are you serious about poor jews?

huh ? !!

Palistinian Terrorests and poor jews? !!

intersting, i must ask Cyrus What do you think is the "Ideal" Solution for the Palistian/Israeli Conflict?

and what do you think of Israel as a State formed in 1948?

these what you call "terroest groups" are supported by the majority of Palistinians and they are considered an occupation  resistance groups,

so i guess your ideal solution will be giving Israel  " Legal state " full control. by building settelments where ever they want and tread the rest of the people as secound class,

more legal than UAE?

can you explain that more if you dont mind?

It's beyond me, how can every discussion, end up talking about the Turks! Even here, where people talk on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict

Plus, everytime Armenian genocide comes up, the argument is: "It wasn't the fault of Turkey but of the Ottoman Empire". When it comes to Ottoman heritage in the region, it autometically becomes "Turkish"

Anyway, I also feel that the real terrorist is the Israeli army and the politicians who command it to do such acrocities.

Poor Jews? HAHAHAHAHA.

Israel is breaking international law when it allows settlements to be built on the occupied territory of another people. I hope the Jews in the West bank suffer the same fate as those of the Gaza strip.

Occupation leads to terrorism, Komnenos, there is no difference between a child getting killed by a tank, helicopter gunship or a suicide bomb.

The number of Palestinian civilians killed by the IDF is over three times higher than the number of Israeli civilians killed by Palestinian militants.

Israel is not too disimilar under the skin from Nazi Germany.

so what I said can be expanded to the majority of Palistinians, if they all want to blow up buses of schoolchildren!  

cyprus what you can be said to the majority of jews? or what can you said expand majority of USA, brits? or other races?Or killing woman in Iran can be aslo expanded majority of persians? You love to kill young woman?  If I am not wrong you choose a conservative goverment.

when you are expanding your words, be careful, or you will  claim half of the world as guilty.

The first one is killed by hate but the second one is killed by accident!

From Encyclopedia of Orient

http://i-cias.com/e.o/israel_5.htm - http://i-cias.com/e.o/israel_5.htm

1845: The number of http://i-cias.com/e.o/jew.htm - Jews in http://i-cias.com/e.o/palestin.htm - Palestine is about 12,000.
1897: The http://i-cias.com/e.o/zionism.htm - Zionist movement is started in Basel, Switzerland. Zionism's goal was to establish "for the Jewish people a home in Palestine secured by public law".
1917 November 2: http://i-cias.com/e.o/balfour_d.htm - The Balfour declaration , a letter by the foreign secretary Arthur James Balfour to the English Zionist leader lord Rothschild, gives support to the Zionist case.
1918-39: The Jews organize their own social and political institutions, which exercise much control over their own population. http://i-cias.com/e.o/hebrew.htm - Hebrew language is fostered, and the Hebrew University is founded in http://i-cias.com/e.o/jerusalem.htm - Jerusalem .
1922: The League of Nations adopt the Balfour declaration, and leaves Britain in charge of Palestine, and in assisting the Jews in "reconstituting their national home in that country". Jews represent 11% of the population in Palestine with their 85,000, compared to the 670,000 Palestinians.
1930s: Large influx of Jews, frightened by persecution in Germany. New towns and villages were created, hundreds of kibbutzes founded.
1931: 175,000 Jews and 860,000 Arabs live in Palestine (17%).
1936: http://i-cias.com/e.o/arabs.htm - Arab revolts against the constant Jewish immigration, but there was no suppression by the British forces until 1939. 385,000 Jews and 980,000 Arabs live in Palestine (28%) by now.
1937: Great Britain suggests that Palestine should be divided into a Jewish and an Arab state.
1939: The British impose a stop on the Jewish immigration. AT this time 450,000 Jews and 1,060,000 Arabs live in Palestine (30%)
1945: With the ending of World War II, and the horrors of holocaust were laid open, Zionist demands on self-government increased. From now on, illegal immigration to Palestine was organized.
1947: UN takes control over Palestine.
— November 29: A UN plan for dividing Palestine into two countries, one Jewish and one Arab, with Jerusalem as international zone, is presented. This plan was immediately met by violent protest from the Arabs. 590,000 Jews and 1,320,000 Arabs live in Palestine (31%).
1948 May 14: The new Jewish state, State of Israel, is proclaimed by the Jewish Provisional State Council. Chaim Weizmann becomes president, and the Zionist leader http://i-cias.com/e.o/ben-gurion.htm - David Ben-Gurion the new prime minister. The secret Jewish army, http://i-cias.com/e.o/haganah.htm - Haganah , is declared as the new army of Israel.
— May 15: http://i-cias.com/e.o/egypt.htm - Egypt , Transjordan, http://i-cias.com/e.o/syria.htm - Syria , http://i-cias.com/e.o/lebanon.htm - Lebanon and http://i-cias.com/e.o/iraq.htm - Iraq join the Arab guerillas in fight against the Jews.
1948-51: Around 700,000 Jews immigrate to Israel.
1949 February 24: Peace in the http://i-cias.com/e.o/middle_east.htm - Middle East . Egypt declares that the agreement on cease fire, is not an acceptance of the state of Israel. The Israeli territory has increased from the 15,500 km² that the UN-resolution of 1947 gave them, to 20,700 km². http://i-cias.com/e.o/gazastrp.htm - Gaza Strip becomes Egyptian, and the http://i-cias.com/e.o/westbank.htm - West Bank Jordanian. There had been 800,000 Arabs living in the area that now became Israel, and only 170,000 had been able to stay. The remaining hundreds of thousands, moved into refugee camps in neighboring countries.

From the numbers above its obvious that by the time of the 1948 UN Resolution of Partition,  Jews were the minority while Arabs were the majority of population in Palestine. I find the plan was unfair for Arabs since i believe nobody would have accepted a plan which gives 55% of the land to the minority population thus Arabs rejected the partition. However UN had no right to partition a country against the will of the majority.

Jews escape Nazi Germany to treat the Palestinians in every way that the Nazis treated them, perhaps minues the gas chambers - the West Bank and Gaza strip are like ghetto prisons.

You know, if some state sponsored man came and had my house demolished (or that of my friends, family or countrymen) and built his on top of it and used some ancient book to justify his actions, I would be pretty hateful towards him and his state, irregardless of whether he was Jew, Muslim, Christian et al, I would hate him.

Israel had no benefit from protecting 9000 settlers in the middle of 1,500,000 Palestinians and on land that is not its own. If it would deside to include Gaza into its borders, then it would have to include the palestinian as Israeli citizens as well. Instead it will use Gaza as ghetto for the Palestinians (remember Soveto?)

Sharon is not a pacifist or a humanist. Disengagement from West bank will never happen, instead the illegal settlements will be expanded at the expence of palestinian/Arab land.

Who are these Palestianins that we are talking about? There is no country called "Palestine", so why do we call these Arabs as Palestinains?

Israel is pulling out of the Gaza Strip where 1.5 million Palestinians live, so that it could cement its' rule in Jerusalem and West Bank. New houses are being built (for some of those relocated Israelis) in the middle of Jerusalem's Old City's Arab quarter...

And what about those Israeli settlers who killed 4 Palestinians during the pullout?

Baracuda the Armenian Genocide has been debated a lot of times here, and in the end, the only argument Turks could find is that the Ottoman Empire commited the crime, and not modern-day Turkey.

Omg... Palestina is recongnised by the hole world except Israel as a COUNTRY!!!

Im just shocked by youre posts, only a Jew can say such things lol but true... 

I whas of plan to debate about yours country name but forget about it

Unfortunately, Jerusalem has become a city for all those Ultra-religious Jews, Muslims, and Christians.

 It looks like at least in mind this is true.

 Cyrus arent you much pro-jews? Arabs are also human, and their country occupied and occupiers are not so innocent guys.

Then the rule must also be true for other nations, no country such as Syria or Britain exists - the people of Southern England were only referred to as Britons by the Romans, yet the inhabitants of those isles today call themselves British when they clearly cannot be... 

Sorry but that Zionist propaganda does not work for me.

The people of Scotland and Wales sometimes will refer to themselves that way, as a Scottish Brit or a welsh Brit.

well yea you can expand that to the majority of Palistinians, But not all of them want to blow up buses of schoolchildern

thats littel shalow thinking, the majority of Palistians support the something Called "" OCCUPATION RISSISTANCE""  those Groups were created After the Israeli Occupation.

also you didnt tell me how Israel is more Legal than UAE?

yea Accident full of love when shooting "school childern" on the Head.

lol

ok Cyrus  you are saying those Arabs are not the original Palestinans and they dont have any right to live in this land  right?

then why you just tell us what should be done to these Pathatic Arabs who claim that they are Palestinians ?

if you dont mind please just give us your totall conclusion about the situation and after the Terrorests are destroyed what should be done to the rest of the remaining of the population "who supported " the late terrorests its very  intersting  to know such facts from you.

Let me try to sum it up. There is a popular belief among others, that people who have no state cant form a 'legal' army and therefore are declared terrorists. In this category of course we have the Palestinians. Its more than obvious that in a hypothetically open warfare of Palestinians against Israelis, Israely army would obviously win more than easy. This leads the palestinians not to have the viable option of open warfare but prefering alternative available actions hence engage in a secret war.

Now if the deal is to declare terrorism the secret warfare whereas open warfare, in which far more civilians will undoubtedly die and this to be seen as "acceptable war", this leads to the logical conclusion that only those with a certain economic, military and political power have the right to engage in warfare. Personally I see no moral distinction between openly bombing villages and secretly bombing nightclubs.

Surely there are large groups of people in the world who are denied of their rightful political power and rights. To say that the groups who kill innocent civilians in attempts to reclaim their rightful political power are somehow worse than those who have all the political power, but still kill innocent civilians, is simply unaceptable.

Here i would like to add that terrorism in any form is unjustifiable but people should comprehend that suicide bombing, as a tactic, is different than terrorism. If suicide bombing is used against perpetrators - in our case, occupiers- then its not terrorism but in case of using suicide bombing against innocent civilians then it is terrorism.

The so-called war against terrorism of Israelis involves murdering of civilians in order to retain their political power. From the other hand, the Palestinians, from whom the Israeli's have taken their political power, murder civilians in an attempt to reclaim the power which was stolen from them. There is no moral difference i can see here.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri They are forcing poor Jews to leave their homes in Gaza Strip, it is really sad! but I think their worse crime is that they are in fact giving more training camps to Palestinain terrorist groups such as Hamas, Islamic Jihad and the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades!

Cyrus jaan, were you being sarcastic? or are you really brain washed by the propaganda machine of american and western media?

The only terrorist groups are zionists, Zionists started terrorising the land, before world war 2, the jewish zionist movement was considered terrorism, but all that changed after the war and the discovery of the haulocost.

Palestinians are the great descendents of the ancient hebrews, other people who had settled the land. believe it or not. how in the world did white jews from europe with no genetic connection to the land say "palestine is a jewish homeland"??? isnt that religious extremism, isn't that fanatism? isn't that stupid? how can someone be part of a race just being part of a religion? it's like saying all muslims are arabs!!! or saying all budhisst are chinese.

Judaism is not a race, but a religion, zionist make up stupid sh*t like they were part of the "lost tribe" of israel. ahhaha. even in india, a group of population converted to judaism and said they were a lost tribe of israelates. zionism is an evil idealogy

and idealogy combined with religous extremism and racism. it is a political movement.

1875-1877: Russian pogroms; first Zionist aliya (migration) to Palestine.  They were called the "lovers of zion".

before that, palestinians (arabs, hebrews (yishuv yahud), muslims, jews, christians) lived together in peace and harmony. which then was part of the Ottoman empire. Everything changed with the coming of the zionists of europe.

they started terrorising the population, thus increasing local tensions against their own jews, therfore the native jewish people started rallying around the zionists, this terrorism continued untill 1948. which created an even worse kind of terrorism: STATE terrorism.

i say palestinians are doing what we all would do.

Maybe you prefered they were called Israelis and that Israel wouldn't be anymore an racist Jew entity? That's precisely what Palestinians have asked for all the time before Oslo: that Israel should disapear and a non-religious non-ethnic state be created in Palestine... of course they didn't call it Israel.

Btw, Palestine (the PLO before the PNA now) is recognized by the UN. After all it was the UN who blessed the partition of Palestine to give much more than their share to the Zionist cause.

Maybe he is just not brain washed byh the propaganda machine of al jazeer or all those pro islam anti western/christian propaganda. They all can be equally as bad.

REPORT FROM JENIN REFUGEE CAMP, WEST BANK: Jenin, Like Qibya in 1953, Is Another Massacre by Ariel Sharon http://www.iacenter.org/jenin.htm - http://www.iacenter.org/jenin.htm

some really disturbing images of Israeli crime, i warn you its realy realy disturbing: http://aztlan.net/jeninmassacre.htm - http://aztlan.net/jeninmassacre.htm

Occupation of Jenin: http://www.socialismtoday.org/65/Mideast.html - http://www.socialismtoday.org/65/Mideast.html

A Timeline of the Zionist Program: http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2005%20Opinion%20Editorials/March/10%20o/A%20Timeline%20of%20the%20Zionist%20Program%20By%20Joachim%20Martillo.htm - http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2005%20Opini on%20Editorials/March/10%20o/A%20Timeline%20of%20the%20Zioni st%20Program%20By%20Joachim%20Martillo.htm

Human Rights Watch report on JENIN: http://hrw.org/reports/2002/israel3/ - http://hrw.org/reports/2002/israel3/

Please don't play with words, you know yourself those are outwardly residential areas but in fact terrorist camps, these ignoble Palestian terrorists use women and children as human shields!

well, I think If UAE occupy some Iranian land, and exile Iranian population, and puts their population at that land, UAE will be more legal.

Did I miss something

its not about "dare" or anything, AS i said they support the occupation resistance. any occupation to others land will face some type of resistance, is this hard to understand !! they occupied those lands and the people on those land formed a resistance groups,

may be when your dream will come true and US army occupied Iran you will see or know what is Occupation resistance and what shapes they can be in, and off course you'll call them terrorists.

and what about the Israelis? are they peace keepers or what?

anyway i dont see that you commeted on any of the earlier posts about Israeli Army is also considered Terrorists group. more organised somehow

yes as you said Claims some Islands which are currently under iranian Occupation opps "control" and add to that Claims them peacefully.

still even if UAE do claim those Islands i dont see how Israel is more Legal than UAE !!

and is it More legal when it is Building Illegal Sattelments in the West Bank and Gaza strip?

Those sattelments are considered Illegal not by me but by the UN while UAE claim to those islands are not Considered Illegal by the UN.

and wasnt that why you made this thread for? the Poor jew are forced to leave their homes ( which again the UN consider Illegal homes ) and that is Isael's Big Crime !!

how can it be a Crime !! what rights they got to be in others peoples land and build sattelments in it?

the Crime is that these lands will be Terrorest camps?!!

hmmmm  lets see, they occupied these lands for more than 50 years and what you call Terrorest are increacing instead of decreasing !! hmmm no wait wait these terrorest actully formed BECAUSE of the occupation,

anyway you shouldn't worry much since Israel is building a wall in all its borders with Gaza and the West bank.

lets Israel be safe and to hell to everybody else.

can't just all form one democratic country not based on religion, everybody will have freedom to practice their own religion and just live together in peace ? opps wait wait again  that was the Arabic League proposal which the Israeli refused.

Sick.

End of discussion, you are right, those are all occupied Arab lands and islands and these Iranians and Israelites have occupied them for thousands years, the only legal states are Arab states and all other ones are illegal, do you know how many Palestians, Syrians, Algerians and other Arab brothers were martyrized in the Saddam's army for obtaining liberty of occupied Khuzistan, sorry Arabistan, during Iran-Iraq eight-year war? One day finally all occupied lands of Arabs will be liberated and all non-Arab infidels who live there will be killed! Allah is Great!

Most modern Israelis are not Israelites and they have not lived on those lands for thousands of years (more like 50).  Real Israelites are Sephardic Jews and [Yes] Arabised "Palestinians" -  The rest of the Jews are Ashkenazim and if they want to claim their original homeland then they will have to settle in the Northern Caucasus/Southern Russia, the area their Khazar ancestors occupied.

They were Turkic Jews, the fact is that their empire was ruled by Jewish elites and when http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Vladimir - Vladimir Svyatoslavich  destroyed it they fled to Europe, they are the original source of Jews in Europe, the same Jews that are claiming Palestine as their 'promised' land.

I saw this program on TV here not long ago, this middle class, well-to-do Jewish family who owned a nice house in England (and they looked completely English) had recently got a settlement home on the cheap - The Israeli governemnt practically gives them away to non-Israeli Jews with a deliberate agenda against the Palestinians. Anyway, the woman claimed it was her 'divine' right to claim any pieve of that land and had nothing but racist contempt for the Palestinians.

I actually found the images of the settlers being dragged away kicking and screaming like little babies quite funny.  The thing that bothers them most is actually giving the Palestinians any continuous stretch of land - they will most likely be resettled in the West bank anyway.

Didnt the iranians came from europe years BC? sorry i can be wrong also i didnt know that, thanks in advance.

Also, khazars are of etnic Turkic but from religion Jewish, also im not a Arab when i believe in Islam.

You can be right in youre previous posts, but this is nonsens man

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri You are welcome for my nonsense words!

ow ow, dont give up so quickly.

I said:

Didnt the iranians came from europe x years BC? Or is it like what you said? Or are those both correct (homeland as central asia and europe?) Pfff im confused.

ok end of discussion as you wish i dont mind.

and iam right , in my posts? ok thank you.

ok now the rest of your post is not my words and i didnt say that and i dont  know from where you got that from and dont know if that even relevant to my posts. may be you misunderstood me i was talking about Israel Occuping Gaza strip if that help. and Arab league gave a proposal about a democratic country in that region consist of all the people live in that land to have equal rights in all ways religion included.

but anyway i posted my opinion and idea about this thread and dont think there is much i would add to it.

okay those 3 islands are iranian and will always be iranian. besides, UAE should be greatful that it is even a country, it should greatfull that iran didnt annex all of it. besides Bahrain was an iranian province, stolen by british.

you arabs are pushing your luck. you should be thankful that iranians support palestinians, and all we get from your pothetic wahabbi rulers is hatred and anti-iranian propaganda all supported by your american overlords. get real. Iran can change its policy and side with israel and america easily, and will leave you arabs begging for allies, the palestine will be no more but history. you should be really thankful to persians specially. all your leaders are yes-men for america.

israel/palestine is always on SNAFU mode .they both have imagined/real  pasts and harbour fear/hatred towards other.maybe it is justified .who know.....?

 the contemptible suicide bombings against the civilians by the jihadists made me turn pro israel.the palestininas have legimate grivences but killing children will not make the goal of independent palestine closer.

ps:israel should also control its army and courtmartial those who deliberately target civies.

thats need new thread to discuss since your statments has lots of errors

but anyway just to remind you  this thread is Not about UAE and those tiny three islands and Irans supports or whatever in that regon.

this thread is about poor jews forced to leave their homes and by that making Gaza a Terrorest camp to Bomb school buses full of childern.

I think people need to look at maps of what Israel was originally allocated and what Historic Palestine actually is.

Israel was allocated the Negev desert because it was mostly Jewish, that accounts for a large land mass handed over, as well as the coast line. Also, settlements built by the Israeli’s attracted Arab neighbors, this also accounts for the large amount of Arabs that were in Israel when it became independent. Israeli settlers founded colonies away from the Palestinians.

Historic Palestine encompasses all of Jordan as well as modern day Israel.

If Israel hadn’t taken that land in 1967 then the Palestinians would be fighting the Egyptians and Jordanians today.

Who has screwed over the Palestinians more than anybody? Other Arabs have. Who started the war in 1948? Palestinian guerillas, mixed with Arab powers competing with each other for land. The fact is, the Jordanians, Egyptians took the Palestinian lands and destroyed any hope for a Palestinian state in 1948 (plus the Palestinians did them selves in). If the Arabs weren’t so obsessed with destroying Israel in that region then there would be peace and Israel would own less land than it owns today.

Overall, Arabic peoples live from north Africa down the Arabian peninsula, the Jewish population needs a homeland because if history has taught us anything it is that everybody hates Jews.

The Jews have lived in Palestine for thousand’s of years, the Arabs took that land, so why isn’t it ok for the Jews to retake their land?

This is nonsense: Jewish settlement has only been (still is) strong in the coastal strip around Tel Aviv and some pockets in the interior (mostly around Jerusalem. Negev was allocated to Israel capriciously and probably with very bad intentions of disrupting Arab unity. But this can apply also to most of Galilea as well.

Another biased statement. As I posted above, the Treaty of Versailles (1919) alotted Palestine+Jordan under the name of Palestine as British Mandate of Palestine, but this sitaution was reformed in 1922 when the League of Nations agreed to separate Transjordan from Palestine, so Plaestines was from 1922 to 1948 only what today we know as such (including all Israel except the disputed Golan highlands). Jordan (Transjordan) only belonged to Palestine for 3 years, mostly on paper.

Besides, the historical name of Palestine before WW-II was imprecise and given to an undefined region around Jerusalem that didn't include the Negev desert.

Not more than they hate Mormons or Gipsies/Roma, still nobody claims that they should have a homeland in Utah or Rajastan... Serious people think that the problems of those ethnicities should be solved through constructive integration (not simple and plain assimlation).

Besides, if the Holocaust would be the only reason for the Zionist entity, they should have created it in Bavaria, not in Palestine. Or, as Soviets promoted, in Eastern Siberia.

Well, this is arguable. But I would like to see the same statements when Israel bombs indiscriminately refugee camps. Maybe nobody cares because there are no Pizza Huts in Gaza.

I think the enmity between Arab Muslims and Jews goes back to 627 AD when, according to Islamic sources, Muhammad the prophet ordred to kill between 600 and 900 of the captive men of two Jewish villages in one day, and divided the surviving Jewish women and children amongst Muslims!

I think the emnity between Palestinians and Jews goes back to 614 when the Jews massacred 60-90,000 Christian Palestinians after the the Jews were given some power by the conquering Persians.  Palestinain Christians today are as much at odds with Israel as Moslem Palestinians are.

http://www.ukar.org/shamir08.html - http://www.ukar.org/shamir08.html

wow interesting reading on this page:

No Israel existed then, so that is impossible, Israel only existed for 70 years in antiquity and less than sixty in modern times. 

And we do know from where, from the land, "Judea" which we conquered from the Christian Byzantine Empire. 

These massacres are recorded in history, it is ridiculous to rubbish them, they were as real as the holocaust.   

Maybe we should share those lands again, like in the good old days...

Anyway, today, Turkey doesnt occupy any Arabic lands. Only Urfa and Siirt have major Arabic populations.

BTW, Khazars were Turks, their rulers were also Turks who prefered Jewish religion by their own will. They arent Hebrews.

So according to this logic, we have two alternatives;

1.If modern Israelis are descendent from Khazars, they originate from Turks. So Turkey can claim rights on Jarusalem, then unite Jarusalem and all holy lands to Turkey. And finally, we will have Israel of Turan(j/k)!!

2. Since Khazars have been assimilated in the Russo-Ukrainian (ex Soviet) society, it would change into Israel SSR, and Salemgrad for Jarusalem.

Tell me, anybody, was the original partition fair? why or why not?

It seems to me that it was fair, Israel had a strip of land along the Mediterranean sea and the negev desert.

Finally, the Jews are an ethnicity. When I say the Jews need a home, I mean Hebrew people need a homeland. Just as the Gypsies need a homeland as well, everybody hates them as well.

Mormons have a home, and they are a religion and I am not talking about religion.

Hebrew people have a genetic marker just as every ethnicity does. The Lamba of South Africa who practice the Jewish faith have a genetic marker that their surrounding tribes do not have, a marker unique most likely to the middle east.

Historically the Jews occupied Palestine for a very long time, after the disporia they wandered to many different places, no doubt mixing in with the locals as they went but their original racial makeup has not changed. They merely came home. The Arabs have a huge amount of land as it is, Israel was allocated a strip of land along the Mediterranean sea and the Negev, so why did the Arabs attack them? They should have left them alone, if they did then Israel wouldn’t be as big as it is today.

The Arabs and Jews are related, from the same man, Abraham, I do not see why they cant get along. You reap what you sow.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf3.html - http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf3.html

Just have the courage to say what you think, that it is ok for suicide bombers to kill innocent people.

What do you say when they kill Muslims as well? I though suicide was against Islam,. or am i mistaken?

The original UN proposed and never enforced/applied partition wasn't fair. The only pseudo-fair partition, as you can see from the above maprs would be to detach a small 5-10 km thick strip of coast from Palestine to give the  Jews their obsession. If we were to giev them only th districts where Jews were majority, theyw would get only the Tel-Aviv-Jaffa area. It would have been unfair anyhow, as the very original Zionist settlement to start with was a very unfair decission. But if it was to have a partition, give each what they are majoritary in: Jaffa for Israel, the rest for Palestine.

But they would better gave them Silesia or Schlewig-Holstein. What partition of Germany would you think it would have been fair to compensate from the Holocaust? Before the Nazi crime there was about 10% of Jews in Germany, more than that in Poland... why weren't these lands partitioned instead than that of people who had done them nothing?

They do? Hope that you are giving them your homeland because I plan to defend mine by all means necessary. Nothing againts Gypsies, but my country is not in sale.

They are the exactly kind of "nation" that Jews are: a nation formed round religion and claiming a holy land. Jews are not a nation: they are French, German, English, US-Americans, Belgia, Russian, Turk, Arab... and Palestinian. They are just a religious minority that want to be a nation resuciting a language dead 1900 years agon and invading a land lost 1900 years ago... That's not my problem: it is theirs.

It's like Catholics wold want to recreate the Roman Empire, Muslims the Umayyad Caliphate or Buddhist the Asoka Empire. Sorry, no way.

Not fully true. First not all ethnicieties have any special genetic marker nor this is anything that is exclussive to them nor that is not spread among other peoples. You probably can't pick up a Frenchman from a German or a chinese from a Japanese, what doesn't mean that they are the same nation. You can easily pick apart an Afroamerican from and Angloamerican but they are the same nation, or so they say (else, are you going to give way to Neo-African claims?).

Second Palestinian Arabs and Sephardic Jews are indistinguishable while Askhenazi and Sephardic Jews, are much more easy to pick apart from each other, this is probably caused by a bottleneck in Askhenazi difussion history and mixture with Khazaks (convert Jews of Turk origin).

Originally the USA was in hands of the Native nations, originally Britain was a Celtic nation, originally Japanese lived out of Japan. Originally we were all in Tanzania and Kenya and no nation or "race" existed yet.

Palestine was a Jewish nation only since c. 1300 BCE to before 100 CE, that means that it was Hebrew less time (1400 years) than it has been Palestinian (Christian/Muslim) (1900 years). It also means that originally, as it is very graphically and shamelessly depicted in the Bible, Jews conquered Palestine to other nations, most notably the Canaanites. Canaanite most ancient claim could well be linked to that of Arabs, as they did speak a Semitic language.

Who cares? "Races" are meaningless.

They didn't came home... if your ancestor's bloodly conquered "home" was expropiated 2000 years ago (two milennia!!!) and your home sold or gifted to a third person, what valid claim would you have?

I want the same reasoning applied to Native Americans right now.

i dont say that it is "Allright" to kill civilian and the Same Applies to the Isaeli Army.

But in wars things like these happens and No body has the right to kill innocent civilians of Both the Attackers or the defenders. 

Israeli Army is supported by its governmets ( elected democratic government) and the Palistinian Occupation ressistace is supported by the Palistinians ( which is democratic somehow)

i think Aeolus post here earlier is a good explanation of the situation

---------------------------------

Loknar and Cyrus

you both are trying or making it sounds like Arabs  were the secound Hitler and they are anti-semitic and wanted to kill the jews .... etc. 

Arabs were not like Hitler, Arabs didnt and Dont want to kill jew and kick them out of their homes.

Infact Jew lived with Muslims all the time in Baghdad, Damascus and north Africa and Islamic spain not for 100 years but for more than a 1000 years and they lived in peace had their buissness and achieved in many feilds.

Arabs beign anti-semitic is  a propaganda which is in no way true. that plus  that the  Arabis are the largest Semitic group in the world ! and they are accused of being anti-semitic !!

Arabs attacked the declared Israeli state because that it was Unfair to the people of Palistine and it was not like a group of people in the country declared independace no it was more like an occupation of others land and many reasons Maju mentioned Alot  of and i hope you read that.

Arab league proposed that this Area of Palistine to be ONE country for all of its occupants muslims, christans and Jews to live in peace together and practice their religion with no restrictions and have a Democratec Government elected by all of them.

now tell me what was wrong with this proposal?! Jew refused it and many jew refused the UN plan too and that it is unfare for the  Jew too !! and they deserve a Jewish country ONLY for Jews.!!

ok read this

"These boundaries were based solely on demographics. The borders of the Jewish State were arranged with no consideration of security; hence, the new state's frontiers were virtually indefensible. Overall, the Jewish State was to be comprised of roughly 5,500 square miles and the population was to be 538,000 Jews and 397,000 Arabs. The Arab State was to be 4,500 square miles with a population of 804,000 Arabs and 10,000 Jews. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf3.html%20/%203a - ^3a Though the Jews were allotted more total land, the majority of that land was in the desert."

"Nearly 80 percent of what was the historic land of Palestine and the Jewish National Home, as defined by the http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mandatetoc.html - League of Nations , was severed by the British in 1921 and allocated to what became Transjordan. Jewish settlement there was barred. The http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/untoc.html - UN http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/parttoc.html - partitioned the remaining 20-odd percent of Palestine into two states. With http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/arabs/jortoc.html - Jordan’s annexation of the http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/wbtoc.html - West Bank in 1950, and http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/arabs/egypt.html - Egypt's control of http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/gazatoc.html - Gaza , Arabs controlled more than 80 percent of the territory of the http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mandatetoc.html - Mandate , while the Jewish State held a bare 17.5 percent. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf3.html%20/%206a - ^{6a "}

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf3.html - ^{http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf3.html}

Why should they have any place in Europe? All of know the history of Europeans and anti Semitism and how deep it is rooted there. Hell even today it is on the rise, especially in France (big surprise). Aside from that there were plans to move the Jews to Kenya and Madagascar, but why not Palestine? I don’t care if the locals don’t like the Jews being there, too bad, the Jews must have a state because nobody else wants them.

Well, I dont see a problerm giving them some unused land here in AMerica. However, if they wanted a historic homeland where would that be? Some small strip f land in Romania perhaps? I see nothing wrong with it if the Gypsies want it.

Big deal, many modern day countries were founded by religion or with strong religious ties, America is one of those.

The Jews are a branch of the Semitic people bound by their practice religion and belief in God, which no doubt helped to preserve their identity.

You're talking about an empire, I am talking about a homeland where these people can be safe.

Actually you could. There was an archaeological excavation in Xinjiang China where Aryan mummies were found. Hundreds of genetic samples were taken, and for some reason these samples were confiscated by the Chinese government. However some samples were obtained. The results were that one of these mummies had genetic markers in common with the Corsican peoples and another with the Scandinavians. You could pick up a Chinese from say a Korean, the Koreans were actually from the Urals and journeyed west.

AN African American can send in a blood sample to a genetic company and find that their genetic lineage can be traced back to Ghana. Furthermore, among the clergy of the Lamba of South Africa, they have a genetic marker unique to Jewish Clergymen all over the world.

Good point, I cede this fact to you.

Btw, how can you claim we all were from Tanzania and Kenya?

Yes this is true, but I don care that the Jews conquered the land, the reason being God told them to do it and aside from that these tribes practiced child sacrifice.

Of course today I do not think that the Jews should have a homeland because God promised them a land over 2000 years ago. I believe they should have one because nobody else wants them.

Not race, perhaps ethnicity is the word i am looking for.

Well, I can tell you this, the native American is doing just fine today. And what we did was no different than what the Russians did, what the Chinese are doing ect...

The problem here is that no 1 side is entirely %100 correct....but the original plan for Israel was a fair and correct plan, hell the Jews got a big chunk of desert land, wow like the Arabs don’t have enough of that.

Yes, how many Jews are left in North Africa? How did the Jews fare under Saddam?

Oh, and what about the Grand Mufti?

Simple, the Jews would live in a country where eventually they would be out-numbered and loose political power. The Jews need a state of their own , and all the land that was ceded to them wasn’t much.

Don't be so sure of this. I always see Palestinians yelling death to Israel all the time. I think the original middle eastern jews got along with the palestinians, but since the european ones came over to Israel, thse jews caused most of the problems in my opinion..

emperor, please edit your post, that quote you have wasnt made by me but by Caliph

you must have decided to click the quote button before i realized I forgot to make a quote box.

Originally posted by Maju I don care that the Jews conquered the land, the reason being God told them to do it I don't have time right now to reply to all the post of Loknar but this "pearl" is difficult to ignore. How do you know that any "God" ordered no one to do anything. With such reasonings you can justify even Hitler's genocide. Who dares to say that it wasn't "God" who told him to do such atrocity?

Because it is in the Bible, unlike most people i have read about half of it.

The tribes left behind were semetic tribes who were warned in advance to abandon their pegan worship.

I know I sound like a Zelot, however, when it comes to God and if I know he issued such commands,  I support it.

Besides,   child sacrafice to Ba'al seem barbaric,  though this could just be my opinion.

i dont know if sadam killed Jew like he hitler did, actully Sadamm killed many people not Jew in particular.

i was talking about Arabs relation with Jewish comunites BEFORE 1948

Obviously after 1948 Majority of Arabs are Anti-Israel  why?  because they made the life of palistinians hell.

still there is an Anti-Israel feelings but doesn't mean if Arabs got stronger they would've done what Hitler done.

people in Palistine showting "death to Israel"   BECAUSE they are in a WAR situation and they want revenge for their deaths and destroyed homes.

still Doesn't mean if Palistinians got stronger they will do what Hitler did.

and Don't forget that some of these Palistinians were jew and converted to Islam  so they are not different from Jew who stayed Jew.

and What Grand Mufti are you talking about? the Iranian or the saudi or the egyptian or they jordanian or the syrian or what?

as far as i know there are jew in iran living safely. there are jew in yemen , egypt and morrocco too.

and dont confuse the terms  Judaisim is a religion and Arab is a languge.

there are ARAB JEWS too.

so whats the problem they will live in a democratic country they can live in peace in it !!

they will be out-numbered because they are not the majority Simple ! how can you give the majority of the land to the Minority??

even if they didnt like the Arab proposal, they couldv'e edited it  something like having it in the constitution that jew are always 50% of the government or any other edite ( even if that is not fare) but all for peace.

and if they wanted a state for their own and not having non-jew with them they shouldv'e made that in areas which they owned not Occupy others lands.

they didnt accept Arabs proposal and they didnt accept the UN proposal and they wanted to have everything they owned and everythig they dont own.

and for your information  many Jew belive that Israel land is from the Nile in Egypt to Elphurate in Iraq.

and from maju's post of Palistine map you'll see that the country they wanted to make is not all Jewish land and that Considered an Occupations Arabs didnt accept for their fellow Arabs and they felt that they must Defend their rights.

Originally posted by Maju Population of pre-Partition Palestine in maps: Map of land property in 1948, showing UN partition line and armistice line: Source: http://www.al-bab.com/arab/maps/palestine.htm - http://www.al-bab.com/arab/maps/palestine.htm

Some pics from Yahudiah (modern Isfahan):

Anceint Hebrew inscription of the tomb of Sarah, the daughter of the patriarch Asher (son of Jacob) in Linjan, one of Jewish villages in the Faridan region of Isfahan:

500 years old Hebrew writing on the wall of one of 23 historical Synagogues in Isfahan:

250 years old Hebrew writing on a Jewish carpet in Isfahan:

150 years old Hebrew writing on a Jewish marriage-contract in Isfahan:

No the emnity between Palestinians and Jews goes back to 135 AD when the Palestinians destroyed almost 1,000 Jewish villages and massacred more than half a million Jews, of course it is better to say that it was after this crime that those murderes who also occupied Jewish lands, called themselves Palestinians.

You will find that it was the Romans who did that and you are talking about Bar Kokhba's revolt, the Romans were merely supressing a revolt and ensuring future rebellions would not happen not killing the poor Jews because they were Jews, they did this in MANY other provinces too, Jews are not special in this instance.

I think the Jews were simply following the wording of their book of religious authority, the Talmud, when they killed the Christians.

And Loknar I am simply shocked to hear that you approve of ethnic cleansing merely because some cracked out racist wrote it in a book of myths  <2000 years ago.

Sickening, but hardly surprising:

And Abraham planted a tamarisk-tree in Beer-sheba, and called there on the name of the Lord, the Everlasting God.

And Abraham sojourned in the land of the Philistines many days.""

And the Philistines followed hard upon Saul and upon his sons; and the Philistines slew Jonathan, and Abinadab, and Malchishua, the sons of Saul.

And the battle went sore against Saul, an the archers overtook him; and he was in great anguish by reason of the archers.

Then said Saul to his armour-bearer: 'Draw thy sword, and thrust me through therewith; lest these uncircumcised come and thrust me through, and make a mock of me.' But his armour-bearer would not; for he was sore afraid. Therefore Saul took his sword, and fell upon it.

And when his armour-bearer saw that Saul was dead, he likewise fell upon his sword, and died with him.

So Saul died, and his three sons, and his armour-bearer, and all his men, that same day together.

And when the men of Israel that were on the other side of the valley, and they that were beyond the Jordan, saw that the men of Israel fled, and that Saul and his sons were dead, they forsook the cities, and fled; and the Philistines came and dwelt in them.

And it came to pass on the morrow, when the Philistines came to strip the slain, that they found Saul and his three sons fallen in mount Gilboa.

And they cut off his head, and stripped off his armour, and sent into the land of the Philistines round about, to carry the tidings unto the house of their idols, and to the people.""

Wow! Talk about revisionist history. In other words the Arabs don't have a leg to stand on. Oh well, guess the Israelis should just pack up and go to where they came from too. Poor logic eh?

I don't mean to be disresectful against your faith in a malicious way.

If the rule book of your faith goes above and beyond the privacy of faith and sanctions and justifies inhumane acts against others exlcusive of that faith, then it is more than just a faith, it is an ideology, and a dangerous one at that.

I am agnostic, I deem ethnic cleansing perpetrated by any sect or faction as barbaric.

"Ethnic" is not solely descriptive of race;

eth·nic    https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dethnic"> ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (thnk) adj. Of or relating to a sizable group of people sharing a common and distinctive racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage. Being a member of a particular ethnic group, especially belonging to a national group by heritage or culture but residing outside its national boundaries: ethnic Hungarians living in northern Serbia. Of, relating to, or distinctive of members of such a group: ethnic restaurants; ethnic art. Relating to a people not Christian or Jewish; heathen. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ethnic - http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ethnic

• The state of Israel exists and has its own international borders.
• The existing settlements are so designed [by location] so as to have maximum disruptive effect upon the Palestinian people, infringing ont heir land in such a way so as to make everyday life that we, in the West, take for granted while the settlers wallow in luxury before their very eyes, on land they once inhabited.
• As if that wasn't enough the settlements (in the West Bank) have "buffer zones" which swallow up thousands of acres of fertile Palestinian farmland.
• The water supply to the Palestinians is controlled by the Israelis and is routinely cut off to accommodate the settler's luxurious needs.

I am not against the state of Israel, I am against the apartheid like treatment of Palestinians by Israel.  I do not feel in the least bit sorry for the settlers, they knew they were settling on occupied territory illegaly and they are being more than generously compensated for their "suffering", a a walk in the park compared to that of the Palestinians.

That is what jews in Gaza are doing they are packing up and going where they come from If that is poor logic that should apply to both side if it is good logic it should apply to both side. Either things have to be decided based on current situation or based on history. If you want to use history you can't come up with the exact number of years to favor your side. Why is 40 years is invalid and 100 years is vaild and 2000 years is invalid

It is not my desire but if jews are forced toleave their homes in gaza to a heaven in Isreal then along the same logic arabs should be forced to leave middle east and north africa to a heaven in mecca

yes jews are among the people that currently inhabit gaza

In that case then North Africa and all other areas u mentioned would be largely deserted, and you are basing your logic on the notion that all Arab countries host a new population that arrived from the Peninsula between 7-9th CE, a practical impossibility. Most Arab lands became Arabised through Quranic influence because of the fact that they had no previous sense of independent identity, unlike Iran, prior to Islam they had been part of one Empire or another throughout their history. This makes said argument null.

ok,

before accusing others for attacking your Poor jews !

how did the Poor Jews got to that land at the first place? !  was it peacefull and harmless sattelments?

yes thats makes sense, also dont froget North and South America and Australia and Newzeland and other countries who are under "Occupation" they should learn from the Israelis too  dont you think so? 

and for your information all Arabs didnt come from Makkah ( mecca ),there are no wells in Makkah which produces Arabs. dont belive anything you dream of.

so as the Arabs are semitic if you dont know that yet !

and about the Book of your faith, i guess it explains alot why "jew must have a country" and you must support that even if it doesnt make sense and out of logic.

and before jumping to other topics it would be nice to replay to my replay to your post earlier so i know that iam wrong and brainwashed.

In the rest of the world at least, Jews spoke other languages: Yiddish in Central Europe, Sephardic (old Spanish) in Turkey and other Muslim areas, and Hebrew was limited to ritual use: it was a dead language as much as Latin. Now, I don't know if they continued speaking Hebrew in Iran... or it was just more of the same: ritual use of an old tongue.