AE is not run well by both members and mo
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: All Empires Community
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URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11985
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Topic: AE is not run well by both members and mo
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Subject: AE is not run well by both members and mo
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 05:25
I have to complain to all you members of AE, it is really a disaster for this forum that we see everyday its veteran members such as Maju and Land of Aryans are leaving it!  I still feel bad when I remember our various historical discussions with Ihsan, however he has left AE for a long time!  Lets respect those who contribute much to this community and help to keep them here!  ------------- 
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Replies:
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 07:51
Oh come on!Maju was an egoistic prick!AE members begged him for 5 web-pages(!) and he did not even bother to answer to them.He did not respect them and the rest of us.So i say,to Hell! ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: flyingzone
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 08:12
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Being a longtime member does not immune him or her from saying bad or offensive things and acting irresponsibly. I was a big fan and supporter of Maju until he made this unacceptable remark ("Death to Israel") and his subsequent infantile action. Trust me I am no fan of Israel's policies, but calling for the death of a nation is clearly a violation of AE's Code of Conduct. Even though I do believe that longtime members deserve respect from us (and in Maju's case all he received was a warning), administrators and moderators cannot overlook their blatant disregard of AE's Code of Conduct if it happens. As a matter of fact, since they are veteran members, they should know better themselves. I think we shouldn't just fixate on old members and those "good old days". People come and go. Good and bad people leave, but at the same time good and bad people are joining us all the time too. ------------- |
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 08:23
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Cyrus linking Maju's and Ihsan's and Land of Aryan's leaving as they were forced to leave, Ihsan was a Moderator and Left because he started a new Forum and wanted to give most of his time to that forum and AFAIK it didnt work that well and now he is taking time off PC. i hope he comes back to AE, i always ask about him. Maju left because he is acting like a Baby and his action in that thread required a warning and MOST of the Moderators agreed on Komnenos's decision in issuing that Warning, i think he felt that he is spending lots of time here and wanted and Excuse to leave, he made up a pathatic excuse and left although Mods and Members sent him PM and made posts in his leaving thread asking him to re-consider. Land of Aryan Tried to make disturbance in the Forum by making Fault accusations to cover his ignorance and Nationalists agenda in the forum, and luckly he Failed, his failure made him decide to leave, and then his leaving thread which is trolling and trying make flam wars and be a leader of a riot against mods caused his BAN . he is one of the good Iranian contributers to the Forums, too bad that he decided to leave because others think differently than him.
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so Cyrus as you can see all three cases are Different and no one of the three above were asked to leave the forum, all left the forum from their own decision. (or got themselvs warned and banned in case of maju and land of aryan) --------------- pleople leaving and comming is natural thing.
we have many Good new Members who are great contributers and Intellectulas.
Rules are the rules, if there is some rule need to be changed them Members are MORE than WELLCOME to give their suggestions and Ideas.
 after all this forum is for everybody.
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Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 12:33
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Although no names have been mentioned, I would like to point out that all of AE's moderators involved in any of the cases above mentioned , and in all others not mentioned here, have acted with the fullest support of the current Forum Administation and will do so in the future.
At the moment there is no need to change AE' staff policy in trying to maintain a history forum, even if that might lead in isolated cases to longstanding members leaving the forum, as they no longer agree with AE's policies. This is highly regrettable, but a forum free of flame wars and unwanted nationalist propaganda might attract members we actually would like to be here. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 12:50
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Atleast I will be here until the worlds change...
But I have no idea who thinks it is a good thing...
It seems to me that eventually, all will return. Hopefully. ------------- |
Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 15:23
You are such a pharisee
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Posted By: ulrich von hutten
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 16:56
allthough this is "only" the internet and the world will turn around another few years without our beloved ae-forum and many other important questions are waiting to be answered ,i support with my full encouragement the mods of ae. go your own way and don't listen to this voices of ignorance and dullness. ------------- 
http://imageshack.us"> 
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Posted By: Jagatai Khan
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 17:25
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As Ihsan, TJK and Cornellia can be called. These are all symbolic names in AE's history and I think old members and admins can call them back. ------------- |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 17:45
I agree with Flyingzone, like it's components[the members] the Forum is a living changing entity, in flux if you will, constantly. We have lost some members who were frequent contributors, the personality of AE has changed, as it will continue to. However, the Moderators have done the job they are expected to do and have done it well and under fire, unfairly I might add. AE will go on. ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Thegeneral
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:14
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Gosh, Maju was a great asset to this place, and when he says one thing (which I DO NOT agree with the slightest) he gets run out of here by a mob. This place is no longer a place for itellectual talks. It has gone farther downhill than I ever thought possible. And this new background has prompted me to leave as well. This is no longer the AE I remember. ------------- 
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Posted By: hugoestr
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:20
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Hi, thegen,
I may remind you that there was a 5 page, I repeat, five page begathon thread asking him to stay. The mob asked him to stay; he decided to go. We must respect that decision. :) ------------- |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:22
If there is any demand, we could open a "AE Veterans" sub-forum, where the old members could meet over a cup of milky tea and chocolate digestives and talk about the good old times and moan about the modern ones. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: The Charioteer
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 18:36
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IMO, Maju's leave is definately a regretful event here at AE. although he was appearing passionate about the debate, and his remark "Death to Israel" was definately inappropriate, inappropriate not because of what he was trying to argue about the implication of "anti-israel" terms, but because its not necessarily the way to express it for a rather well-minded long time member who contributed much here.Yet, if "Death to Israel" means Death to Zionist policy of Israel state, then its not necessarily interpreted as the same to "Death to the state of Israel" or "Death to Israeli people and their state".
Then its like to say "Death to Japan!" or "Death to Germany!", only they are specifically referring to the state of Germany embracing Nazism, or state of Japan run by militaristic government.
If so, warning to Maju is equally inappropriate behaviour because calling fellow forumer "egoistic prick!" is obviously inappropriate behaviour yet receives no punishment. ------------- |
Posted By: flyingzone
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 20:22
We as moderators cannot afford to play psychological detective all the time and second guess someone's motive when that person makes a statement that so blatantly breaks AE's Code of Conduct. There are some cases in which the violation is more questionable and requires more discussion. But this particular case, which had been discussed among moderators nevertheless, was more straightforward at least IMHO. And let's not forget the fact that all he received was a warning. Were we too heavy-handed? I don't think so.
I think you are comparing apples to oranges here. If someone says "death to flyingzone,", that person should be warned even if what that person really means is death to flyingzone being a communist or an atheist. However, I've been called many things, including being ignorant, hypocritical, stupid, arrogant, boring, etc. I am of course offended, but there's nothing I can do about that. Of course if the same person repeatedly picks on me and uses the same insult, that's another story. That's trolling.
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Posted By: Paul
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 21:21
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I think this is the first post, since all these lengthy discussions across many posts and forums began, to hit the crux of the argument, and also explains how the mods got it so wrong. A few days after Maju made the statement "Death to Israel", Beylerbeyi made the same statement quite blatantly. Did anyone even bat an eyelid? Was it even mentioned on the mod’s forum? No! Why? The answer is Beylerbeyi made his context clear in his thread, Maju didn't. However anyone who knew Maju and had spoken with him over several hundred posts would have grasped Maju's context too and know it was not offensive either, dark humour in fact. The mods that criticised him didn't have this knowledge or understanding of how covert his humour was. So as the post says, the mods "cannot afford to play psychological detective all the time and second guess someone's motive" and the misinterpretation of his post was left in tact. So where does the fault lay. Maju for unlike Beylerbayi not telegraphing his intent, the mods for not realising his intent, the system for being designed to deal with blatant flamers and trolls, but not being designed to deal with anything more ambiguous and complex. Well Maju should have been more clued in and realised the flaws of the moderation system, after all he was a moderator himself for a time. The mods themselves deal with a lot of sh*t, 99% of the time they are dealing with some real wankers, with no other intent than acting like prats and being destructive towards the forum. They are also not perfect, and human too, so after dealing incessant nonsense can be effected and show emotion, bias and bad judgement when dealing with a complex issue. But really it's the system I blame. As Flyingzone says "There are some cases in which the violation is more questionable and requires more discussion. But this particular case, which had been discussed among moderators" I should add on the moderators forum. Josef K and Franz Kafka's The Trial come to mind. For those a who don't know, a man who is accused of a crime, is not allowed to know the charges, is presumed guilty until proven innocent, is not allowed to address the court and the discussions go on behind his back. Perhaps the current system should be known as AE's ‘The Trial‘. Outside AE trials are public, the defendant can address and debate with his judges, he can meet his accusers, he can defend himself. Not on AE. These basic civil rights have been adopted by most countries on earth, for a reason some may say. Now this isn't necessarily a criticism of all, if a person comes to a forum and post f**k, f**k, f**k, they maybe don’t deserved to be treated civilly. But some cases the accused does wish to meet his accusers, know what he's accused of and defend himself. 3 recent cases come to mind, Maju, Land of Aryan and Iran4life. Now I'm not saying any of them are right, any should or would have won, but when mods objections to their plight is dismissed by mods on a secret forum on the basis of, of course they're guilty, their objections should be derided. Something has gone wrong. ------------- Light blue touch paper and stand well back http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk - http://www.maquahuitl.co.uk http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk - http://www.toltecitztli.co.uk |
Posted By: Cywr
Date Posted: 19-May-2006 at 23:38
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Never the less, it didn't stop Bey from leaving :(
-------------  Arrrgh!!"
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Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 07:58
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In the end,the forum will naturally have problems due to it's immense growth.I mean,in Google Search for History forums Allempires is second,second!If you look to the new members indication,you will see that more members enter every day,while sth like that in the past needed days to happen.AE is growing,and naturally it will have to cope with the problems of all big forums.There are forums with more than 10.000 members out there(some with more than 50.000) and compared to them,AE is a freaking Paradise.So,stop complaing and be realists.You are in the Net World. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 12:33
Because he sees double standard in this forum, he just said "Death to Israel" (obviously he meant Israeli state not Israelites), something which is said more than "Salam" (hello) in Islamic countries, but the interesting thing is that he is warned by those who themsleves have said many things so much worse than him about Israel!! just look at this thread: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5066 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5066
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Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 13:28
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I would add, that in case of LandofAryan, Seko and azimuth made
similiar mesages as LandofAryan but that didn't give them anything. I must agree with thegeneral, one year ago alot of things would have been done differently. ------------- |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 14:27
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Because he sees double standard in this forum, he just said "Death to Israel" (obviously he meant Israeli state not Israelites), something which is said more than "Salam" (hello) in Islamic countries, but the interesting thing is that he is warned by those who themsleves have said many things so much worse than him about Israel!!
It did not bothered me what he said there,which could have been pure humour.But the whole incident showed how arrogant he is.He did not replied to the other members,who begged him,maybe i will have to say it again, begged him to stay for 5 web-pages(!).He did not respect them.Arrogance is not needed here. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Seko
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 14:53
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One of the postive aspects of this forum is our ability to honestly share our thoughts and feelings with eachother. Cyrus Shahmiri shared his concerns about long time members finding it difficult to stay here after they had been disciplined. I think we all feel for those who spent so much time here that they kind of deserve a 'get out of jail' card when in trouble. Maybe they do and maybe they don't. What has been done is done. And it all happened by the rules we learned to follow. I also noticed that some of those members could not stomach a warning. They were too proud to even say sorry. So they left. Maju left without a trace. That was his decision. We still wonder about him. Land of Aryan left by creating a disturbance for me and the mods. Hence part of the reason for this thread.
Well I've got something to say to both of them. You all had chances to redeem yourselves. Nothing too difficult really. Both could have continued here. Instead they disrespected this forum by vacating without closure or by sabotage. Either way, I have no repsect left for either one of them.
I think members appreciate the effort we (mods) provide by controlling the fringe elements and by establishing a common understanding that has brought mutual respect. I, for one, have learned to appreciate the many voices we have here. And I will continue to safeguard AE from dysfunction. I also want to continue fostering respect for all members by maintaining our decency. That is the way I want to keep AE. As a very special place for us all. I think most of you will agree. ------------- |
Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 14:58
I agree the most moderators do their work with competence, but sadly a little groupe of "rotten apples" and hypocrites make the life so hard for the users.
Cyrus has a very good reason to post this thread.
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Posted By: The Charioteer
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 15:12
Im not comparing necessarily, but i do remind and question the AE code of conduct& terms of use which is just above our head
http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6512 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6512
"8. Negative attitude; tone of confrontation, annoyance, or contempt; disrespectful toward other members. "
with regard to this person's behaviour
which i view it clearly violates code 8
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Posted By: DayI
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 15:26
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no charioteer, i would post something similar as Spartakus did, because "some people" did actually beg him to stay for pages, he didnt even bothered to answer taht he couldnt or so. Thats what i call egoism. ------------- Bu mıntıka'nın Dayı'sı http://imageshack.us - [IMG - http://www.allempires.com/forum/uploads/DayI/2006-03-17_164450_bscap021.jpg - |
Posted By: flyingzone
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 15:35
I take offence to anyone calling any fellow moderator of mine a "rotten apple" or a "hypocrite." We are not perfect, but we don't deserve to be called as such.
Would you do any better if you were in our shoes? ------------- |
Posted By: ramin
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 16:15
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I think he was referring to those users who increase the sensitivity of the environment in these forums, not the moderators. and I would agree with him, as the number of members increase it'll be more difficult to keep the community intellectually immune. There must be something done to avoid the massive migration to such forums. after all, it's the decision of administrators whether they care more about quality or quantity. The bigger the forum, the lower the level of intellectuality. After all, I think some newcomers are making it more difficult for others, because they are simply looking for a place to hang out and talk like they cannot talk in real life, jump on those who cannot jump!.. and simply share interesting stuff they find while surfing web and chatrooms. In effect of that, the rules of AE will be more strick and must be carried out with no exceptions and more frequently regardless of the intentions of users. This would hurt the core of AE. here has turned to be a site for childish conflictions. AE Tavern is probably the most active section which is very disappointing for a community with its original idea of 'discussing history.' Something effective must be done if people wish to keep the AE logo (=purpose) as is. ------------- "I won't laugh if a philosophy halves the moon" 
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Posted By: The Charioteer
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 16:15
Thanks for the enlightenment DayI.
But really, i dont care whatever makes you or Spartakus behave like that, but that kind of behaviour itself is violating AE code and if so both of you deserve punishment accordingly with the automatic response of the system.
Just as we dont care why would Maju make remark like "Death to Israel", but as his behaviour was blatantly breaking the rule(as put by Flyingzone) of AE, and he got what he deserved.
And what has his(Maju) supposed "arrogance" in which he "insulted" forumers by not showing up and responding, to do with enforce AE's code of conduct?
Besides, IMHO, he posted the thread to announce his leaving, is meant to say good bye to old friends he have met here during his stay, but since he has already made up his mind to leave, hes not necessarily obligated to response further as he supposedly has left. Even if those were good intentioned posts by members which "begged" him to stay. Maju's has supposedly left already, what we then supposedly expect much from him?
Indeed if he left without even acknowlegding his decision and saying good bye as a long time member with quite good number of friends here. Then he should be accused of "arrogant". but he didnt.
Just like "Death to Israel" might be misinterpreted or misunderstood, perhaps, may be his supposed "arrogance" is really replay of what cause him had left.
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Posted By: Maziar
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 16:56
For sure not, but i would learn from the past to make me better!! as i said the most of you are good moderators.
Btw what bothers me is not that you are not perfect, neither i am perfect. What bothers me are thoes who close threads only if they don't like it, or abuse their moderator's power to intimidate users.
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Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 17:11
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Besides, IMHO, he posted the thread to announce his leaving, is meant to say good bye to old friends he have met here during his stay, but since he has already made up his mind to leave, hes not necessarily obligated to response further as he supposedly has left. Even if those were good intentioned posts by members which "begged" him to stay. When your friend asks you to stay,then ,as his friend, you try to explain him why you leave.You do not just say i go,and then you leave without talking to your friends,who begged you to stay. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 17:23
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I would like to point out that I sent a long and somewhat groveling e-mail to maju, about a week after him posting his leaving thread, asking him to re-consider on behalf and for the benefit of all the many members who had asked him to stay.
Maju refused, mentioning something of a Zionist conspiracy and was gone again. Draw your own conclusions. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 18:08
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Please, if you can and it is no secrecy then show us this message and his response.
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Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 20-May-2006 at 21:11
Having just read Komnenos' latest post re his reply to Komenos' e mail, perhaps it was not arrogance we were seeing. Reviewing his posts over the month prior to his outburst and comparing them with earlier posts, Maju didn't seem like himself. ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 21-May-2006 at 12:31
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Maybe something happened to him and he felt that elimanting AE from his life would do to ease the pain? ------------- |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 21-May-2006 at 13:14
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It's possible something in his real life[ we all make jokes about not having one outside of AE, but we all do] may have been exerting pressure of some kind, stress can effect us in some strange ways. I went to his website last pm and the last post was 5/4 considering he was Gungh Ho about getting it running that seems odd in its self. I know there has been a lot of political turmoil in the Basque regions recently, perhaps that was affecting him, I don't know. ------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 22-May-2006 at 13:06
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No I believe it had to something very personal... ------------- |
Posted By: Richard XIII
Date Posted: 22-May-2006 at 14:25
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"Much Ado About Nothing" - William Shakespeare You talk too much about Maju. Death to: Iran, Canada, USA, Romania, Italy, Turkey, Bulgaria, Greece, Germany and so on. You like that. Of course not. To be warning is necessary, if he doesn't support is his problem. ------------- "I want to know God's thoughts... ...the rest are details." Albert Einstein |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 07:33
Personal problems? Hell,we did not ask him to marry AE! ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 08:31
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Do not take this as an insult Spartakus, but lately you and your behaviour, your comments and everything have just struck me... Or I just never before communicated with you. ------------- |
Posted By: Digenis
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 08:39
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I think the moderators,should think a bit why moderate and thinking members ,lately are feeling outraged with the forum,or leave.. I dont think its their behaviour that changed, but the "governors" of this forum. ------------- |
Posted By: Northman
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 14:27
Rider, IMO a PM is is to be considered as - , and is equal to a private letter and should NOT be posted in public.
I hope we all can expect, accept and respect that kind of privacy from one another.
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Posted By: The Charioteer
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 16:52
I dont particular want to others to know that i also think Maju represent balance here(like Mira says, and she left afterward) .
If it was not for this sort of disgusting behaviors, i wouldnt even give a word regarding the event.
It was kinda too much  (i rarely use emoticons, this the time i should!)------------- |
Posted By: flyingzone
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 17:49
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One of the most gentlemanly and mild-mannered AE members has finally joined the "Club of Angry Emoticon" ....
Seriously Chariotter, there is really no need to be fretted by this issue anymore. Let's just move on. ------------- |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 23-May-2006 at 17:54
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Do not take this as an insult Spartakus, but lately you and your behaviour, your comments and everything have just struck me... It's not an insult of course,but you should get used to my late behaviour. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 24-May-2006 at 00:35
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But I will not start a flame war and that is what your last post suggests me to do...
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Posted By: Komnenos
Date Posted: 24-May-2006 at 00:41
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This has turned into a personal and utterly pointless debate.
As suggested, if you want exchange personal insults, do it via PM. ------------- [IMG]http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i137/komnenos/crosses1.jpg"> |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 24-May-2006 at 07:30
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But I will not start a flame war and that is what your last post suggests me to do...
It does not suggest anything.And even if you were to start a flame war,you would lose it. ------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |