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Mila
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Topic: Serbias Hungarian minority growing more frustrated Posted: 10-Jan-2006 at 20:30 |
I remember a story a few months ago in which the Hungarian government
said they would not rule out military intervention to protect ethnic
Hungarian civilians in Serbia's northern province, Vojvodina.
They threatened to bring Serbia and Montenegro before the United
Nations if appropriate steps weren't taken, but the violence subsided.
Now it's back and the leader in the region is pissed again:
The leader of the Hungarian minority in Vojvodina
Jozef Kasa stated:" The Serb police is not sufficiently active -
again!"
Kasa backed his statement with the information about
a nationalistic incident in the village Torda, municipality of itite,
Vojvodina, which occured at Christmas (celebrated according to the
Gregorian calendar).
"Reasonable people have started to believe that Vojvodina
Hungarians can forget the word "hate crime" but this latest incident is
a new warning that not everything is all right between the minorities
and the majority in Serbia-Montenegro" said Kasa for Hungarian
informative site Vajdasag.ma
According to Vajdasag, in a local club in Torda, a group of youngsters from the nearby village
of Cestereg shouted "This is Serbia" and demanded violently that
instead of playing songs in English and Hungarian, only songs in
Serbian be played.
The police removed them from the club, but they continued with
nationalistic and hate shouting in the village square. Police noted
down this incident only as "disturbance of public peace".
Incidents of this sort, as well as the statements that one of the
leading figures in the Serb Radical Party ultranationalist Tomislav Nikolić gave for the press just harm the
peace between Serbia-Montenegro and all its neighbors.
Nikolic said:"I tell Ratko Mladić and Radovan Karadić not to
give themselves up alive. I tell them that they can not go to Hague,
and if police come to their doors, they should kill themselves."
If
they negotiate, their "reputation" and "reputation" of
Serbia-Montenegro will be ruined.
"The question is why it took them
then 10 years to reach Hague. It is immoral for them to go there
voluntarily, and it is anti-Serbian for them to get there as arrested
men. If they get caught, they should kill themselves."
"Because if they
are caught, if that Serbian myth is destroyed, they know what they have
to do." Nikolić said for Beta, later published AFP.
Nikolić is acting president of SRS (Srpske radikalne stranke) instead
of Vojislav eelj, currently on trial in the Hague at ICTY for war
crimes.
It goes on and on about Bosnia and Croatia, but that's fine - this is about Hungarians this time.
Any Hungarians here have anything from the media in their country to share?
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Surbel
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Posted: 10-Jan-2006 at 23:27 |
Is Vojvodina Another Kosovo?
Carl Savich
May 30, 2005
Introduction: Vojvodina: The Next Kosovo?
There has been alarmist rhetoric about Vojvodina becoming the next
Kosovo. In 2004, there were many manufactured propaganda incidents a la
the Racak Massacre that appeared to presage another Kosovo conflict. Is
there any truth to these claims? What is the history of Vojvodina? And
is there a racist, ethnically-based Greater Hungary movement in
Vojvodina that parallels the Greater Albania ideology in Kosovo? Is
Vojvodina another Kosovo? Is Vojvodina the next Kosovo?
In his article Vojvodina: A Hungarian View, in the July 28, 2004
Balkanalysis, Laszly Zuldi, a Hungarian journalist from Budapest,
presented the Hungarian view on Vojvodina, arguing in alarmist tones of
a time bomb that would create a Hungarian Kosovo. But is this an
accurate assessment of what is going on in Vojvodina? Is the Kosovo
analogy, the paradigm of Vojvodina as the Hungarian Kosovo, an
accurate one?
What happened in Kosovo? Albanian separatists/secessionists launched
a US/NATO-sanctioned terrorist war to create a Greater Albania, an
independent Kosova. This illegal separatist movement was based on US
government and media manufactured propaganda that falsely alleged that
a genocide was occurring in Kosovo. This lie was used to illegally
bypass the UN and all customs and conventions of international law. Is
this what Zuldi is predicting for Vojvodina? If we follow the Kosovo
analogy, Zuldi is predicting a Kosovo-like separatist/secessionist
conflict where Vojvodina would become an independent state like the
proposed Kosova. A manufactured lie would serve as the pretext for
US/EU/NATO humanitarian intervention to create a Greater Hungary.
Like in an independent Kosova cleansed of all Serbs, Roma, and Jews,
all non-Hungarians would arguably be driven out to create a Hungarian
ethnic majority. The new independent state would be called Delvidek.
Is this what Zuldi has in mind? And if so, why should the US or Hungary
be supporting such a genocidal Greater Hungary? Why should anyone
support such a racist and genocidal policy to create a Hungarian
Kosovo?
Zuldi noted that Vojvodina is one of the most multi-ethnic regions
in Europe but he failed to mention that Serbs make up the overwhelming
majority of Vojvodina at 65%. As is typical of the New World Order
democrats and humanitarians, nothing is said about the majority
population and what they think, if they are hostile to US interests. In
a democracy, the majority decides, not a 15% minority, such as the
Hungarian population of Vojvodina. The Hungarian minority doesnt have
the population numbers. In fact, the Hungarian population is declining.
The solution for US policy is to negate the will of the majority
population. This is what US policy did in the Kosovo conflict. The will
of the majority population of Yugoslavia was discounted and ignored.
All that mattered was the will of the Albanian minority population. But
this was cleverly inverted and manipulated and convoluted by US
propaganda. Instead of relying on the will of the majority of
Yugoslavia population, US policy relied on the will of the majority
Albanian population in the province of Kosovo-Metohija. This reduces
democracy to the point of absurdity. It reduces democracy to
meaninglessness. It also demonstrates how phony and hollow democracy
truly is. Democracy is purely a US propaganda construct with no real
world application at all. It is a nice sounding word with absolutely no
practical meaning whatsoever. The Kosovo conflict demonstrated this
obvious fact very clearly.
In Analysis: Vojvodina, the Hungarian Kosovo, UPI, October 11,
2002, Sam Vaknin argued that Vojvodina was indeed the Hungarian
Kosovo. But isnt this just alarmist rhetoric, and inaccurate to boot?
Vaknin focused on the issue of autonomy. But autonomy is a red
herring. Adolf Hitler too supported the autonomy of Vojvodina, as did
the Communist dictator Josip Broz Tito, and then NATO. Why? They all
understood that autonomy would amputate Serbian territory and
ultimately destroy Serbian territorial integrity and allow Western
penetration of the Balkan region. The whole autonomy issue is a
disingenuous game. It is a debate imposed on the Vojvodina issue
arbitrarily and artificially. It is perceived as a way to defeat or
destroy Serbia by other means, by a creeping secessionism or
separatism. Autonomy is just another concept for dismemberment,
secession, separatism, and Balkanization.
Moreover, these analysts conveniently forget that the whole
autonomy nonsense is an atavistic holdover from the
Leninist/Stalinist/Titoist/Communist/Bolshevik era. The concept of
autonomy is Leninistic and Stalinistic, a failed and discredited
Communist way to solve the nationalities problem.
Zuldi noted that Serbs driven out or ethnically cleansed from
Kosovo, the Krajina, Croatia, and Bosnia-Hercegovina, have been forced
to settle in Vojvodina as displaced refugees. He refers to them
euphemistically as unhappy immigrants. Vaknin terms this an
invasion of Vojvodina. But did these Serbs, ethnically cleansed under
the very noses of the international community, make a choice to
settle in Vojvodina? Wasnt the US-sponsored ethnic cleansing of the
Serbian Krajina the reason for the influx or invasion by the unhappy
immigrants? But who is to blame for these refugees? Is the Serbian
government in Belgrade to blame or the US and NATO? Didnt the
US/NATO/EU/UN create the refugee problem in Vojvodina by allowing
Albanian extremists to ethnically cleanse and force out over 200,000
Kosovo Serbs, Jews, Roma, and Sinti? Why are Zuldi and Vaknin blaming
the victims? Why not blame the US/NATO/EU/UN, who are responsible for
the creation of an ethnically pure Kosova?
Zuldi tries unsuccessfully to make it appear like the intolerance is
one-sided, only Serbs attacking Hungarians. But then he mentioned that
in June, 2004, five Hungarian youths in Vojvodina attacked and severely
beat an ethnic Serb in Temerin, only because he was a Serb. It was an
ethnically motivated attack, a racist hate crime by the Hungarian
minority against the Serbian majority population. But, of course, it
was only a retaliatory attack; the Hungarians were merely defending
themselves. Zuldi is a propagandist, constructing very simplistic black
and white scenarios with only the Hungarians as victims. As a fallback
device, he rationalizes and justifies racist attacks by Hungarians
against Serbs as retaliation and defensive in nature. But that is just
a trick of the propagandist too. It is the victimization scenario. Only
Hungarians are ever victims, and only Serbs are ever perpetrators or
aggressors.
The US and Hungary as well as the EU seek to use the Vojvodina issue
to blackmail Serbia and Montenegro. Zuldi wrote that new EU member
Hungary could make life difficult for the Serbs. He is referring to
efforts by Hungary to manipulate and extort and blackmail Serbia and
Montenegro in seeking to join the EU and other European bodies. But
isnt this a reckless and arrogant foreign interference in the affairs
of a sovereign state? Hungarian President Ferenc Madl and Foreign
Minister Laszlo Kovacs even accused the Serbian government of
committing atrocities against the Hungarian minority in 2004.
Zuldi neglects the fascist and Nazi history of the Greater Hungary
ideology and movement. The whole autonomy issue in Vojvodina or
Delvidek has its roots and origins during World War II and the
Holocaust period. In Tanjugs October 28, 2004 article Szegeds 64
Counties Leader Banned from Entering Country, described how Laszlo
Toroczkai, a journalist and youth movement leader from Szeged in
southern Hungary along with Kornel Kiss and Zerg Zagyva, co-organized a
rock concert with Nazi and Greater Hungarian scenography. The concert
was held in Mali Idjos outside of Subotica on October 23. They wore
black T-shirts signed Delvidek and promoted the Greater Hungary
ideology. The reference to 64 counties alludes to the counties that
made up Greater Hungary in the Austro-Hungarian period, reaching 64
counties, or varmegye, castle or fortress counties, in 1876.
Predictably, this neo-Nazi and neo-fascist event was censored and
suppressed in the Western media. There was no analysis by IWPR or
RFE/RL or ICG or the New York Times or Washington Post. This neo-Nazi
resurgence in Vojvodina was slow news to be suppressed and covered-up. more on the link below..
http://news.suc.org/bydate/2005/May_30/11.htm Mila,many stories like this you can find on the web,but is obviesly wich side you choose! I'm not defending crime from Serbian side. But with your approach,i can only came to conclusion that you get paid for all that. Try with...Honvedi,H
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anonimus
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Maju
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 03:48 |
Well, Kosova was a timebomb long before the UCK was formed. I was there
and I have some idea of what was going on in that territory under the
Milosevic and Arkan administration. Kosova was the first Yugoslavian
territory having problems with Serbian revisionism and it was for long
a cage where life for the majority of the people (ethnic Albanians) was
virtually impossible: a daily nightmare. True that there was no massive
ethnic cleansing before the UCK attacks but it's also true that Arkan
death squads acted impunely from the very center of Prishtina, killing
many and that the nonviolent struggle of Kosovars met with the
indiference of both Serbian and international public opinon (though
it's also true that at that time Serbian media were heavily biased and
government controlled and didn't inform much).
Said that, the inccident reported by Mila reminds me to something I saw
with my own eyes while in a Hungarian town of Vojvodina 8whose name I
can't recall) in the winter of 1992. We arrived at the town tavern,
which was our meeting point there, as we were going to interview the
major, a signficative politcal figure among Hungarians of Vojvodina. It
happened that it was the birthday of the owner of the tavern and he was
totally drunk celebrating. While we were waiting and having a good
time, the bar owner, in an impulse took out the compulsory electoral
poster of Slovodan Milosevic. Some time later two tall guys, apparently
ethnic Serbians appeared in the bar and placed it (or a copy, can't
recall) again in the wall, not without some discussion. After they
left, only then, the bar owner, took away the poster and tore it apart
in a rage attack even biting pieces of it. It was quite impressive and
disturbing that two guys could force the placing of a political poster
in a private local. But it was no surprise: our Serbian friends of
Belgrade (a nice city, btw with some very inteligent and daring people)
had us well informed of the pitiful situation under Milosevic's regime
and some of its most striking manifestations.
Said that, I doubt that Vojvodina could be another Kosova, mostly
because Hungarians are a minority and not the majority of the province.
True that they demand the creation of a properly Hungarian province in
a smaller territory but I doubt it will ever happen. Still I hope that
the multicultural and rather progressive Vojvodina province can get its
own police forces and that can help to restore security in the area for
all. There's no need for redneck Serbian fascists to be causing any
more trouble, I believe.
As a sidenote: Vojvodina was the feud assignated to Seselji's militias
in the power arrangements between Milosevic and the Serbian fascists. I
have been told by informed people in Belgrade that such arrangements
implied that the personal bodyguard of Seselji was appointed directly
by Milosevic, so in a graphic way, the Serbian president had always a
gun pointing to the head of Seselji. Nice guys, aren't they?
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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DayI
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 05:45 |
Those Serbs deserve again 500 years rule of Ottoman empire, it seems we didnt left there anything else then buildings but next time we will give them humanity, learn to respect nature and other nations btw basis lessions of Islam.
Edited by DayI
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cg rommel
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 10:25 |
I just hope they leave us, and the Montenegrins that live in Vojvodina out of this....
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Surbel
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 11:09 |
Originally posted by DayI
Those Serbs deserve again 500 years rule of Ottoman empire, it seems we didnt left there anything else then buildings but next time we will give them humanity, learn to respect nature and other nations btw basis lessions of Islam. | You boy deserve a little spanking. Maju notice this:" Serbia was never a fasict country". You are posting about situacion on Albania. Did you know,that TITO was setled after 1945 more then 200.000 Albanians on Kosovo. He's idea was to join the Albania with SFRJ . He suport the comunists in Greece. In 4years 1945-1949 they made souch problems wich they didn't resolve in next 40year's. You didn't ask yourself,why only Serbia had two autonomys and not even one other republic. It's a very simple question. In Serbia each worker had to pay 20% for non developed regions,all that money goes to Kosovo,can you count how much many is that? Each Albanian family had an avrige triple more kid's then other etnicity in SFRJ,if was so bad how is that possible? Some links: -http://www.kosovo.com/testimonies.html -http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1120887/posts
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When your heart is empty,your
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anonimus
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Maju
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 12:54 |
I don't know if all your claims are true. Sadly Serbian historiography
has self-placed on the spot due to false or dubious claims, due to
placing nationalism over truth, so, as a precaution I don't believe
half of what they say to start with (I do that in many other cases,
particularly regarding the Balcans, where one-side-ism is a pandemic).
Anyhow, I was talking about the Milosevician period, not the Titoist
period. I know that in Tito's Yugslavia Kosova had a great autonomy
though apparently not enough for Albanian claims, who demanded to
become a republic like the other ethnies. But I also know that, under
Milosevic, the autonomy was reduced to mere name, that ethnic Albanians
were expelled from their jobs in the administration and even in the
Albanian language TV (which broadcasted with a Montenegrine plaintiff
who knew the language) and that political assasinations happened
regularly. And all that without Albanians firing a single shot. I never
saw children beggars in Belgrade then nor in any other part of Serbia,
despite the economic difficulties of the war period (supermarkets
depleted, black market everywhere, hyperinflation) but there was a
swarm of them in Prishtina.
I also know that Albanian nationalism, curiously enough was born in Kosova and not in Albania proper.
Since the early 90s it was clear that the war of Kosova was a time
bomb: all the process of Yugoslavian disintegration started there and
couldn't finish without affecting Kosova as well. Things like they are,
we like it or not. Guess you can still spit on the tomb of Tito but
what you can't have is a homogeneous nation out of a multiethnic one,
much less in a short period.
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NO GOD, NO MASTER!
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cg rommel
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 13:01 |
I think we should be talking about Hungarians, not Albanians....
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Theodore Felix
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 14:34 |
Lol, nice quoting froom the useless rhetoric of Carl Savich. The same man out to disprove that any proud Alb held belief is somehow wrong or distorted. How Mother Theresa was a vlach, how scanderbeg was a serb, how we massacred jews. Isnt he a writter for the nice and neutral Serbianna.com?
It's a very simple question. In Serbia each worker had to pay 20% for non developed regions,all that money goes to Kosovo,can you count how much many is that? |
Yea its unfair, if the distribution of wealth in Yugo was evenly distributed and Belgrade did not receive over 60% of all the revenue. Like how for instance Croatia's dalmatian coast contributed as a vast majority of all the tourist revenue but yet somehow Belgrade managed to see over 60% of it.
I think we should be talking about Hungarians, not Albanians.... |
Your right.
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YuGo
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 16:31 |
Originally posted by DayI
Those Serbs deserve again 500 years rule of Ottoman empire, it seems we didnt left there anything else then buildings but next time we will give them humanity, learn to respect nature and other nations btw basis lessions of Islam.
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...... I don't think so.
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Theodore Felix
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 17:24 |
Those Serbs deserve again 500 years rule of Ottoman empire
Ouch, thats tough.
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Mila
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:11 |
Originally posted by YuGo
Originally posted by DayI
Those Serbs deserve again 500 years rule of Ottoman empire,
it seems we didnt left there anything else then buildings but next time
we will give them humanity, learn to respect nature and other nations
btw basis lessions of Islam.
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...... I don't think so. |
Oh do it, YuGo.
I'll be your Queen and feed you grapes all day.
Because you know that's how life was Serbs back then.
(In other news, Mila has changed her name to Grozna Hadzisavich)
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cebeci
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:24 |
i think (my opinion) serbia is willing to be a peaceful country both interiorly and exteriorly, but unfortunately they contain dozens of foreign nations in their very minimized motherland. pitty for them. I think serbia will be losing parts of its territories even if nobody wants any more war
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history is just a repetation of itself
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cebeci
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:28 |
another 500 years wuldn't heal anything my countrymen , except for creating more rivals
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history is just a repetation of itself
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Surbel
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:32 |
Originally posted by Theodore Felix
Lol, nice quoting froom the useless rhetoric of Carl Savich. The same man out to disprove that any proud Alb held belief is somehow wrong or distorted. How Mother Theresa was a vlach, how scanderbeg was a serb, how we massacred jews. Isnt he a writter for the nice and neutral Serbianna.com?
It's a very simple question. In Serbia each worker had to pay 20% for non developed regions,all that money goes to Kosovo,can you count how much many is that? |
Yea its unfair, if the distribution of wealth in Yugo was evenly distributed and Belgrade did not receive over 60% of all the revenue. Like how for instance Croatia's dalmatian coast contributed as a vast majority of all the tourist revenue but yet somehow Belgrade managed to see over 60% of it.
I think we should be talking about Hungarians, not Albanians.... |
Your right. |
It's obvious that you never lived in SFRJ. In all centralized countries money goes to capitol,why wasn't Zagreb the capitol? Didn't Serbs deside that not even Croats or anybody else,comunists did. At the beggining it was agriment,that the capitol city it's gonna chang each two years...all 'comi' special ideas. I can post many quality infos,but to discuss with pearson wich doesn't realise that the tourism wasn't even close developed like it's today in Dalmatia (i know,i live there). Yugo spend more then 60% for army,we lived in fear Soviets are gonna attack us. Now Vojvodina....search on web who is Horty,Honvedi... I'm not gonna quot Carl Savich any more,but you can read on web by Albanian Dr.Kaplan Resuli........he is not Serbian! Remember,CNN and google isn't everything on these world. I'm not saying what cind of politics Bush have these days,but my backyard i know better then you.
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anonimus
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Jay.
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:33 |
Originally posted by DayI
Those Serbs deserve again 500 years rule of Ottoman empire, it seems we didnt left there anything else then buildings but next time we will give them humanity, learn to respect nature and other nations btw basis lessions of Islam. | Who the do you think you are? Keep those comments to yourself if you're going to say something as flawed as that. *Shakes my head*
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Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava
Only Unity Can Save the Serb
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Theodore Felix
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:35 |
Dr.Kaplan Resuli........he is not Serbian
You mean Kaplan Resuli Burrovich? Lol, no I know his not a Serb. His "Macedonian" who got imprisoned in Albania and came out pissed. Scholar? Of what? For instance he claims that he was imprisoned for being anti-Alb, but he did not study Albanology until he was released from prison. Sorry, his not a scholar. He was actually a teacher in his past. Btw, the man was actually imprisoned for being a homosexual. Which was illegal in Albania at the time.
Anyway, I agree that we should focus on the Hungarian minority...
Edited by Theodore Felix
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Surbel
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:36 |
Cebeci,a good spirit is talking out of you.
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anonimus
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Jay.
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 18:41 |
Exactly, Surbel. Unlike "DayI", cececi is actaully saying something that would do good for his country.
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Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava
Only Unity Can Save the Serb
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GoldenBlood
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Posted: 11-Jan-2006 at 20:34 |
Surbel you have funny propaganda
Theodore ja ke qi nonen
Edited by GoldenBlood
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