Turkey member of E.U

sorry, english is not my best language


Edited by erci

You've experienced, what Kurds experience all days long. The Kurds have touched their dead. The Kurds have suffered. The Kurds are the ones who couldn't speak their own language. And remember all those things you've experienced, is in KURDISTAN! You are comming to our lands and killing us. The Turks don't live in Southeastern Turkey, that's Kurdish lands.

Turks also touched their death, but couldn't recognize the bodies left were humans or not. The Turks have suffered more. The Kurds are the ones who dont prefer to speak their language. Kurdish teaching schools, funded and built by the government, closed because of lack of attending. Kurdish program on TV, ended, lack of interest. Kurdish speaking public meetings, still EVERYWHERE. You cant see much shop signs in Diyarbak�r with Kurdish names. We have tones of "Keje, Berivan etc." in East, we even had serial TV program names in Kurdish.

There is no country called Kurdistan. If there will appear some, it will be in Iraq. Kurdistan is just a region, created by Ottoman Empire to balance the Christian population of East. The Turks dont live in southeastern Turkey, also no Assyrians anymore. Who got rid of Assyrians for becoming a dominant population? Who immigrated to west until Hatay to bind thir imaginary Kurdish land to Mediterrannean? Kurds.

We are the ones who are poor, we are the ones who have to fight to speak our own language, your the imperalists. 90% of all battles have been in Kurdistan. You've burnt our forests, killed us, oppressed us for 80 years. YOU THINK WE'LL JUST STAND AND WATCH?

You are POOR? %50 of Turkish illicit trade is under the rule of Kurds. %60 of Turkish mafia is Kurds. Most of the government funds to support investigation and develope cities are seperated and used for building, roads, factories etc. to eastern terratorries. Kurdish businessmen, who are funded and supported by the government to investigate, build fabrics etc. to East, usually prefer to take these funds for building a hotel in antalya. Why? Because they want the regular Kurd to be ignorant, to stay uneducated, to be in poverty. Reasonsfor this... 1. Imperialists want them to do so. 2. PKK forces them to do so. 3. Russian tourists provide them much more income than the Kurds in East.

But still, every 3 Eastern cities' taxes are lower than the tax income of the government from a single hotel in antalya. Every three Eastern cities, are full of Kurds with multiple greencards for the government to provide everykind of drug to them, and trading it. Still, Batman is the capital of terrorism. Still, Van is one of the most richest cities of Turkey.

So if there is a poverty problem of Turkey, it is because of the inhabitants of the east. and IF all the inhabitants of southeast are Kurds, the poverty problem is caused by the Kurds.

You dont fight to speak your own language. You do. And you dont want to learn it from government's Kurdish schools. You are the imperialists, at least their TOOLS. I dont need to explain why.

You've burnt your own forests, go and visit Ardahan, close to Georgian border full of forests 1 cm after the borderline. The Kurds who werent its locals, but immigrated in the last 30 years for imperial purposes, burnt all the forests there as a PKK tradition. Why? Enemy could hide behind them. Turkey's forests are regularly being burnt by Kurdish guerillas. My city's forests have witnessed it too. I guess we arent the true enemies of PKK, but the wild nature and "Greenpeace".

Killed you? Turkey killed the terrorists. Are you a terrorist?

The Armenians who entered Van were from the Russian Empire, and were doing their duty as Russian citizens. Armenia became independant in 1918, and not during the Russian offensive.

Well, most villages of Kars were burnt by their Armenian neighbors and inhabitants. Were they also Russian citizens since Kars was an Ottoman land under Russian invasion? Armenia became independent that year, because Ottoman Empire didnt let them to succeed their plans of ethnic domination before.

Armenians even dont accept they have betrayed their country and massacred their Muslim neighbors with the support of Russia, and armed Armenian gangs massacring women and children, whose fathers were on military missons. How can you expect us to recognize a massacre, and even call it a "genocide", in the terms created by diasporas, using their best weapons to stop Turkey from entering EU and force us to accept, their votes. Why didnt the Armenians care about making us accept a genocide until 1988? Because we werent debating to become a EU member before? Diasporas are the second tools against Turkey, after PKK.

So... Turkey doesn't recognize the Greek part of Cyprus, the Armenian Genocide, and denies Kurdish rights

Except Kurdish rights, the rest are totally right and will always stay right.

Turkey also supports Azerbaijan in blockading Armenia's Western and Eastern frontiers. Those are good reasons to deny Turkish entry in the European Union.

Of course we support Azerbaijan, not only us was against Armenian occupation, but also the UN. We alsu supported Bosnia, and I am proud of it. So we did the right thing. Azerbaijan and Turkey are brother nations. When our brothers are invaded and their rights are denied, we should definately be involved.

Do Kurds have their own university, like the Catalonians in Spain have? Do they have their own parliament, like the Scottish in the UK have? Do people who are in representative bodies in Kurdistan have to have at least a passive knowledge of the language, like in Friesland in the Netherlands? Are the road signs in Kurdistan in bilingual, like in Basque Country, Catalonia, Friuli, Gascony, Brittany, Friesland, Occitania, Graubunden, Galicia, Scotland, Wales, etc. etc. etc.? In some of these regions the road signs are even monolingual, that is only in the minority language.

1. Turkey is a UNITER state like France, not semifederal like Spain.

Do the Corsican have all these rights? Or the Alsas lorrianners? Or the Muslims of France? Oe etc. etc.?

The treaty of Lausanne, which is internationally recognized, gives Turkey the right to become UNITER, and stay as it is. It gives us the law to recognize Rums, Armenians and Jews as minorities. Not Kurds. Kurds are a minority. But not autonomous. and will never become, at least in Turkey.

BTW, we dont have much road signs in southeast, they are regularly stolen by PKK, sold in trade or used for iron needs. Or simply burned because they belong to governmnt.

And besides, many European countries did aknowlegde past misdeeds (mostly colonial atrocities and slave trade).

Does American accept the native genocide? French the Algerian genocide? Dutch, the massacres and torture in South Africa and lots of other colonies? British, the massacres CAUSED all around Ottoman Empire (they were the supporters and the provokers, always).

They may have acknowledged their past mistakes, but the issue is, we cant accept something that is CHANGED into ideal European forms such as a term of "genocide", or something very one sided discussed, but also our people still memorize how much they suffered from the opposite view?

I don't know this exact case, but several European countries don't extradite suspected PKK terrorists to Turkey because they are not very likely to get a fair trial, and not because EU countries like or support those terrorists.

Turkey even withdrew the law of execution to become fair in terms of europe, and Abdullah �calan, still alive, still rules PKK from his suite in Imrali. EU countries like the support PKK, like they liked to support their worst enemy, El Kaida once against Russia. Terrorism. The modern imperial power held by the "civilized" people of west.

Fahriye Erdal, killed a Turkish businessman and escaped to Europe, hided and protected by Belgium, lives as the queen there. PKK supporting meetings were very regular everywhere in Europe, altough PKK has been acknowledged and recognized as a terrorist group by them. Sweden, Norway were the best supporters of PKK after Greece, Syria and USA. Which European objectivity and neutrality are you talking about? Europe is no better than US or Russia, all imperialist powers of today, but the only difference is, they use the TOOL they call "human rights" in cases of their benefits. In other cases like Srebrenica, well, let the butchers do what they want, and erase the offspring of Turk right?

Europe is the main supporter of PKK, Greece, Sweden, Belgium, Norway, Italy etc., and the main armer, educater, funder of its terrorists. Shame on us that our sold leaders are begging in front of their statues of Pope Sixthus II.

there are Arabs claiming to be Turks?

No azimuth. Ataturk tought us to hate from those Arabs as you said. So they dont claim to be Turks no more.

NO to EU, for the pride, and the benefits of my people...

Edited by Oguzoglu

"The Turks have suffered more. The Kurds are the ones who dont prefer to speak their language. Kurdish teaching schools, funded and built by the government, closed because of lack of attending. Kurdish program on TV, ended, lack of interest. Kurdish speaking public meetings, still EVERYWHERE. You cant see much shop signs in Diyarbak�r with Kurdish names. We have tones of "Keje, Berivan etc." in East, we even had serial TV program names in Kurdish.

There is no country called Kurdistan. If there will appear some, it will be in Iraq. Kurdistan is just a region, created by Ottoman Empire to balance the Christian population of East. The Turks dont live in southeastern Turkey, also no Assyrians anymore. Who got rid of Assyrians for becoming a dominant population? Who immigrated to west until Hatay to bind thir imaginary Kurdish land to Mediterrannean? Kurds."

Your so full of nonsense Oguzoglu...

Originally posted by Oguzoglu Sweden, Norway were the best supporters of PKK after Greece, Syria and USA.

When you present bullsh*t you'd better present some evidence too, so people can shred it in pieces.

Mortaza: You don't have to be a supporter of PKK just becuase you know that TURKEY is a bad state. A facist state, a military state.

 

Mortaza

You once again strive to prove your ignorance, even though we all know of it.
There is NO minority problem in Hellas, there is NO repression, unlike Turkey.
Since your country has so much proof of us supporting the PKK why has the Turkish goverment conveniently NEVER provided it to any, NOT EVEN ONE international organization, has NEVER made any formal COMPLAINT, NO REACTION WHAT SO EVER !!!!!!

Simple because they are all based on imaginary claims and fabricated facts.

This issue isn't between Turks and Kurds it's between civilized world and uncivilized Turkey, it's between those that can't stand the killings of innocent people and those that enjoy having blood on their hands
Since you dare want to enter the EU, hell yes it is my buisness, it is the buisness of all of us that won't stand such persecutions, it's all about persecuting minorities as seen here, just 2 months ago.

Before you talk about minorities, think what  Sept. 6 is all about.

Christians are being harassed in Turkey
Jun 23rd 2005
From The Economist print edition

On the edge of a village near Midyat is a stone building whose fate may test Turkey's commitment to the European Union. Thirty Kurdish families in Bardakci use it as a mosque. But members of Turkey's Syrian Orthodox Christian minority (or Syriacs) insist it is St Mary's church, which served their community for 200 years until civil strife and economic hardship forced them out. They want it back.

Some 3,000 Syriacs in the south-east say their land and houses have been seized, not just by Kurds, but also by the state. In Kayseri, an American couple were recently sent death threats by e-mail because they are "Christian." A Protestant pastor in Izmit province received a menacing letter and found a red swastika painted on his door. In Tarsus, a New Zealand missionary was beaten up and then told to leave by the mayor.

"Protestants are the most persecuted group in Turkey," says Ihsan Ozbek, pastor of the Kurtulus Protestant church in Ankara. That may be exaggerated, but respecting the religious freedom of non-Muslims will be critical to Turkey's hopes of joining the EU. For a while Turkey did well. Laws against Christians repairing churches were scrapped, enabling the Syriacs to restore the ancient Mar Gabriel monastery near Bardakci. Another law was passed to let non-Muslim religious foundations buy land. Timoteus Samuel Aktas, the metropolitan of Mar Gabriel, proudly shows off a new recreation centre for monks at his monastery. Yet recent attacks against Syriacs, including the detonation of a landmine under a car, have rung alarms - and made fellow Syriacs in Europe reconsider plans to return.

The government's failure to denounce these attacks has been aggravated by its attempts to sell land in Bardakci that the Syriacs claim as their own. They have petitioned the authorities in Ankara, who have yet to respond. Some observers see this as a sign of the "reform fatigue" bedeviling the government of Recep Tayyip Erdogan ever since he won the date of October 3rd for the start of EU membership talks. Others detect a mounting campaign against Christians by Islamist forces within Mr Erdogan's party.

One shot was fired by the state institution that micro-manages religious life in Turkey, when it issued a sermon on March 11th to be preached at some 75,000 officially registered mosques. The sermon talked of the dangers posed to national unity by missionaries, who "work as a part of a plan to cut the ties of our citizens with the [Islamic] faith." This was followed by a statement by Mehmet Aydin, the minister for religious affairs, calling missionary activities "separatist and destructive." He was praised by nationalists, who fear that Europe has plans to convert Turks to Christianity. It matters little that only 300 souls have defected in the past eight years - or that proselytizing is legally permitted.

Mr Erdogan still resists calls to reopen the Greek Orthodox Halki seminary on Heybeli island off Istanbul that was shut down in 1971. Allies say his hands are tied so long as he is unable to deliver on
pre-electoral pledges to his pious constituents, especially to ease the ban on the Islamic headscarf in government offices, schools and universities. European diplomats counter that, by denying Christians
their rights, Turkey is strengthening its growing army of detractors within the EU.

Back in Bardakci, Yusuf Ozkahraman, a 64-year-old Kurdish farmer, points smugly at St Mary's church. "Only when the Christian forces become stronger that our state will this mosque be shut to the believers, and that day will never come," he vows.

Cent They are  As I said, they are treating their minority bad too, did you saw any greeks mentioned this?

They give punishment to one who say, There is a Turkish minority in Greece.

Why are they interesting our kurdish minority rights than their turkish minority?

Cent sorry but do you realy thinking Greeks give any sh*t to kurds? Or do you think Greece is working for Kurdish minority? They are interesting with kurds, because They want to harm Turkey and Infact They are destroying any sypmaty to kurdish cause.

Sweden, Norway were the best supporters of PKK after Greece, Syria and USA.

Well, we know sweden refused to sanction PKK, we knoe greece and syria support to PKK, but I wont say It is same for USA. Infact USA helped us much and I have no much knowledge about Norway.

Mortaza: Greeks and Kurds have the same enemy: the Turkish state...

Well, PKK may be a terroristgroup in your eyes, but to the Kurdish population in Turkey they are freedom fighters. I have my opinion about the situation and you have yours...

Originally posted by phalanx This issue isn't between Turks and Kurds it's between civilized world and uncivilized Turkey, it's between those that can't stand the killings of innocent people and those that enjoy having blood on their hands.

This is completely unacceptable, even by your standards.
Thread temporarily closed.

Thread closed for obvious reasons.
Having critised phalanx above, I must say he is not the only one here that once again let this thread turn in one of our beloved flame-wars.