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Israel’s Big Crime!

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Cyrus Shahmiri View Drop Down
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Israel’s Big Crime!
    Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 03:40
They are forcing poor Jews to leave their homes in Gaza Strip, it is really sad! but I think their worse crime is that they are in fact giving more training camps to Palestinain terrorist groups such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades!
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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 04:12

are you serious about poor jews?

 

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 04:38

huh ? !!

Palistinian Terrorests and poor jews? !!

intersting, i must ask Cyrus What do you think is the "Ideal" Solution for the Palistian/Israeli Conflict?

and what do you think of Israel as a State formed in 1948?

 

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 05:18

intersting, i must ask Cyrus What do you think is the "Ideal" Solution for the Palistian/Israeli Conflict?

The problem won't be solved unless all Palestinain terrorist groups are annihilated.

and what do you think of Israel as a State formed in 1948?

This is a very legal state, more than UAE which was fomed in 1971!

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  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 05:20

 

these what you call "terroest groups" are supported by the majority of Palistinians and they are considered an occupation  resistance groups,

so i guess your ideal solution will be giving Israel  " Legal state " full control. by building settelments where ever they want and tread the rest of the people as secound class,

 

 

 

more legal than UAE?

can you explain that more if you dont mind?

 



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  Quote Spartakus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 05:30
In a conflict,there are always 2.You cannot blame only the Palestinians.You must also blame the Israelis.They are not angels themselves.
"There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. "
--- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996)
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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 05:40
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

The problem won't be solved unless all Palestinain terrorist groups are annihilated.


It might contribute to the solution of the problem in Palestine, if the Israeli terror group, commonly refered to as the "Israeli army" would be dissolved or at least stopped its terrorist actions against the Palestinian population. The Israeli state was formed with the help of a terror group,the "Haganah" that employed similar tactics as the Palestinian militant groups do now, and the "Haganah" evolved into the Israeli army which until today continues the proud traditions of its predecessor.

If anybody could tell me what the moral difference is between the murder of innnocent Israeli children by suicide bombers and the murder of innocent Palestinian children by Israeli Army helicopter gunships, I would be grateful.

Edited by Komnenos
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  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 05:44
maybe its time, for the Turks, to brush off the terrorists out of our lands that were in the Ottoman empire hahaha phah..

I really loved it when the isreali minister was argueing with the palestinian on the 'land's' our minister(tukish) say's "what lands are you talking about? the state/and lands that was ours until it was stolen from us?, our lands?" the other ministers stop, and looked at him with blank eyes..he continues 'now we can begin talks'

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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 05:59

It's beyond me, how can every discussion, end up talking about the Turks! Even here, where people talk on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Plus, everytime Armenian genocide comes up, the argument is: "It wasn't the fault of Turkey but of the Ottoman Empire". When it comes to Ottoman heritage in the region, it autometically becomes "Turkish"

Anyway, I also feel that the real terrorist is the Israeli army and the politicians who command it to do such acrocities.

The basis of a democratic state is liberty. Aristotle, Politics

Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 07:27

Poor Jews? HAHAHAHAHA.

Israel is breaking international law when it allows settlements to be built on the occupied territory of another people. I hope the Jews in the West bank suffer the same fate as those of the Gaza strip.

Occupation leads to terrorism, Komnenos, there is no difference between a child getting killed by a tank, helicopter gunship or a suicide bomb.

The number of Palestinian civilians killed by the IDF is over three times higher than the number of Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian militants.

Israel is not too disimilar under the skin from Nazi Germany.

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 08:22

these what you call "terroest groups" are supported by the majority of Palistinians and they are considered an occupation  resistance groups

so what I said can be expanded to the majority of Palistinians, if they all want to blow up buses of schoolchildren!  

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  Quote Mortaza Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 08:30

cyprus what you can be said to the majority of jews? or what can you said expand majority of USA, brits? or other races?Or killing woman in Iran can be aslo expanded majority of persians? You love to kill young woman?  If I am not wrong you choose a conservative goverment.

 

when you are expanding your words, be careful, or you will  claim half of the world as guilty.

 

 

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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 08:50

If anybody could tell me what the moral difference is between the murder of innnocent Israeli children by suicide bombers and the murder of innocent Palestinian children by Israeli Army helicopter gunships, I would be grateful.

The first one is killed by hate but the second one is killed by accident!

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  Quote Perseas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 08:54

From Encyclopedia of Orient

http://i-cias.com/e.o/israel_5.htm

1845: The number of Jews in Palestine is about 12,000.
1897: The
Zionist movement is started in Basel, Switzerland. Zionism's goal was to establish "for the Jewish people a home in Palestine secured by public law".
1917 November 2:
The Balfour declaration, a letter by the foreign secretary Arthur James Balfour to the English Zionist leader lord Rothschild, gives support to the Zionist case.
1918-39: The Jews organize their own social and political institutions, which exercise much control over their own population.
Hebrew language is fostered, and the Hebrew University is founded in Jerusalem.
1922: The League of Nations adopt the Balfour declaration, and leaves Britain in charge of Palestine, and in assisting the Jews in "reconstituting their national home in that country". Jews represent 11% of the population in Palestine with their 85,000, compared to the 670,000 Palestinians.
1930s: Large influx of Jews, frightened by persecution in Germany. New towns and villages were created, hundreds of kibbutzes founded.
1931: 175,000 Jews and 860,000 Arabs live in Palestine (17%).
1936:
Arab revolts against the constant Jewish immigration, but there was no suppression by the British forces until 1939. 385,000 Jews and 980,000 Arabs live in Palestine (28%) by now.
1937: Great Britain suggests that Palestine should be divided into a Jewish and an Arab state.
1939: The British impose a stop on the Jewish immigration. AT this time 450,000 Jews and 1,060,000 Arabs live in Palestine (30%)
1945: With the ending of World War II, and the horrors of holocaust were laid open, Zionist demands on self-government increased. From now on, illegal immigration to Palestine was organized.
1947: UN takes control over Palestine.
November 29: A UN plan for dividing Palestine into two countries, one Jewish and one Arab, with Jerusalem as international zone, is presented. This plan was immediately met by violent protest from the Arabs. 590,000 Jews and 1,320,000 Arabs live in Palestine (31%).
1948 May 14: The new Jewish state, State of Israel, is proclaimed by the Jewish Provisional State Council. Chaim Weizmann becomes president, and the Zionist leader
David Ben-Gurion the new prime minister. The secret Jewish army, Haganah, is declared as the new army of Israel.
May 15:
Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq join the Arab guerillas in fight against the Jews.
1948-51: Around 700,000 Jews immigrate to Israel.
1949 February 24: Peace in the
Middle East. Egypt declares that the agreement on cease fire, is not an acceptance of the state of Israel. The Israeli territory has increased from the 15,500 km that the UN-resolution of 1947 gave them, to 20,700 km. Gaza Strip becomes Egyptian, and the West Bank Jordanian. There had been 800,000 Arabs living in the area that now became Israel, and only 170,000 had been able to stay. The remaining hundreds of thousands, moved into refugee camps in neighboring countries.

 

From the numbers above its obvious that by the time of the 1948 UN Resolution of Partition,  Jews were the minority while Arabs were the majority of population in Palestine. I find the plan was unfair for Arabs since i believe nobody would have accepted a plan which gives 55% of the land to the minority population thus Arabs rejected the partition. However UN had no right to partition a country against the will of the majority.

A mathematician is a person who thinks that if there are supposed to be three people in a room, but five come out, then two more must enter the room in order for it to be empty.
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  Quote baracuda Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 09:12
Originally posted by Yiannis

It's beyond me, how can every discussion, end up talking about the Turks! Even here, where people talk on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict


Plus, everytime Armenian genocide comes up, the argument is: "It wasn't the fault of Turkey but of the Ottoman Empire". When it comes to Ottoman heritage in the region, it autometically becomes "Turkish"


Anyway, I also feel that the real terrorist is the Israeli army and the politicians who command it to do such acrocities.



Right, what sort of a remark is that?; firstly to a turk, the armenian genocide never existed, it was trialed, and the ottomans found not guilty, then the so be lovers of minorities re-wrote 'reality' to make things appear the opposite, and now this so be history, is in all EU history books, and used in the 'news' by armenians for lobbying against turks, propaganda.. just propaganda for minor people who cant do anything better.

Secondly the 'state' of Isreal as you call it, was ottoman soil from 1517 till 1918, so if we need preach on something, then we can say it is our land.

In late Arafats' own words "We are paying very dearly for the betrayal we have done"
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 09:29

Jews escape Nazi Germany to treat the Palestinians in every way that the Nazis treated them, perhaps minues the gas chambers - the West Bank and Gaza strip are like ghetto prisons.

You know, if some state sponsored man came and had my house demolished (or that of my friends, family or countrymen) and built his on top of it and used some ancient book to justify his actions, I would be pretty hateful towards him and his state, irregardless of whether he was Jew, Muslim, Christian et al, I would hate him.

 

 

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  Quote Seko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 09:37
Hopefully those Palestinians in the Gaza strip will enjoy a better quality of life now. The Israeli pullout is real. Hope the good faith measure is not a ruse.
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  Quote Yiannis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 10:21

Israel had no benefit from protecting 9000 settlers in the middle of 1,500,000 Palestinians and on land that is not its own. If it would deside to include Gaza into its borders, then it would have to include the palestinian as Israeli citizens as well. Instead it will use Gaza as ghetto for the Palestinians (remember Soveto?)

Sharon is not a pacifist or a humanist. Disengagement from West bank will never happen, instead the illegal settlements will be expanded at the expence of palestinian/Arab land.

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  Quote Komnenos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 10:24
Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri

The first one is killed by hate but the second one is killed by accident!



Any bombing of a house in residential area will kill civilians, men, women and children, that's were they usually live. I'm sure even the Israelis could work that out.
With the same argument you could excuse a suicide bomber on a bus:
"Sorry mate, the bus was the real target, that the passengers were killed was just an accident."



Edited by Komnenos
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  Quote Cyrus Shahmiri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Aug-2005 at 11:40

Who are these Palestianins that we are talking about? There is no country called "Palestine", so why do we call these Arabs as Palestinains?

We know many things about Parthia and Parthian language, religion, ... but no one in Iran claims to be a Parthian, it is really interesting these Arabs claim to be Palestinan just because a people with this name lived there more than 3,000 years ago, however, according to Encyclopaedia Britannica, there are no documents in the Palestinain language, which was probably replaced by Canaanite, Aramaic, and, later, Greek. Nor is much known of the Palestinain religion ...
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