17:45 |
Originally posted by flyingzone
Being a longtime member does not immune him or her from saying bad or offensive things and acting irresponsibly. I was a big fan and supporter of Maju until he made this unacceptable remark ("Death to Israel") and his subsequent infantile action. Trust me I am no fan of Israel's policies, but calling for the death of a nation is clearly a violation of AE's Code of Conduct. Even though I do believe that longtime members deserve respect from us (and in Maju's case all he received was a warning), administrators and moderators cannot overlook their blatant disregard of AE's Code of Conduct if it happens. As a matter of fact, since they are veteran members, they should know better themselves.
I think we shouldn't just fixate on old members and those "good old days". People come and go. Good and bad people leave, but at the same time good and bad people are joining us all the time too. |
I agree with Flyingzone, like it's components[the members] the Forum is a living changing entity, in flux if you will, constantly. We have lost some members who were frequent contributors, the personality of AE has changed, as it will continue to. However, the Moderators have done the job they are expected to do and have done it well and under fire, unfairly I might add. AE will go on.
|
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
Unknown.
|
|
Thegeneral
Chieftain
Joined: 05-Mar-2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1117
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:14 |
Gosh, Maju was a great asset to this place, and when he says one thing (which I DO NOT agree with the slightest) he gets run out of here by a mob. This place is no longer a place for itellectual talks. It has gone farther downhill than I ever thought possible. And this new background has prompted me to leave as well. This is no longer the AE I remember.
|
|
|
hugoestr
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 13-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3987
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:20 |
Hi, thegen,
I may remind you that there was a 5 page, I repeat, five page begathon thread asking him to stay.
The mob asked him to stay; he decided to go. We must respect that decision. :)
|
|
Komnenos
Tsar
Retired AE Administrator
Joined: 20-Dec-2004
Location: Neutral Zone
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4361
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:22 |
Originally posted by Thegeneral
Gosh, Maju was a great asset to this place, and when he says one thing (which I DO NOT agree with the slightest) he gets run out of here by a mob. This place is no longer a place for itellectual talks. It has gone farther downhill than I ever thought possible. And this new background has prompted me to leave as well. This is no longer the AE I remember. |
If there is any demand, we could open a "AE Veterans" sub-forum, where the old members could meet over a cup of milky tea and chocolate digestives and talk about the good old times and moan about the modern ones.
|
[IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg">
|
|
The Charioteer
Colonel
Joined: 16-Feb-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 735
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:36 |
IMO, Maju's leave is definately a regretful event here at AE.
although he was appearing passionate about the debate, and his remark "Death to Israel" was definately inappropriate, inappropriate not because of what he was trying to argue about the implication of "anti-israel" terms, but because its not necessarily the way to express it for a rather well-minded long time member who contributed much here.
Yet, if "Death to Israel" means Death to Zionist policy of Israel state, then its not necessarily interpreted as the same to "Death to the state of Israel" or "Death to Israeli people and their state".
Then its like to say "Death to Japan!" or "Death to Germany!", only they are specifically referring to the state of Germany embracing Nazism, or state of Japan run by militaristic government.
If so, warning to Maju is equally inappropriate behaviour because calling fellow forumer "egoistic prick!" is obviously inappropriate behaviour yet receives no punishment.
|
|
flyingzone
Caliph
Joined: 11-Dec-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2630
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 20:22 |
Originally posted by The Charioteer
Yet, if "Death to Israel" means Death to Zionist policy of Israel state, then its not necessarily interpreted as the same to "Death to the state of Israel" or "Death to Israeli people and their state".
Then its like to say "Death to Japan!" or "Death to Germany!", only they are specifically referring to the state of Germany embracing Nazism, or state of Japan run by militaristic government.
|
We as moderators cannot afford to play psychological detective all the time and second guess someone's motive when that person makes a statement that so blatantly breaks AE's Code of Conduct. There are some cases in which the violation is more questionable and requires more discussion. But this particular case, which had been discussed among moderators nevertheless, was more straightforward at least IMHO. And let's not forget the fact that all he received was a warning. Were we too heavy-handed? I don't think so.
Originally posted by The Charioteer
If so, warning to Maju is equally inappropriate behaviour because calling fellow forumer "egoistic prick!" is obviously inappropriate behaviour yet receives no punishment. |
I think you are comparing apples to oranges here. If someone says "death to flyingzone,", that person should be warned even if what that person really means is death to flyingzone being a communist or an atheist. However, I've been called many things, including being ignorant, hypocritical, stupid, arrogant, boring, etc. I am of course offended, but there's nothing I can do about that. Of course if the same person repeatedly picks on me and uses the same insult, that's another story. That's trolling.
Edited by flyingzone - 19-May-2006 at 20:23
|
|
Paul
General
AE Immoderator
Joined: 21-Aug-2004
Location: Hyperborea
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 952
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 21:21 |
Originally posted by flyingzone
We as moderators cannot afford to play psychological detective all the time and second guess someone's motive when that person makes a statement that so blatantly breaks AE's Code of Conduct. There are some cases in which the violation is more questionable and requires more discussion. But this particular case, which had been discussed among moderators nevertheless, was more straightforward at least IMHO. And let's not forget the fact that all he received was a warning. Were we too heavy-handed? I don't think so. |
I think this is the first post, since all these lengthy discussions across many posts and forums began, to hit the crux of the argument, and also explains how the mods got it so wrong.
A few days after Maju made the statement "Death to Israel", Beylerbeyi made the same statement quite blatantly. Did anyone even bat an eyelid? Was it even mentioned on the mods forum? No! Why?
The answer is Beylerbeyi made his context clear in his thread, Maju didn't. However anyone who knew Maju and had spoken with him over several hundred posts would have grasped Maju's context too and know it was not offensive either, dark humour in fact. The mods that criticised him didn't have this knowledge or understanding of how covert his humour was.
So as the post says, the mods "cannot afford to play psychological detective all the time and second guess someone's motive" and the misinterpretation of his post was left in tact.
So where does the fault lay. Maju for unlike Beylerbayi not telegraphing his intent, the mods for not realising his intent, the system for being designed to deal with blatant flamers and trolls, but not being designed to deal with anything more ambiguous and complex.
Well Maju should have been more clued in and realised the flaws of the moderation system, after all he was a moderator himself for a time.
The mods themselves deal with a lot of sh*t, 99% of the time they are dealing with some real wankers, with no other intent than acting like prats and being destructive towards the forum. They are also not perfect, and human too, so after dealing incessant nonsense can be effected and show emotion, bias and bad judgement when dealing with a complex issue.
But really it's the system I blame. As Flyingzone says "There are some cases in which the violation is more questionable and requires more discussion. But this particular case, which had been discussed among moderators"
I should add on the moderators forum. Josef K and Franz Kafka's The Trial come to mind. For those a who don't know, a man who is accused of a crime, is not allowed to know the charges, is presumed guilty until proven innocent, is not allowed to address the court and the discussions go on behind his back. Perhaps the current system should be known as AE's The Trial.
Outside AE trials are public, the defendant can address and debate with his judges, he can meet his accusers, he can defend himself. Not on AE. These basic civil rights have been adopted by most countries on earth, for a reason some may say.
Now this isn't necessarily a criticism of all, if a person comes to a forum and post f**k, f**k, f**k, they maybe dont deserved to be treated civilly. But some cases the accused does wish to meet his accusers, know what he's accused of and defend himself. 3 recent cases come to mind, Maju, Land of Aryan and Iran4life.
Now I'm not saying any of them are right, any should or would have won, but when mods objections to their plight is dismissed by mods on a secret forum on the basis of, of course they're guilty, their objections should be derided. Something has gone wrong.
|
|
|
Cywr
King
Retired AE Moderator
Joined: 03-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6003
|
Posted: 19-May-2006 at 23:38 |
Never the less, it didn't stop Bey from leaving :(
|
Arrrgh!!"
|
|
Spartakus
Tsar
terörist
Joined: 22-Nov-2004
Location: Greece/Hellas
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4489
|
Posted: 20-May-2006 at 07:58 |
In the end,the forum will naturally have problems due to it's immense growth.I mean,in Google Search for History forums Allempires is second,second!If you look to the new members indication,you will see that more members enter every day,while sth like that in the past needed days to happen.AE is growing,and naturally it will have to cope with the problems of all big forums.There are forums with more than 10.000 members out there(some with more than 50.000) and compared to them,AE is a freaking Paradise.So,stop complaing and be realists.You are in the Net World.
|
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
|
|
Cyrus Shahmiri
Administrator
King of Kings
Joined: 07-Aug-2004
Location: Iran
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6240
|
Posted: 20-May-2006 at 12:33 |
Oh come on!Maju was an egoistic prick!AE members begged him for 5 web-pages(!) and he did not even bother to answer to them.He did not respect them and the rest of us.So i say,to Hell! |
Because he sees double standard in this forum, he just said "Death to Israel" (obviously he meant Israeli state not Israelites), something which is said more than "Salam" (hello) in Islamic countries, but the interesting thing is that he is warned by those who themsleves have said many things so much worse than him about Israel!!
just look at this thread: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5066
Originally posted by Komnenos
If the Israeli terror group, commonly refered to as the "Israeli army" would be dissolved or at least stopped its terrorist actions against the Palestinian population. The Israeli state was formed with the help of a terror group,the "Haganah" that employed similar tactics as the Palestinian militant groups do now, and the "Haganah" evolved into the Israeli army which until today continues the proud traditions of its predecessor. |
Originally posted by Yiannis
I also feel that the real terrorist is the Israeli army and the politicians who command it to do such acrocities. |
Originally posted by Zagros
Israel is not too disimilar under the skin from Nazi Germany. |
Edited by Cyrus Shahmiri - 20-May-2006 at 12:34
|
|
|
rider
Tsar
Suspended
Joined: 09-Aug-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4664
|
Posted: 20-May-2006 at 13:28 |
I would add, that in case of LandofAryan, Seko and azimuth made
similiar mesages as LandofAryan but that didn't give them anything.
I must agree with thegeneral, one year ago alot of things would have been done differently.
|
|