History repeats in Gaza

Of course Palestine's a country Cyrus. It has existed since the Romans conquered Judea and its people are the descendents of Jews who converted to Christianity and Islam when the Arabs invaded in the 7th century

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Originally posted by Baal Melqart because your statement is false, big time and I can prove it to be so. You're just regurgitating extremist pro-zionist opinions, not the first time I heard such alleged facts. Yes, Jews are genetically descended from the Hebraic peoples or Israelites that once lived in Palestine and I guess that means they have a right to live in this land. So far I agree. Yet the Palestinians according to such a standard are even more deserving to have a share of the land than the Jews themselves, namely because they have more blood from ancient Israelites and this has been supported even by many prominent Jews, such as Ben Gurion. Anyone who studies the genetics and culture of the Palestinians can tell you quite clearly that your claim is baseless. Palestinian names for villages and many of their customs have a very deep connection with ancient Jewish traditions and it suffices that the Keffiyah that palestinians still wear nowadays has threads at the corners, exactly like a Tzitzit on a Jewish prayer shawl. Many scholars have noted these many similarities in culture and tradition. The fact of the matter is that the region was inhabited by Jews and Christians who were native to it. When the Muslims conquered Palestine, many were either forced or coerced to convert and these converted Jews and Christians are the modern-day Palestinians. To claim that they are originally from Hijaz simply because they were conquered by those people is to say that all Iranians nowadays are from Hijaz simply because of the Muslim conquests. I mean, you know better than me that the Bedouins of Hijaz were not a very numerous people back in those days and that's mainly because desert regions do not promote population growth. The conquerors were a small minority in the lands which they conquered and as such it is utterly unreasonable to say that they somehow were able to genetically displace all the Jewish/Christian Palestinians that were living there for many centuries before them. Now I'm not gonna deny that the Palestinians definitely have some descent from Hijazis and other bedouins tribes that lived in Jordana and Syria but then this would be the same for all nations nowadays. Can anyone say that a modern-day nation has a pure race? Of course not... Call the land whatever you want, Palestine, Israel, Judah... The fact will still remain that Palestinians have a deep connection with this land and have long-time history to back it up as well.   Ok, a country can't have two names, the name of this land is Israel and those who live there are called Israeli, they can be Jew, Muslim, Chritsian, ... and can speak Hebrew, Arabic, ... but their nationality is Israeli, not Palestinan.   Arabs make up about one-fifth of Israel's population, of course they can live there but it is meaningless to say they should rule over the whole population because they probably have more blood from ancient people who lived in this land!!

When did I make such an outrageous claim? I never said Palestinians should rule over the region. I just said that they have a very strong claim to live there and I was merely using their genetics as an example. I didn't mean that they literally had more right to the land, I was simply stressing the historical and genetic bonds they have with this land...

Yeah, I'm sure all those pictures are fake. Heck, all the medias are just lying, says who that even a single Palestinian died during the clash? My point is that people died and it was futile.

Originally posted by Baal Melqart When did I make such an outrageous claim? I never said Palestinians should rule over the region. I just said that they have a very strong claim to live there and I was merely using their genetics as an example. I didn't mean that they literally had more right to the land, I was simply stressing the historical and genetic bonds they have with this land...

I don't talk about current conflict. My opinion is Hamas should stop attack, Israel should give East Jeraselam and other lands. I wouldn't write anything in this topic unless I won't able to stop myself after seeing written things by Cyrus

CYRUS

1-Origin of Palestines is not Arabistan like not all current Turks aren't from Central Asia, all Arabs do not come from Arabistan

Originally posted by Characteristic HLA Allele Frequencies of the Palestinian Population Compared With Other Mediterraneans The close relatedness of Palestinians to Iranians, Armenians, Egyptians and Anatolians (Turks ) further support an autochthonous Canaanite/Middle East origin for both Palestinians and Jews

http://www.stml.net/text/Populations.pdf

People of Palestine are belongs to Levant. Jews and Palestines are brothers and this is not for a peace message. Geneticaly, they are close.

2-You give the jews rights to come back that lands,  are you giving same rights to refugees of Palestine who left their home just 50-60 years ago not in ancient Roman times?


 




Edited by Ollios - 24-Nov-2012 at 03:52

Ollios, I said what the problem is in my above post, I wish everyone live in the best situation but some people can't do it because of theie own leaders.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Originally posted by Baal Melqart When did I make such an outrageous claim? I never said Palestinians should rule over the region. I just said that they have a very strong claim to live there and I was merely using their genetics as an example. I didn't mean that they literally had more right to the land, I was simply stressing the historical and genetic bonds they have with this land...  You say again Palestinian, they are some Arabs who live in Israel, some millions Arabs also live in the south and southwest Iran, in 19th century this region was known as Arabistan, so some Arab separatists call this people Arabistani, not just Arab.

Nope, I believe I explained this to you but I think it won't matter how many times I repeat myself... Palestinians or whatever you want to call them (It just makes it a lot easier to refer to when you give them a name doesn't it?) are descended from the Jews and Christians that once lived in this land before the Muslim conquest.

What you are doing Cyrus, is you are confusing the political entity with the racial one. The race is the same and they have been living in the region for God knows how long. They are technically Israelites if you look at it from a racial point of view, that's basically my point.

As to the Political entity present in this land, I guess that's a totally different matter. If this group of people who live in Israel identify themselves as having their own culture and identity then they have the right to have their own country and they can call it Palestine or whatever they wish to call it.

Now, we would all wish that there was one state, say the Israel that we know nowadays governing the entire region because we have seen that it has democratic values and can cater to its citizens. The issue of course is the dark history between Israelis and Palestinians which wouldn't make such a unity possible, imo. If we talk, say, about a two-state solution then you know better than me that this would never work given the overwhelming presence of terrorist groups all over...

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Baal Melqart, I think you are the one who has just focused on the racial issues, as I said it is meaningless to say some people have more blood from another people who still live, we don't talk about ancient extinct people such as Sumerians, Hittites or Babylonians, for example I'm a Persian, it can't change anything if you prove a Jew who lives in Iran has more Persian blood than me, for about 1,200 years the capitals of the Persian empires were located at modern Iraq, many of our great Persian kings and noblemen were born and died there, so many Iraqis have more Persian blood than Iranians, especially because the large amount of Turkic mixture in Iran, so does it mean Iraqis can easily claim our country? No because it is not just about the blood, please understand this thing.

Well then we're in agreement. Why exactly you try to discredit the Palestinians as ''just some group of Arabs'' is beyond me. No it is not only about blood, it's also about history, culture and the belonging one feels for the land.

Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Originally posted by Baal Melqart Well then we're in agreement. Why exactly you try to discredit the Palestinians as ''just some group of Arabs'' is beyond me. No it is not only about blood, it's also about history, culture and the belonging one feels for the land.   Should we call Kurds of Iraq Assyrians because they live in the ancient land of Assyria? What about Kurds of Turkey, Iran or Syria? They have no independent country and they are all Kurds, aren't they? The same thing can be said about Arabs, what should call some millions Arabs of Iran?   Anyway I am not opposite of forming a Palestinian state, but on the condition that this state respects the existence of Israel as a state and never support terrorists in the region, in the current situation that terrorists are at power, this thing seems to be impossible.

Nice try Cyrus. No Kurds are not Assyrians but then this is not a good comparison with the Palestinians namely because Palestinians belong to Israel and are not intruders in the land. The Arabs of Iran come from places like Bahrain, UAE and Oman. Palestinians are originally from the land of Israel.

Israel has been always considered as a Holy Land, through the history several different peoples captured this land or migrated there, what we know for sure is that both the original and current people of Israel are Jews, "Native” means someone born within a particular country, so the majority of natives of Israel are also Jews. The problem is that you talk about racist things, like those who have more blood and etc!