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Serbia’s Hungarian minority growing more frustrated

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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Serbia’s Hungarian minority growing more frustrated
    Posted: 10-Jan-2006 at 20:30
I remember a story a few months ago in which the Hungarian government said they would not rule out military intervention to protect ethnic Hungarian civilians in Serbia's northern province, Vojvodina.

They threatened to bring Serbia and Montenegro before the United Nations if appropriate steps weren't taken, but the violence subsided.

Now it's back and the leader in the region is pissed again:

The leader of the Hungarian minority in Vojvodina Jozef Kasa stated:" The Serb police is not sufficiently active - again!"

Kasa backed his statement with the information about a nationalistic incident in the village Torda, municipality of itite, Vojvodina, which occured at Christmas (celebrated according to the Gregorian calendar).

"Reasonable people have started to believe that Vojvodina Hungarians can forget the word "hate crime" but this latest incident is a new warning that not everything is all right between the minorities and the majority in Serbia-Montenegro" said Kasa for Hungarian informative site Vajdasag.ma

According to Vajdasag, in a local club in Torda, a group of youngsters from the nearby village of Cestereg shouted "This is Serbia" and demanded violently that instead of playing songs in English and Hungarian, only songs in Serbian be played.

The police removed them from the club, but they continued with nationalistic and hate shouting in the village square. Police noted down this incident only as "disturbance of public peace".

Incidents of this sort, as well as the statements that one of the leading figures in the Serb Radical Party ultranationalist Tomislav Nikolić gave for the press just harm the peace between Serbia-Montenegro and all its neighbors.

Nikolic said:"I tell Ratko Mladić and Radovan Karadić not to give themselves up alive. I tell them that they can not go to Hague, and if police come to their doors, they should kill themselves."

If they negotiate, their "reputation" and "reputation" of Serbia-Montenegro will be ruined.

"The question is why it took them then 10 years to reach Hague. It is immoral for them to go there voluntarily, and it is anti-Serbian for them to get there as arrested men. If they get caught, they should kill themselves."

"Because if they are caught, if that Serbian myth is destroyed, they know what they have to do." Nikolić said for Beta, later published AFP.

Nikolić is acting president of SRS (Srpske radikalne stranke) instead of Vojislav eelj, currently on trial in the Hague at ICTY for war crimes.

It goes on and on about Bosnia and Croatia, but that's fine - this is about Hungarians this time.

Any Hungarians here have anything from the media in their country to share?
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  Quote Surbel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jan-2006 at 23:27
Is Vojvodina Another Kosovo?
Carl Savich
May 30, 2005
 

Introduction: Vojvodina: The Next Kosovo?

There has been alarmist rhetoric about Vojvodina becoming the next Kosovo. In 2004, there were many manufactured propaganda incidents a la the Racak Massacre that appeared to presage another Kosovo conflict. Is there any truth to these claims? What is the history of Vojvodina? And is there a racist, ethnically-based Greater Hungary movement in Vojvodina that parallels the Greater Albania ideology in Kosovo? Is Vojvodina another Kosovo? Is Vojvodina the next Kosovo?

In his article Vojvodina: A Hungarian View, in the July 28, 2004 Balkanalysis, Laszly Zuldi, a Hungarian journalist from Budapest, presented the Hungarian view on Vojvodina, arguing in alarmist tones of a time bomb that would create a Hungarian Kosovo. But is this an accurate assessment of what is going on in Vojvodina? Is the Kosovo analogy, the paradigm of Vojvodina as the Hungarian Kosovo, an accurate one?

What happened in Kosovo? Albanian separatists/secessionists launched a US/NATO-sanctioned terrorist war to create a Greater Albania, an independent Kosova. This illegal separatist movement was based on US government and media manufactured propaganda that falsely alleged that a genocide was occurring in Kosovo. This lie was used to illegally bypass the UN and all customs and conventions of international law. Is this what Zuldi is predicting for Vojvodina? If we follow the Kosovo analogy, Zuldi is predicting a Kosovo-like separatist/secessionist conflict where Vojvodina would become an independent state like the proposed Kosova. A manufactured lie would serve as the pretext for US/EU/NATO humanitarian intervention to create a Greater Hungary. Like in an independent Kosova cleansed of all Serbs, Roma, and Jews, all non-Hungarians would arguably be driven out to create a Hungarian ethnic majority. The new independent state would be called Delvidek. Is this what Zuldi has in mind? And if so, why should the US or Hungary be supporting such a genocidal Greater Hungary? Why should anyone support such a racist and genocidal policy to create a Hungarian Kosovo?

Zuldi noted that Vojvodina is one of the most multi-ethnic regions in Europe but he failed to mention that Serbs make up the overwhelming majority of Vojvodina at 65%. As is typical of the New World Order democrats and humanitarians, nothing is said about the majority population and what they think, if they are hostile to US interests. In a democracy, the majority decides, not a 15% minority, such as the Hungarian population of Vojvodina. The Hungarian minority doesnt have the population numbers. In fact, the Hungarian population is declining. The solution for US policy is to negate the will of the majority population. This is what US policy did in the Kosovo conflict. The will of the majority population of Yugoslavia was discounted and ignored. All that mattered was the will of the Albanian minority population. But this was cleverly inverted and manipulated and convoluted by US propaganda. Instead of relying on the will of the majority of Yugoslavia population, US policy relied on the will of the majority Albanian population in the province of Kosovo-Metohija. This reduces democracy to the point of absurdity. It reduces democracy to meaninglessness. It also demonstrates how phony and hollow democracy truly is. Democracy is purely a US propaganda construct with no real world application at all. It is a nice sounding word with absolutely no practical meaning whatsoever. The Kosovo conflict demonstrated this obvious fact very clearly.

In Analysis: Vojvodina, the Hungarian Kosovo, UPI, October 11, 2002, Sam Vaknin argued that Vojvodina was indeed the Hungarian Kosovo. But isnt this just alarmist rhetoric, and inaccurate to boot?

Vaknin focused on the issue of autonomy. But autonomy is a red herring. Adolf Hitler too supported the autonomy of Vojvodina, as did the Communist dictator Josip Broz Tito, and then NATO. Why? They all understood that autonomy would amputate Serbian territory and ultimately destroy Serbian territorial integrity and allow Western penetration of the Balkan region. The whole autonomy issue is a disingenuous game. It is a debate imposed on the Vojvodina issue arbitrarily and artificially. It is perceived as a way to defeat or destroy Serbia by other means, by a creeping secessionism or separatism. Autonomy is just another concept for dismemberment, secession, separatism, and Balkanization.

Moreover, these analysts conveniently forget that the whole autonomy nonsense is an atavistic holdover from the Leninist/Stalinist/Titoist/Communist/Bolshevik era. The concept of autonomy is Leninistic and Stalinistic, a failed and discredited Communist way to solve the nationalities problem.

Zuldi noted that Serbs driven out or ethnically cleansed from Kosovo, the Krajina, Croatia, and Bosnia-Hercegovina, have been forced to settle in Vojvodina as displaced refugees. He refers to them euphemistically as unhappy immigrants. Vaknin terms this an invasion of Vojvodina. But did these Serbs, ethnically cleansed under the very noses of the international community, make a choice to settle in Vojvodina? Wasnt the US-sponsored ethnic cleansing of the Serbian Krajina the reason for the influx or invasion by the unhappy immigrants? But who is to blame for these refugees? Is the Serbian government in Belgrade to blame or the US and NATO? Didnt the US/NATO/EU/UN create the refugee problem in Vojvodina by allowing Albanian extremists to ethnically cleanse and force out over 200,000 Kosovo Serbs, Jews, Roma, and Sinti? Why are Zuldi and Vaknin blaming the victims? Why not blame the US/NATO/EU/UN, who are responsible for the creation of an ethnically pure Kosova?

Zuldi tries unsuccessfully to make it appear like the intolerance is one-sided, only Serbs attacking Hungarians. But then he mentioned that in June, 2004, five Hungarian youths in Vojvodina attacked and severely beat an ethnic Serb in Temerin, only because he was a Serb. It was an ethnically motivated attack, a racist hate crime by the Hungarian minority against the Serbian majority population. But, of course, it was only a retaliatory attack; the Hungarians were merely defending themselves. Zuldi is a propagandist, constructing very simplistic black and white scenarios with only the Hungarians as victims. As a fallback device, he rationalizes and justifies racist attacks by Hungarians against Serbs as retaliation and defensive in nature. But that is just a trick of the propagandist too. It is the victimization scenario. Only Hungarians are ever victims, and only Serbs are ever perpetrators or aggressors.

The US and Hungary as well as the EU seek to use the Vojvodina issue to blackmail Serbia and Montenegro. Zuldi wrote that new EU member Hungary could make life difficult for the Serbs. He is referring to efforts by Hungary to manipulate and extort and blackmail Serbia and Montenegro in seeking to join the EU and other European bodies. But isnt this a reckless and arrogant foreign interference in the affairs of a sovereign state? Hungarian President Ferenc Madl and Foreign Minister Laszlo Kovacs even accused the Serbian government of committing atrocities against the Hungarian minority in 2004.

Zuldi neglects the fascist and Nazi history of the Greater Hungary ideology and movement. The whole autonomy issue in Vojvodina or Delvidek has its roots and origins during World War II and the Holocaust period. In Tanjugs October 28, 2004 article Szegeds 64 Counties Leader Banned from Entering Country, described how Laszlo Toroczkai, a journalist and youth movement leader from Szeged in southern Hungary along with Kornel Kiss and Zerg Zagyva, co-organized a rock concert with Nazi and Greater Hungarian scenography. The concert was held in Mali Idjos outside of Subotica on October 23. They wore black T-shirts signed Delvidek and promoted the Greater Hungary ideology. The reference to 64 counties alludes to the counties that made up Greater Hungary in the Austro-Hungarian period, reaching 64 counties, or varmegye, castle or fortress counties, in 1876. Predictably, this neo-Nazi and neo-fascist event was censored and suppressed in the Western media. There was no analysis by IWPR or RFE/RL or ICG or the New York Times or Washington Post. This neo-Nazi resurgence in Vojvodina was slow news to be suppressed and covered-up.

more on the link below..

http://news.suc.org/bydate/2005/May_30/11.htm

 Mila,many stories like this you can find on the web,but is obviesly  wich side you choose!  I'm not defending crime from Serbian side. But with your approach,i can only came to conclusion that you get paid for all that.
Try with...Honvedi,H
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 03:48
Well, Kosova was a timebomb long before the UCK was formed. I was there and I have some idea of what was going on in that territory under the Milosevic and Arkan administration. Kosova was the first Yugoslavian territory having problems with Serbian revisionism and it was for long a cage where life for the majority of the people (ethnic Albanians) was virtually impossible: a daily nightmare. True that there was no massive ethnic cleansing before the UCK attacks but it's also true that Arkan death squads acted impunely from the very center of Prishtina, killing many and that the nonviolent struggle of Kosovars met with the indiference of both Serbian and international public opinon (though it's also true that at that time Serbian media were heavily biased and government controlled and didn't inform much).

Said that, the inccident reported by Mila reminds me to something I saw with my own eyes while in a Hungarian town of Vojvodina 8whose name I can't recall) in the winter of 1992. We arrived at the town tavern, which was our meeting point there, as we were going to interview the major, a signficative politcal figure among Hungarians of Vojvodina. It happened that it was the birthday of the owner of the tavern and he was totally drunk celebrating. While we were waiting and having a good time, the bar owner, in an impulse took out the compulsory electoral poster of Slovodan Milosevic. Some time later two tall guys, apparently ethnic Serbians appeared in the bar and placed it (or a copy, can't recall) again in the wall, not without some discussion. After they left, only then, the bar owner, took away the poster and tore it apart in a rage attack even biting pieces of it. It was quite impressive and disturbing that two guys could force the placing of a political poster in a private local. But it was no surprise: our Serbian friends of Belgrade (a nice city, btw with some very inteligent and daring people) had us well informed of the pitiful situation under Milosevic's regime and some of its most striking manifestations.

Said that, I doubt that Vojvodina could be another Kosova, mostly because Hungarians are a minority and not the majority of the province. True that they demand the creation of a properly Hungarian province in a smaller territory but I doubt it will ever happen. Still I hope that the multicultural and rather progressive Vojvodina province can get its own police forces and that can help to restore security in the area for all. There's no need for redneck Serbian fascists to be causing any more trouble, I believe.

As a sidenote: Vojvodina was the feud assignated to Seselji's militias in the power arrangements between Milosevic and the Serbian fascists. I have been told by informed people in Belgrade that such arrangements implied that the personal bodyguard of Seselji was appointed directly by Milosevic, so in a graphic way, the Serbian president had always a gun pointing to the head of Seselji. Nice guys, aren't they?

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  Quote DayI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 05:45

Those Serbs deserve again 500 years rule of Ottoman empire, it seems we didnt left there anything else then buildings but next time we will give them humanity, learn to respect nature and other nations btw basis lessions of Islam.



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  Quote cg rommel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 10:25
I just hope they leave us, and the Montenegrins that live in Vojvodina out of this....
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  Quote Surbel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 11:09
Originally posted by DayI

Those Serbs deserve again 500 years rule of Ottoman empire, it seems we didnt left there anything else then buildings but next time we will give them humanity, learn to respect nature and other nations btw basis lessions of Islam.


 
 You boy deserve a little spanking.
Maju notice this:" Serbia was never a fasict country". You are posting about situacion on Albania. Did you know,that TITO was setled after 1945 more then 200.000 Albanians on Kosovo. He's idea was to join the Albania with SFRJ . He suport the comunists in Greece. In 4years 1945-1949 they  made souch problems wich they didn't resolve in next 40year's.
 You didn't ask yourself,why only Serbia had two autonomys and not even one other republic.  It's a very simple question. In Serbia each worker had to pay 20% for non developed regions,all that money goes to Kosovo,can you count how much many is that? Each Albanian family had an avrige triple more kid's then other etnicity in SFRJ,if was so bad how is that possible?
 Some links:
-http://www.kosovo.com/testimonies.html
-http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120887/posts
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  Quote Maju Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 12:54
I don't know if all your claims are true. Sadly Serbian historiography has self-placed on the spot due to false or dubious claims, due to placing nationalism over truth, so, as a precaution I don't believe half of what they say to start with (I do that in many other cases, particularly regarding the Balcans, where one-side-ism is a pandemic).

Anyhow, I was talking about the Milosevician period, not the Titoist period. I know that in Tito's Yugslavia Kosova had a great autonomy though apparently not enough for Albanian claims, who demanded to become a republic like the other ethnies. But I also know that, under Milosevic, the autonomy was reduced to mere name, that ethnic Albanians were expelled from their jobs in the administration and even in the Albanian language TV (which broadcasted with a Montenegrine plaintiff who knew the language) and that political assasinations happened regularly. And all that without Albanians firing a single shot. I never saw children beggars in Belgrade then nor in any other part of Serbia, despite the economic difficulties of the war period (supermarkets depleted, black market everywhere, hyperinflation) but there was a swarm of them in Prishtina.

I also know that Albanian nationalism, curiously enough was born in Kosova and not in Albania proper.

Since the early 90s it was clear that the war of Kosova was a time bomb: all the process of Yugoslavian disintegration started there and couldn't finish without affecting Kosova as well. Things like they are, we like it or not. Guess you can still spit on the tomb of Tito but what you can't have is a homogeneous nation out of a multiethnic one, much less in a short period.

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  Quote cg rommel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 13:01
I think we should be talking about Hungarians, not Albanians....
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  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 14:34
Lol, nice quoting froom the useless rhetoric of Carl Savich. The same man out to disprove that any proud Alb held belief is somehow wrong or distorted. How Mother Theresa was a vlach, how scanderbeg was a serb, how we massacred jews. Isnt he a writter for the nice and neutral Serbianna.com?


It's a very simple question. In Serbia each worker had to pay 20% for non developed regions,all that money goes to Kosovo,can you count how much many is that?


Yea its unfair, if the distribution of wealth in Yugo was evenly distributed and Belgrade did not receive over 60% of all the revenue. Like how for instance Croatia's dalmatian coast contributed as a vast majority of all the tourist revenue but yet somehow Belgrade managed to see over 60% of it.

I think we should be talking about Hungarians, not Albanians....


Your right.
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  Quote YuGo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 16:31
Originally posted by DayI

Those Serbs deserve again 500 years rule of Ottoman empire, it seems we didnt left there anything else then buildings but next time we will give them humanity, learn to respect nature and other nations btw basis lessions of Islam.

...... I don't think so.

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  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 17:24
Those Serbs deserve again 500 years rule of Ottoman empire

Ouch, thats tough.
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  Quote Mila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:11
Originally posted by YuGo

Originally posted by DayI

Those Serbs deserve again 500 years rule of Ottoman empire, it seems we didnt left there anything else then buildings but next time we will give them humanity, learn to respect nature and other nations btw basis lessions of Islam.

...... I don't think so.



Oh do it, YuGo.

I'll be your Queen and feed you grapes all day.

Because you know that's how life was Serbs back then.

(In other news, Mila has changed her name to Grozna Hadzisavich)
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  Quote cebeci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:24
i think (my opinion) serbia is willing to be a peaceful country both interiorly and exteriorly, but unfortunately they contain dozens of foreign nations in their very minimized motherland. pitty for them. I think serbia will be losing parts of its territories even if nobody wants any more war
history is just a repetation of itself
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  Quote cebeci Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:28
another 500 years wuldn't heal anything my countrymen, except for creating more rivals
history is just a repetation of itself
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  Quote Surbel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:32
Originally posted by Theodore Felix

Lol, nice quoting froom the useless rhetoric of Carl Savich. The same man out to disprove that any proud Alb held belief is somehow wrong or distorted. How Mother Theresa was a vlach, how scanderbeg was a serb, how we massacred jews. Isnt he a writter for the nice and neutral Serbianna.com?


It's a very simple question. In Serbia each worker had to pay 20% for non developed regions,all that money goes to Kosovo,can you count how much many is that?


Yea its unfair, if the distribution of wealth in Yugo was evenly distributed and Belgrade did not receive over 60% of all the revenue. Like how for instance Croatia's dalmatian coast contributed as a vast majority of all the tourist revenue but yet somehow Belgrade managed to see over 60% of it.

I think we should be talking about Hungarians, not Albanians....


Your right.


   It's obvious that you never lived in SFRJ. In all centralized countries money goes to capitol,why wasn't Zagreb the capitol? Didn't Serbs deside that not even Croats or anybody else,comunists did. At the beggining it was agriment,that the capitol city it's gonna chang each two years...all 'comi' special ideas. I can post many quality infos,but to discuss with pearson wich doesn't realise that the tourism wasn't even close developed like it's today in Dalmatia (i know,i live there). Yugo spend more then 60% for army,we lived in fear Soviets are gonna attack us.
 Now Vojvodina....search on web who is Horty,Honvedi...
 I'm not gonna quot Carl Savich any more,but you can read on web by Albanian Dr.Kaplan Resuli........he is not Serbian!
 Remember,CNN and google isn't everything on these world. I'm not saying what cind of politics Bush have these days,but my backyard i know better then you.
 
 

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  Quote Jay. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:33
Originally posted by DayI

Those Serbs deserve again 500 years rule of Ottoman empire, it seems we didnt left there anything else then buildings but next time we will give them humanity, learn to respect nature and other nations btw basis lessions of Islam.



Who the  do you think you are? Keep those comments to yourself if you're going to  say something as flawed as that. *Shakes my head*
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  Quote Theodore Felix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:35
Dr.Kaplan Resuli........he is not Serbian

You mean Kaplan Resuli Burrovich? Lol, no I know his not a Serb. His "Macedonian" who got imprisoned in Albania and came out pissed. Scholar? Of what? For instance he claims that he was imprisoned for being anti-Alb, but he did not study Albanology until he was released from prison. Sorry, his not a scholar. He was actually a teacher in his past. Btw, the man was actually imprisoned for being a homosexual. Which was illegal in Albania at the time.



Anyway, I agree that we should focus on the Hungarian minority...

Edited by Theodore Felix
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  Quote Surbel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:36
 Cebeci,a good spirit is talking out of you.
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  Quote Jay. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:41
Exactly, Surbel. Unlike "DayI", cececi is actaully saying something that would do good for his country.
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  Quote GoldenBlood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 20:34

Surbel you have funny propaganda  

 

Theodore ja ke qi nonen



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