History repeats in Gaza
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Scholarly Pursuits
Forum Name: Current Affairs
Forum Discription: Debates on topical, current World politics
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32695
Printed Date: 14-May-2024 at 18:44
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Topic: History repeats in Gaza
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Subject: History repeats in Gaza
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 03:02
This time by the dirty palestinian terrorists: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/israel-and-palestine/121120/israel-israeli-spies-gaza-lynch-mob-hamas-corpse-execution - http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/israel-and-palestine/121120/israel-israeli-spies-gaza-lynch-mob-hamas-corpse-execution
 I talked about Batis, one of Iranian Heros in this thread: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27760 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27760
Siege of Gaza by Alexander (332 BC): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Gaza - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Gaza
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Replies:
Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 04:28
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Is this one on photo,human being Cyrus or doll?History(HiSToRi) has never failed it's name till today!Events that happens today had been started long time ago.History just resurrects them.Which does purpose use for it?Ruling of territories?Preserving of world order?In ancient time Alexander used,old conflict had happened here before in drama with horses.It is Middle East&Indian idea not "Greek"."Greeks" simply cut the head&put male organ in his mouth with stone Epitaph!I saw it on History but can not find a picture now.Maybe you will help me.Regards Cyrus! 
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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 06:19
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Of course not a doll but obviously a poor man, the worst thing is that, as you read from the above link, the poeple of Gaza encouraged this action and there were also children on the street! -------------
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Posted By: medenaywe
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 06:34
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New Wave of animal heard behavior comes all around the world and old racial "scientific" theories are inside all "democratic" governments projects.It is a pity for human kind.Did the police prevent&punish it? |
Posted By: Toltec
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 06:43
History is indeed repeating itself, yet another attempt to to collectively blame a peoples, a nation, a political view based on the actions of individuals or tiny groups. This has been the tactic of oppressive regimes and justification for genocide since time began. a rather transparent attempt at propaganda ,have you been watching too much Fox News,? You need to raise your standards a bit.
 ------------- Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out? http://historyplanet.wordpress.com - History Planet Website <br / |
Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 10:10
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Spies and traitors have been executed in time of war since before even Batis was born. Ancient Persian execution techniques were quite inventive as I recall. "Behold the head of a traitor" was a common cry throughout history. Even America has the death penalty for treason http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2381. From your article these people were responsible for the deaths of their own people and ultimately, a fundamental tenet of any legal system is, "Justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done." |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 10:21
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Cyrus likes to focus on cruelty committed by some Palestinians but all these pictures I've seen of burnt infants, open skulls and offals dragging on the streets is enough to see through your bias. We never hear you talking against the crimes committed by Israel, although what they have done is exponentially much worse than dragging a man on the street. That's called double-standard and you can't be philanthropic to just a segment of humanity, it doesn't work that way. You're gonna say something like ''But Israel was targeting terrorists who happen to use human-shields, oops'', well this guy was a spy so fair game. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 11:05
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Then you see nothing wrong with Hamas sending rockets into populated areas of Israel, without warning or provocation. And of course Israel's reaction was unjustified and an over reaction to political statements made with artillery fire.
Israel exists, it's not going anywhere and it will get stronger still. There are many countries aside from the US who support it.
Being as anti Zionist as you are, you probably won't agree with any of this. Hamas and Hezbollah have to suck it in and realize they are opposing something much bigger than they are, and start to put their resources to use improving the general conditions of the Palestinian people. The amount of money spent on acquiring arms is staggering. If used in another manner, that money could drastically improve the lives of everyday Palestinians. If that was what they were really interested in.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 11:23
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Baal Melqart, do you talk about the crimes committed by the prophet Muhammad and his successors? Of course talking or not talking is one thing and supporting or not supporting an ugly action is another thing, I never support the crimes committed by some Israelis, but just not talk about them. -------------
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Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 12:36
Absolute BS, Clay! I have openly spoken against Hamas and I oppose what they do whole-heartedly. Yes, they are terrorists and I have absolutely no problem in saying it. The problem I am seeing here, which is the reason behind my comment, is that some of you seem to take sides with Israel against Palestinians as if Israel is beyond reproach. It just seems to me that if you speak against crimes committed by palestinians and Hamas, why leave out Israel from your criticism? Is Israel beyond reproach simply because they have a semi-democracy? ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Toltec
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 12:46
I would hardly call being attacked by Israel, no provocation. As for attack without warning, isn't that exactly what Israel did on US election day being as they knew it would not be reported in the US media that day. In both case you mention the Palestinians doing something but completely omit mentioning when Israel does something.... Bias?
I believe Hamas follows this view, this is exactly how their doctrine differs from the PLO. This is why they oppose short term peace deal and focus on the long term, they point out all countries rise and fall over centuries and realise they may have to sit it out til the 22nd or 23rd century for an Israel weak enough to take. Your line of attack on Hamas seems very ill-conceived because it actually just reaffirms the source of their strength.
You seem unaware of what is happening in the region, I guess US media bias. The Gaza strip is under blockade and was since the election, that's the whole point, there are no resources. As for the West Bank the situation is even worse, you have to have a country to spend money and resources on, if on a daily basis you are being evicted from your country piece by piece how on earth do you do this?
------------- Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out? http://historyplanet.wordpress.com - History Planet Website <br / |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 12:47
You're gonna drag me into a subject that is too big to be spoken of here without going totally off-topic. I have spoken many times against the image of Muhammad that is portrayed in Islamic books and said myself that Muslims have no reason to complain about people ridiculing their prophet if they themselves can't get their own shit together. Suffice it to say, this does not affect me in any way but I have criticised them many times because of the crimes they believe Muhammad committed and whole-heartedly agree with, just because they think them to be true and authentic accounts. In fact, this exact topic has got me in trouble with so many of my family members and friends, so no you can't culpabilise me for turning a blind eye on this topic. As to speaking against the crimes of the so called 'successors' or 'companions' I have done that quite a few times, even on this forum! I am also constantly criticising them in front of people and on other forums whenever I get a chance to. I think they are all bloody psychopaths, theives and murderers and I have made my opinion as clear as broad daylight. Cyrus, when you only speak out against a single group f people then you must understand that this sounds like you're taking sides and spreading a form of propaganda. I'm not saying that you are in agreement with israel's crimes but it wouldn't hurt to show some neutrality and apply the same judgement on Israel. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 22-Nov-2012 at 19:23
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I like you, Challenger. You can see Zionism for what it is: the cause of terrorism in the Middle East. On the other hand, the Palestinians need to renounce violence: it has done nothing but alienate the rest of the world. If Hamas and Fatah launched a campaign of peaceful civil disobedience like Gandhi, Martin Luther King or Nelson Mandela, the Zionists would be unable to run the occupied Palestinian territories and have no choice but to leave
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Toltec
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 00:34
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You mean like all the Tibetans must do is renounce violence and then the Chinese will leave? Or all in the way the Easter Islanders don't use violence and Chileans have left (oh I forget, they haven't). ------------- Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out? http://historyplanet.wordpress.com - History Planet Website <br / |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 01:26
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There is no country named Palestine, the original land of these Arabs who call themselves Palestinian is the Arabian Peninsula, Jews already live in their own motherland, why some people can't understand these obvious facts?!! -------------
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Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 08:20
Probably because they're neither obvious nor facts, but the usual Zionist historical distortion of history. The region was named "Palestina" by the Romans and it was a Roman province until the Muslim conquests of the 7th Century CE. Interestingly the Arab invaders did not displace the people in the area but lived alongside them and there is no recorded historical colonisation by Arabs from the Arabian penunsula. The indigenous peoples merely learned to speak Arabic and many converted to Islam in the succeeding centuries. If you are saying there was never a sovereign independant state called Palestine before 1918, I'd have to agree, nevertheless the state of Palestine was recognised by the League of Nations as a state in being but under temporary supervision by the British until it was ready to assume a sovereign status. This is something Zionist historiography strenuously avoids mentioning. As regards the Zionist state of Israel, that didn't exist until 1948 and it is still not recognised as a state by large portions of the planet outside of the "West". The original motherlands of most the current inhabiants of the Zionist state are to be found in Europe. |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 09:21
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Talking about the past can't solve any problem, it is true that from the ancient times Babylonians, Romans, Arabs and etc tried to displace Jews from their own land but now they are living there, about most of them, their grandparents were also born in Israel, this is their only country.
It doesn't matter what some silly Islamists want, in fact they want not only Israel but all other non-Islamic countries are destoyed. -------------
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Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 10:27
because your statement is false, big time and I can prove it to be so. You're just regurgitating extremist pro-zionist opinions, not the first time I heard such alleged facts. Yes, Jews are genetically descended from the Hebraic peoples or Israelites that once lived in Palestine and I guess that means they have a right to live in this land. So far I agree. Yet the Palestinians according to such a standard are even more deserving to have a share of the land than the Jews themselves, namely because they have more blood from ancient Israelites and this has been supported even by many prominent Jews, such as Ben Gurion. Anyone who studies the genetics and culture of the Palestinians can tell you quite clearly that your claim is baseless. Palestinian names for villages and many of their customs have a very deep connection with ancient Jewish traditions and it suffices that the Keffiyah that palestinians still wear nowadays has threads at the corners, exactly like a Tzitzit on a Jewish prayer shawl.   Many scholars have noted these many similarities in culture and tradition. The fact of the matter is that the region was inhabited by Jews and Christians who were native to it. When the Muslims conquered Palestine, many were either forced or coerced to convert and these converted Jews and Christians are the modern-day Palestinians. To claim that they are originally from Hijaz simply because they were conquered by those people is to say that all Iranians nowadays are from Hijaz simply because of the Muslim conquests. I mean, you know better than me that the Bedouins of Hijaz were not a very numerous people back in those days and that's mainly because desert regions do not promote population growth. The conquerors were a small minority in the lands which they conquered and as such it is utterly unreasonable to say that they somehow were able to genetically displace all the Jewish/Christian Palestinians that were living there for many centuries before them. Now I'm not gonna deny that the Palestinians definitely have some descent from Hijazis and other bedouins tribes that lived in Jordana and Syria but then this would be the same for all nations nowadays. Can anyone say that a modern-day nation has a pure race? Of course not... Call the land whatever you want, Palestine, Israel, Judah... The fact will still remain that Palestinians have a deep connection with this land and have long-time history to back it up as well. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 10:53
You started talking about the past and I disagree, in this instance the past is fundamental to the solution of the problem. I do not advocate expulsion of those children of colonists born there since 1948, I'm sure they will be productive citizens of a future "Palestisraeli" state, but the cancer of Zionism needs to be expunged from the region, so it can join Communism and Nazism and all the other "-isms" of the late 19th-early 20th century in the dustbin of history. |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 13:27
Ok, a country can't have two names, the name of this land is Israel and those who live there are called Israeli, they can be Jew, Muslim, Chritsian, ... and can speak Hebrew, Arabic, ... but their nationality is Israeli, not Palestinan.
Arabs make up about one-fifth of Israel's population, of course they can live there but it is meaningless to say they should rule over the whole population because they probably have more blood from ancient people who lived in this land!!
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 13:47
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Of course Palestine's a country Cyrus. It has existed since the Romans conquered Judea and its people are the descendents of Jews who converted to Christianity and Islam when the Arabs invaded in the 7th century ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 14:17
There is already no country with this name, and hopefully there won't be any as long as terrorists rule there. -------------
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Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 15:00
When did I make such an outrageous claim? I never said Palestinians should rule over the region. I just said that they have a very strong claim to live there and I was merely using their genetics as an example. I didn't mean that they literally had more right to the land, I was simply stressing the historical and genetic bonds they have with this land... ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 15:50
Many or most of what palestinian media presents is fake, children killed by palestinians themselves, photoshopped pictures or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pallywood - Pallywood productions.
Why you try to put Zionism along nazism and other malefic doctrines? Jews have every right to live and rule in their ancestral motherland, where they lived for millenia (the biblic story with the Jews coming from other part lead by Abraham is fake).
What you mean by country? palestine is just a derogatory name Romans gave to Judea, to insult the Jews after their two rebellions. There never was an independent Arab state in this territory. Up to 10th century the majority of population may been Jews (speaking Hebrew and having Judaic religion) as in Syria, Egypt the majority was Christian untill late middle age. -------------  |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 18:10
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Yeah, I'm sure all those pictures are fake. Heck, all the medias are just lying, says who that even a single Palestinian died during the clash? My point is that people died and it was futile. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 23-Nov-2012 at 20:13
Nonsense Baal ole chum. This is exactly what the Hamas terrorist leaders of Gaza wished for and received. Attention draw away from their masters in Iran. It's exactly what Iran wanted and will continue to endorse and support. It's exactly what Hezbollah wanted as they believe they can rest a little easier while their terrorist forces ramp up for their next rocket attacks. It's exactly what Morsi in Egypt wanted. He and the MB are now the new version of Mubarak and his former cronies vice his extra-legal decrease. I warned ya about that terrorist loving piece of shit a couple days ago.   It's exactly what the butchers of Assad in the Syria want. It's exactly what the Sudanese want. I can continue. It's EXACTLY what every Islamist terrorist and covert or overt apologist wished for. Damnation of the IG for it's defensive and natural reaction. Applause for the poor Palestinians who suffer the mania of their terrorist leaders. It's exactly what is necessary and justifiable in all the fascist, islamist terrorist, eyes to continue their planned and voiced campaign of genocide and the destruction of the State of Israel. And it ain't over yet..no matter the newest version of apologists..yourself not included.. now permeating the ranks of AE. Seen em come will seeeeeee em go...hi ho hi ho. Hq's in the Field Vic: Capitan Mtn, NM. retrans and router ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 24-Nov-2012 at 01:42
You say again Palestinian, they are some Arabs who live in Israel, some millions Arabs also live in the south and southwest Iran, in 19th century this region was known as Arabistan, so some Arab separatists call this people Arabistani, not just Arab. -------------
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Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 24-Nov-2012 at 02:42
Antigua-Barbuda? Bosnia-Herzegovina? Guinea-Bissau? St Kitts & Nevis? St Vincent & the Grenadines? Sao Tome & Principe? Trinidad & Tobago? United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 24-Nov-2012 at 03:51
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I don't talk about current conflict. My opinion is Hamas should stop attack, Israel should give East Jeraselam and other lands. I wouldn't write anything in this topic unless I won't able to stop myself after seeing written things by Cyrus CYRUS 1-Origin of Palestines is not Arabistan like not all current Turks aren't from Central Asia, all Arabs do not come from Arabistan
People of Palestine are belongs to Levant. Jews and Palestines are brothers and this is not for a peace message. Geneticaly, they are close. 2-You give the jews rights to come back that lands, are you giving same rights to refugees of Palestine who left their home just 50-60 years ago not in ancient Roman times?   ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 24-Nov-2012 at 05:04
If the problem is just a name then you call this country Palestisrael, but I think the major problem is that some terrorists groups, like hamas, want to rule over this land, they are similar to Assassins in the Middle Ages, they just want to kill and it really doesn't matter for them who the killed people are, their heroes are those brainwashed people who kill themselves to kill some other ones, it is clear that Jews can't live alongside these idiots. -------------
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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 24-Nov-2012 at 05:53
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Ollios, I said what the problem is in my above post, I wish everyone live in the best situation but some people can't do it because of theie own leaders. My father is already at hospital and I can't find an essential drug because of the sanctions imposed on my country, the situation could be different but our leaders want it and I have to live in this situation. -------------
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Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 24-Nov-2012 at 08:12
I'm of the same opinion. [QUOTE] like not all current Turks aren't from Central Asia, all Arabs do not come from Arabistan
Surely, today Turks are rather descendantds of Anatolian populations than of Altai Turks (although Altai Turks may have a genetic contribution too), which before were speaking Greek, Armenian etc and before that they spoke Hittite and other ancient Anatolian languages and so on. Arabs from Israel too are actually Arabized Jews, they're practically the same people with the Jews but speaking different language. The Askhenazi Jews being descendants of Khazars is a myth debunked by scientists on genetic basis. Both peoples, Arabs and Jews have equal rights in Israel and there must be created two states with equal advantages. ------------- |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 24-Nov-2012 at 10:43
Nope, I believe I explained this to you but I think it won't matter how many times I repeat myself... Palestinians or whatever you want to call them (It just makes it a lot easier to refer to when you give them a name doesn't it?) are descended from the Jews and Christians that once lived in this land before the Muslim conquest. What you are doing Cyrus, is you are confusing the political entity with the racial one. The race is the same and they have been living in the region for God knows how long. They are technically Israelites if you look at it from a racial point of view, that's basically my point. As to the Political entity present in this land, I guess that's a totally different matter. If this group of people who live in Israel identify themselves as having their own culture and identity then they have the right to have their own country and they can call it Palestine or whatever they wish to call it. Now, we would all wish that there was one state, say the Israel that we know nowadays governing the entire region because we have seen that it has democratic values and can cater to its citizens. The issue of course is the dark history between Israelis and Palestinians which wouldn't make such a unity possible, imo. If we talk, say, about a two-state solution then you know better than me that this would never work given the overwhelming presence of terrorist groups all over... ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 25-Nov-2012 at 11:23
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Baal Melqart, I think you are the one who has just focused on the racial issues, as I said it is meaningless to say some people have more blood from another people who still live, we don't talk about ancient extinct people such as Sumerians, Hittites or Babylonians, for example I'm a Persian, it can't change anything if you prove a Jew who lives in Iran has more Persian blood than me, for about 1,200 years the capitals of the Persian empires were located at modern Iraq, many of our great Persian kings and noblemen were born and died there, so many Iraqis have more Persian blood than Iranians, especially because the large amount of Turkic mixture in Iran, so does it mean Iraqis can easily claim our country? No because it is not just about the blood, please understand this thing. -------------
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Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 25-Nov-2012 at 12:32
Well then we're in agreement. Why exactly you try to discredit the Palestinians as ''just some group of Arabs'' is beyond me. No it is not only about blood, it's also about history, culture and the belonging one feels for the land. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 25-Nov-2012 at 13:59
Should we call Kurds of Iraq Assyrians because they live in the ancient land of Assyria? What about Kurds of Turkey, Iran or Syria? They have no independent country and they are all Kurds, aren't they? The same thing can be said about Arabs, what should call some millions Arabs of Iran?
Anyway I am not opposite of forming a Palestinian state, but on the condition that this state respects the existence of Israel as a state and never support terrorists in the region, in the current situation that terrorists are at power, this thing seems to be impossible. -------------
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Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 25-Nov-2012 at 14:57
Nice try Cyrus. No Kurds are not Assyrians but then this is not a good comparison with the Palestinians namely because Palestinians belong to Israel and are not intruders in the land. The Arabs of Iran come from places like Bahrain, UAE and Oman. Palestinians are originally from the land of Israel. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 27-Nov-2012 at 04:20
And that is quintessentially the point, no matter how much Zionists twist, obfuscate and rewite history, the "Palestinians" have always been there. They may have been called different names at different times in history, they may have converted to Judaism, Christianity or Islam or remained Pagan at various points in time, but they remain the indigenous inhabitants of the land and their fundamental right to be there trumps any pseudo-historic connection European adherants of Judaism may think they have. I have absolutely no objection to the European followers of Judaism living alongside the natives anywhere in the middle East if that's what they want to do and the natives don't object; my objection stems from their forced dispossession of the native peoples and their ongoing persecution of those that had nothing at all to do with the historical treatment of jews in Europe, in pursuit of their ultimate goal of a "Jews only" state. |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 27-Nov-2012 at 06:39
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Israel has been always considered as a Holy Land, through the history several different peoples captured this land or migrated there, what we know for sure is that both the original and current people of Israel are Jews, "Native” means someone born within a particular country, so the majority of natives of Israel are also Jews. The problem is that you talk about racist things, like those who have more blood and etc! -------------
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Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 27-Nov-2012 at 08:07
Israel didn't exist before 1948 CE, prior to that, the jury is still out on the actual existance of any such entity. Neither is it accurate to describe the native peoples as "Jews"; calling "Hebraic" or "Israelite" people "Jews" is like calling all Iranians, "Muslims". both statements contain elements of truth, but discount the fact that large sections of the population did not follow Judaism but worshipped other gods. A "Jew" is a follower of a religion, not an ethnic group, despite the Zionist propaganda to the contrary. |
Posted By: Baal Melqart
Date Posted: 27-Nov-2012 at 13:52
The problem is that you seem to misunderstand me every time I write a post so I think I will no longer comment on this topic because I have made my opinion very clear. I am not talking about anything ''racist'' I just mentioned that Palestinians have more blood relation to the Israelites than Jews. I never intended to make this statement in order to impune the Jew's rights to have a share in the land. It was said simply to make a point, namely that Palestinians were native to the land and that they deserve to live in this land just as much as the Jews, not ''more''. Palestinians are native, Jews are native, let's get over this simple issue please. ------------- Timidi mater non flet |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 27-Nov-2012 at 14:38
Your calling of the Jews from Europe this way (European adherents to Judaism) is a manipulation. A very small number of Jews were of European descent both in past and in present), most of them are as Israrelite as the Israel Arabs. Also, the Israel Arabs are not entirely of ancient Jewish descent, there is a considerable contribution of Arabs from surrounding countries. In the problem of the conflict, I don't know the details about land dispossessions, anyway, the fact is that Arabs are the agressors, not the Israel. Jews in Israel don't want war but peace, listen to this video: [tube]sNNhG0zDtA8[/tube] ------------- |
Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 02:46
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You are seriously citing a Pat Condell rant? Seriously? Suddenly a professional comedian is an expert on the Middle East, I think not.
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 07:50
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The Arabs were aggressors in 1948, 1967 and 1973 and Israel was within her rights to defend herself. In Gaza, however, it is Israel who is the aggressor. Imagine if, in response to the Troubles, the British expelled all Catholics from Northern Ireland and sent a punitive expedition down south. Such a strategy may have been effective in Cromwell's time, but these days we have the UN which is supposed to protect human rights and would, quite rightly, recognise such acts as an atrocity
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 13:38
If you consider the modern conception of a nation state as a "country", it can be said most of countries didn't exist before that date, anyway the country which already exists is Israel, the majority people of this country can be called Jew, Israelite, Hebraic or Zionist, what I say is that they themselves should decide about their country. Time never turns back, many things could be different 60 years ago, it is not possibe to go back to that date.
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Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 16:19
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Wish for a 2-state solution, but one side always wants what is more than the other side will accept.
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Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 17:06
I can agree with most of what you say, the borders of modern Europe were decided at Yalta, and have only recently reached some form of equilibrium with native peoples exercising their right of self determination. Unfortunately some native populations, such as the Kurds and Palestinians have been denied that right of self determination. Zionist Israel is a post war colonial enterprise which denied the native population their fundamental human rights. Let me put the question to you, if the Kurdish diaspora, supported by a major superpower returned to Iran and slaughtered and expelled the native Iranians, seized their homes and lands and told the survivors they could never return, how would Iranians react? |
Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 18:01
Problem would be that the Kurds mostly live where they're the majority, which would make your scenario a no-no. And if you look away from the last centuries, Iran has been federal and Kurds been a part of it as much as any other ethnicity. So the situation in Iran can not be compared to Israel, but the situation in Turkish-Kurdistan can, which many seem to forget or choose to forget.
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Posted By: Rocky
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 19:40
If the Irish surrounded Ulster with missiles, I am sure the British would have launched forces to take out those missile sites. I do not see any problem attacking a territory that is actively engaged in combat with your territory, by their own choice. I realize that the missiles in Cromwell's time came from bows, crossbows and trebuchets, so the comparison would only be valid if the Irish possessed missiles as dangerous as the rockets being used by the Palestinians
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 20:37
Excellent analogy...and bet your assets the Brit's would do exactly that. And as much as I love my ole pard Nick-san ....his statement is factually incorrect. This most recent spat is based on Hamas aggression which began in Dec 08 vice the blockade. Which also included various named thugs of the Islamist terrorist varieties joining in from outside Gaza.. Which in turn, was a result of previous attacks, reinforcements and equipment from the thugs in Iran and their proxies in Syria....to the thugs in Gaza. Hence this most recent example is a continuation of the same time line. A close and objective analysis reveals that the terrorists have always continued this since 48. Hence the bold proclamation that Israel is the aggressor.... don't wash fer shit up in the crick. Hq's in the Field Vic: Black Jack Camp Ground Apache NF, AZ. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 20:45
Ad hominem. If he is comedian, this doesn't impede him to have some good points and for that reason I put that video (I think it really worth be listened to the end). He also says that you can't make an agreement with hamas or other fascist nutcases (hamas also are opressors and exterminators of their own people) because they have in their 'principles' the extermination of Jews. ------------- |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 20:50
I don't consider Jews saints, but hamas is agressing them and if you don't answer in an intimidating way, the agressors will intensify their attacks. Imagine someone would fire that sort of rockets on Britain, do you think UK would answer with more "understanding"? The only thing the Jews could be blamed is the dispossesion of lands and illegal buildings in Arab territory, but for that terrorism is not the answer. ------------- |
Posted By: Toltec
Date Posted: 28-Nov-2012 at 21:32
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Pat Condell used to be a stand up comedian, however there's more comedy in that video above than one of his comedy performances. ------------- Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out? http://historyplanet.wordpress.com - History Planet Website <br / |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2012 at 03:53
These things have happened several times in Iran, about 1.7 million Kurds already live in the northeast of Iran, we still hear that there are some conflicts between Turkmen and Kurds in this region, in the northwest of Iran and the north of Iraq, Kurds have several times fought against Assyrians and Armenians and displaced them, of course the same things have happened several times for Kurds themsevles too and we see in some regions where Kurds lived for a long time, there is already almost no Kurd, like Shahrekord (City of Kurds).
Lets compare Israel to Faridan region in Iran, in the west of Isfahan in the central Iran, there is a region named Faridan where several thousands Georgians (a Caucasian people) live, there is a major Gerogian ciy named Fereydunshahr and numerous Georgian villages, about 300 years ago the Persian king Karim Khan Zand (of the Zand clan of the Lur tribe), claimed Faridan is the ancestral land of his tribe, he could be true because we know Lurs lived there for a long time, so he fought against Georigans, destroyed several villages and killed almost the one half of the Georgian population, for Lurs, he is certainly a hero and for Georgians, he is a cruel, but both of these people already live there peacefully and it is meaningless to say this one is native and this one is not.
If you kill one half of Israelis, you can be sure that another half of them will never leave their land, the situation of Jews in Israel is similar to the situation of Georgians in Faridan, they just bought some lands and gradually became the majority, it is not a crime.
Anyway we should believe in change, talking about the past can't solve any problem, a land belong to those people who have been born there. -------------
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Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2012 at 05:23
Well you've answered a question, but not the one I asked. I put forward a hypothetical case. Put simply, what would Iranians do if a foreign people with, at best, a tenuous connection to Iran came and drove the Iranians out of their homes and off their lands where they and their families had lived for centuries, called their country "Babylonia" and told them that they could never return? Presumably, from your comments, 60 years later the Iranians woul quietly accept that those now born in "Babylonia", the "Babylonians", had a better claim to the land than the disposessed Iranians and they'd quiently just abandon their culture and heritage and assimilate with their surrounding neighbours to become Iraqis, Afghans, Pakistanis, Turkmenis, etc. In the real world, the Zionists legally bought about 5% of the land of Palestine and ethically cleansed or exterminated the people living there to artificially create a Zionist "majority" in their new state, THAT is the crime. |
Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2012 at 05:47
I saw the whole video. Had he made any serious or valid points based on fact, historical or otherwise, (any facts at all would have been nice) as opposed to just venting his petty prejudices, I might have taken him seriously. The man is a well known Atheist and Islamophobe, although his hatreds also extend to both Jews and Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, etc. His ignorance and agenda means he is not a credible commentator, ad hominem or not, that's the truth. |
Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2012 at 05:58
Thank you, we've had 30 years of our own brand of "terrorism" so we know exactly how to handle that sort of situation. We dealt with the problem and the RAF never once had to bomb Belfast into the stone age. |
Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2012 at 10:57
"Terrorism" ?
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Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2012 at 12:14
| IRA, PIRA, RIRA, UFF, UVF, take your pick. |
Posted By: Azadi
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2012 at 12:20
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I didn't know why you put the ""s. -------------
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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 29-Nov-2012 at 13:14
This thing happened 1,400 years ago when Arabs ceptured Iran and imposed their Islamic culture on Persians, those Persians who wanted to preserve their own Zoroastrian culture had to leave Iran and migrate to India, it can be said the real Iranians are in fact these people who are known as "Parsi".
You should define this is good or bad: Another people expel me from the land where not only me but my parents and grandparents were born? It will just show your bigotry, if you say this is good for this people but bad for another people. You say it was bad about Palestians but it is already good about Israelis!! -------------
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 30-Nov-2012 at 07:58
They did. And i'm not talking about stones: in addition to homemade bombs the IRA were given rocket launchers and mortars by Gadaffi ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 30-Nov-2012 at 09:35
Sorry, I've read this several times but I'm still unclear as to what you are trying to say here. Are you accusing me of bigotry? If so, can you provide me an example of where you think I've been bigoted? AFIK the only people to impose an Islamic religion on the Persians were Persians themselves, The safavids. The Arabs were far more relaxed about it. It took 300 years or so for them to convert, and only the fanatic Zoroastrians chose to leave. There were many Zoroastrians in Muslim Iran until the 19th-20th centuries, so Islam was hardly imposed on the Persians. |
Posted By: Ince
Date Posted: 30-Nov-2012 at 21:20
| Posted a reply in a propriate thread http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28504&PID=686151#686151 - http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28504&PID=686151#686151 |
Posted By: red clay
Date Posted: 01-Dec-2012 at 13:00
Ince, I just warned el Kurdmanjo about those posts. I don't see the connection between this thread and the other.
I suggest you repost your ideas here, as they might apply to this thread.
------------- "Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces". Unknown. |
Posted By: Azita
Date Posted: 01-Dec-2012 at 18:18
Of course that is true Nick. Can i also say that the IRA were given many more weapons and funds by Americans, the parody between Israel and PIRA does seem rather similar. |
Posted By: Toltec
Date Posted: 01-Dec-2012 at 21:56
In the 80's the US was carrying out a terrorist war against central america and it relied on Ireland heavily for intelligence. Ireland's catholic bishops and cardinals had a close relationship central America's, so they gathered intelligence passed it on the Americans and got funding for the republican movement in return. ------------- Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out? http://historyplanet.wordpress.com - History Planet Website <br / |
Posted By: Ince
Date Posted: 01-Dec-2012 at 22:39
I do not wish to get involved in the arguement or anything but this might interest you.
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2012 at 09:05
Last time i went to the Imperial War Museum they had a captured IRA mortar made from a drainpipe. The bombs were tin cans filled with gunpowder from fireworks ------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2012 at 11:39
Do other people have right to expel me from my native land where my parents and grandparents were also born?
You say it was wrong about Palestinians but you support this action against Israelis, so you are bigoted. -------------
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Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2012 at 14:53
Point out to me please, where exactly in my posts I have advocated this. |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 02-Dec-2012 at 15:36
I hope I was wrong, but I read this thing from your first post about the conflict between Israelis and Palestinains:
I think it shows you support this action against Israelis, doesn't it? -------------
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Posted By: BoPoMoFo
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2012 at 00:43
I don't see how having no sympathy for Israel is automatically supporting this action against it, much less supporting the removal of every Israeli who is a second/third generation immigrant from Palestine.
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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2012 at 04:10
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I can also say I have no sympathy with the Gazans, they voted for the terrorists group of Hamas in power, so they deserved what happened against them. -------------
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Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2012 at 05:00
Does it? I think you've made a wild assumption based on a response to someone else's post based on no evidence whatsoever; there's a word for that kind of behaviour. I stand by what I wrote, I have no sympathy for either the people or the Governments they elect. The overwhelming majority of people who live in Zionist Israel by choice, do so because of their belief in the common goal of a Jews only state in its "ancient homeland" and so are, at the very least active or passive supporters of Zionism, if not outright Zionists themselves. Consequently, if Zionist Israel is really a democracy as it purports to be, then these people bear equal responsibility for the actions of their Government, do they not? |
Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2012 at 05:07
So I'm a bigot, but you are not? |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 03-Dec-2012 at 06:29
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Like the peoples of all other countries, Israelis have right to decide about their own country, the same thing can be said about Palestine, if this country is formed. The problem is that Israelis have been surrounded by enemies who share the common goal of the destruction of Israel, they have to fight against these enemies and defend their country. -------------
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Posted By: BoPoMoFo
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 04:38
If you think they deserve what happened to them, then you have gone beyond just being unsympathetic to be antagonistic. Many people have no sympathy either way; they are just indifferent. And they wouldn't be happy about either side dying.
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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 07:07
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Yes I am antagonistic against those who become happy when a terrorist attacks an Israeli school bus and kills some schoolchildren, these defenders of terrorism deserved what happen against them. There is a big deffernce between someone who wants to kill an enemy but mistakenly kills a child and someone who wants to a kill a child for tormenting the enemy. -------------
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Posted By: BoPoMoFo
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 07:16
You yourself seemed to become happy when Israeli attacked Gazan school children. And you can't tell us Israelis killed those children without knowing these killings would happen when they fired at civilian residential zones. And how do you know those killed children were happy when Palestinians killed Israeli children? You obviously can't know.
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Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 10:57
Fair point. The Zionists who support the regime in their colony in Palestine are completely culpable in the crimes against humanity perpetrated by that regime. Just as the people of Palestine are entitled to resist foreign occupation by whatever means are available to them. That they chose Hamas over the "Quisling" Fatah regime is to their credit. The problem is that the Zionist regime created and continue to maintain the "enemies" that surround them. Lebanon was never an "enemy" until the Zionists meddled in their internal politics and launched a genocidal war against them in 1978. Syria has offered peace, recognition, normalisation of relations and undertaken to absorb their Palestinian refugees since 1948 and has been constantly rebuffed. Jordan was never a threat to Zionists until they reneged on their agreement to share Palestine between them. egypt has also offered peace and recognition on several occasions leading up to 1973, it took a war against them, before the Zionists were forced to make a lasting peace with Egypt. The Zionists created Hamas to destabilise the PLO. Hamas has tried to make peace on several ocasions only to have their leaders murdered. Hezbullah was only created after the Zionist invasion of Lebanon. The Zionists need conflict in order to maintain their siege mentality and "victim" status with their gullable American ally. It's no accident that in the recent vote in the U.N. only 8 countries voted with the Zionists, everyone else has finally figured out the truth. |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 15:09
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The fact is that the Islamists are the most dangerous savage beings in the world, the region of the Middle East is the central land of these bloodthirsty people, I believe the killing of them is a great service to the humanity and we should thank to Israelis who bravely fight against them.
Of course it is better that Israelis try to not kill those poor children who are used as the human shield by the terrorists, but sometimes they have no other choice, in the corrupt society of Islamists, unfortunately these children will be the next terrorists.
 -------------
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Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 17:45
Oh Please, just stop, this is just too hilarious for words. Do you have any independant evidence that Palestinian children have carried out suicide attacks, that doesn't come from Zionist propaganda sources? |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 18:06
Indeed. But I amend your statement to include the word 'terrorists'. For in truth not every devote of Islam is a radical or anti-jewish-Semite. But those who are? Eradication. And as for their apologists and panderers....strap on a bomb and join the fight. Otherwize their cowardice is showing. Show devotion to and for the faith. And for the Hamas terrorists and Iranian masters they serve. Show concern for the poor Palistinian dupe....strap on the bomb. Remember paradise awaits. But tis isn't likely.. for the gutless remain gutless and let the dupes die. All talk but no walk. This is the curse and infamy of the Islamist terrorist apologist. No one should be suprised over that.
------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 20:47
*Yes, I hate to listen same thing (only "democracy" in the middle east) and yes, they have democracy but they use it to choose fasist nationalist leaders as palestines choose Hamas. *Killing civils with suicide attack or using high technological weapons are same. However I think you are thinking differently I hope I was wrong, but I read this thing from your post
It is same for Israel, they deserved what happened against them (both side). Don't you listen news. What did Israel do after UN decission about Palestine? New 3000 home. This completly mature behaviour like suitable for country which ruled by democracy. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20585706 - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20585706 Untill Israel go back 1967 borders, every single Hammas attack is can't be called terrorist attack. It is a guerrilla tactic. When you face very strong enemy, you attack like Hamas. you don't make open field war. Palestines have right to protect their lands. Palestine is a country and it in war situation with Israel. That's why all civil lost means war crime not terrorist attack. Hamas can attack one bomb/suicide attack in a week(?). However each built settler homes means a bomb which hits Palestine in every single moment. But you are ignoring reallity this and believe that Israel is peaceful.  Maybe you could convince me if I didn't live in Middle East.There is no black and white in here. Both of side is grey. But pushing just one side, this is so cruel. [TUBE]iRVeJRkAm8I[/TUBE] Name of the video "Please, Shut Up"
Israel is bravely fighting agaist them by this way. Destroying Olive trees. [TUBE]mDHmR59siII&NR=1&feature=endscreen[/TUBE] If Palestinians don't have any property(house, farm...), they can left their land easily. If I seem a Palestinians supporter. Don't missunderstood me. I just want all of you see Hamas and Israel are both of same and should change. ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 21:19
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''If I seem a Palestinians supporter. Don't misunderstood me. I just want all of you see Hamas and Israel are both of same and should change.'' ***/***** Nonsense.If your the former..wake up. If your a supporter...strap on a bomb...go to Gaza and put your money where your mouth is. Hiding on the fence and in the shadows earns you no points for moral courage.
------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 04-Dec-2012 at 23:16
what will you do if I look at like you "Israel=terrorism. Judist, fascist, genocidist, terrorism directed muslims in Palestine. And if you can not see that after 65 years of war and directed against a sovereign state fighting in it's self-defense."
this is real nonsence, you can do it same thing If you are a Israel Fan take a gun, go to Palestine, hunt hamas militans put your money where your mouth is. Hiding on the fence and in the shadows earns you no points for moral courage.  -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First of all there is no Hamas. If you use term Israel, you have to use term Palestine. If your the former..wake up. Both country is a sovereign state now Secondly, I think I have to repeat again "Hamas can attack one bomb/suicide attack in a week(?). However each built settler homes means a bomb which hits Palestine in every single moment." There is no terrorism in this case. There are two sovereign states which have selected goverments. This is war and if there is any civil lost(which were aimed before), that is war crime, not terrorism and of course they should judge because of it. ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 01:47
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If you are a Israel Fan take a gun, go to Palestine, hunt hamas militants put your money where your mouth is. Hiding on the fence and in the shadows earns you no points for moral courage.Already been there and done that in two different conflicts. Your too late. And I can say unequivocally and without hesitation.A. I thoroughly enjoyed eradicating and assisting others in the eradication of Islamist, fascist, terrorists. And if were recalled would do it again without a second thought.B. It took a while for you to finally come out from behind your facade of neutrality vice voiced sympathies for the dupes of Gaza. Led by the internationally recognized Hamas Terrorist group. You've been made. You deny their terrorist activities and you would counter with the same tired old crap spewn by terrorist supporters long before you were born.Your a Hamas terrorist supporter alright and no doubt a closet jew hater. No doubt in my mind. All your counter attempts, and I might add, disingenuous attempts, to sound as if you were being reasonable.
But you see that's your facade 'feigned reasonableness'. Seen to many like you before. Iow. your not new.. just another terrorist apologist perping his rhetoric. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: BoPoMoFo
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 04:00
I totally agree with you on the absurdity of this reasoning. If Big John next door wants Kate to give birth to a boy, does that mean he should fly to London, crash into Will and Kate's bedroom, kick Will off the bed, and then hump Kate? Can you say what the heck?
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Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 04:50
Leaders of a nation should favour their own nation over others, I think except Iran and a few other countries, leaders of other countries are nationalist and it is certainly a good thing but choosing dangerous terrorists as leaders is a crime.
The difference between them is their purposes, a criminal who kills people to flee is not the same as a police who tries to kill this criminal but mistakenly kills another person.
You are absolutely wrong, terrorist attacks are not the solution, do you support Kurds, if they use the same tactic in Turkey? You live in the Middle East and you know this problem doesn't exist just in Israel but all other lands where Islamists live, such as Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, ...
I see no reason that Israel is changed, fortunately, this is a powerful country and is supported by the most powerful countries in the world. -------------
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Posted By: Nick1986
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 07:00
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Challenger, be careful not to equate all Jews with Zionists. Islamism and Zionism are both forms of terrorism. The people who suffer most are the ordinary Israelis and Palestinians caught in the middle.
------------- Me Grimlock not nice Dino! Me bash brains! |
Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 08:21
LOL, relax. I’m well aware that just as All Germans weren’t Nazis and not all Nazis were German, so too not all Jewish people are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jewish. Having said that, it is an inescapable fact those who actively
choose to live in the Zionist colony in Palestine either actively or passively
support the ideology of Zionism, which makes them culpable in the atrocities
and crimes against humanity carried out by their governments in their name;
they are a democracy, after all. I’m
often in contact with Breaking the Silence, B’Tselem and other principled
Jewish groups who value truth above Zionist propaganda and lies. It may be a cliche, but I do in fact, have many Jewish friends. http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ - http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/ http://www.btselem.org/ - http://www.btselem.org/ Equally culpable are those delusional Christian Zionists, Christian Fundamentalists and politically "Right-wing" extremists who support the ideology in the hope of bringing about the “End Times” so they can all go off in a “Rapture” to meet their deity. I’m also well aware that only 40% of the world’s Jewish
population live in the Zionist colony in Palestine, 40% live in the U.S.A. and
the rest are scattered around the rest of the world, and who firmly believe that Zionists do not speak for them or their religion. I have no issue, problem with or animosity against those Jewish people who don’t support, or have rejected the vicious ideology that is Zionism, I wish them all well, especially as their numbers are growing and continue to grow. Just for the record, so there cannot be any more confusion
about me, I’m an anti-Zionist, not an anti-Semite. If anyone doesn’t understand the difference, I’d
be only too happy to explain it to them. |
Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 08:31
Me too. 
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 13:21
Nah...your the real deal alright. You merely believe like another noted above that your feigned intellectual reasonableness will give ya cover. Hence you fit here as well. And before ya even try. It's your posts and your words that betray your antisemitism. All of it. In general and specific. so....I'll say it again. "It took a while for you to finally come out from behind your facade of neutrality vice voiced sympathies for the dupes of Gaza. Led by the internationally recognized Hamas Terrorist group. You've been made. You deny their terrorist activities and you would counter with the same tired old crap spawn by terrorist supporters long before you were born. Your a Hamas terrorist supporter alright and no doubt a closet jew hater. No doubt in my mind. All your counter attempts, and I might add, disingenuous attempts, to sound as if you were being reasonable. But you see that's your facade 'feigned reasonableness'. Seen to many like you before. Iow. your not new.. just another terrorist apologist perping his rhetoric." Don't like my identification? Render a complaint to the Admin owner. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Ollios
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 17:27
Yes, many activitists all around the world, who don't support Israel's Palestine policy, all of them are terrorist supporters and all western country who blames Israel's the last acts, are terrorist supporters too. Well done Vigilis, thanks to share your excellent theory about me.
First of all, I said before I don't call them terrorist attacks. If there is something bad, that is war crime and this term does not make it true, it is still should be judge. In Kurd case, if they attack the Turkish soilder, I see it as a fight. When they hit civils, I called it terrorist attack.
Look at today reality, there is a peace agrement between Palestine and Israel, but Israel has already declared that they will build 3000 new house in West Bank and 700 more in East Jarusalem. Now who is breaking the agrement? If Palestine attack again, can you dare to blame them to break agrement? I always give to Caesar what is Caesar's. If I see something bad in Israel, I say it or good thing I say it too. Same is for Palestine. If they kidnap a soilder, I say this is war. If they attack a school, I say this is war crime.
Do you think that powerful should do every thing what he wants? Bad politics should be changed in every country, powerful or weak.
I agree. ------------- Ellerin Kabe'si var, Benim Kabem İnsandır |
Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 17:36
What's exactly your problem with Zionists? Jews have the right to live in their homeland. Ollios, Hamas is a terrorist organization for at least two reasons: 1. It attacked (Jewish) civilians 2. It terroize its own people (Israeli Arabs). ------------- |
Posted By: BoPoMoFo
Date Posted: 05-Dec-2012 at 20:13
Based on your own logic, Israel is a terrorist organization for at least two reasons: 1. It attacked (Gazan) civilians 2. It terrorize its own people (many posts in this thread demonstrate how Palestinians are essentially genetically identical to Jews).
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Posted By: Centrix Vigilis
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2012 at 03:53
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Nothing wrong with his logic...just your attempt to counter it...in an intelligent fashion. ntl...You nailed it. Your response is exactly the feigned, counter intellectual, approach a Hamas terrorist supporter would use.Well done. At least you have the nerve to id' yourself as a Hamas supporter viz your obviously supportive commentary for the Hamas terrorists. ------------- "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" S. T. Friedman Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true' |
Posted By: Challenger2
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2012 at 04:49
Jewish people, like Christians or Hindus or Muslims, in fact all human beings can live anywhere that can accept them. Zionist historiography has perverted the Torah and convinced the gullible that the ancestral “Homeland of the Jewish Race” is in Palestine, whereas historically there have been many “Jewish Homelands.” For example, the Himyarite kingdom in Arabia, the Berber kingdom of queen Kahina in the Maghreb, ancient Khazaria in the Caucasus, even the “The Pale” of central and Eastern Europe was a Jewish homeland for centuries. The Jewish Autonomous Oblast is a de facto Jewish state, so it appears Jewish people everywhere have multiple choices for a “homeland”. In recent history they were offered large tracts of Uganda, Madagascar and Argentina as homelands. They can live in Palestine for all I care, but they have no right to dispossess a native population of their homeland to do so. They have no right to oppress, murder, rape and plunder another people to do so and finally they have no right to complain when the people that they have treated so cruelly for over half a century rise up against them .
Hamas is a terrorist organisation because the American Congress chooses to say so at the behest of their Zionist paymasters and because the Zionist colonists in Palestine want it that way. The E.U. does what America says, but the rest of the world thinks otherwise. For that matter the numbers of people in the E.U. that think otherwise is also growing with every new atrocity perpetrated by the Zionist regime. |
Posted By: Cyrus Shahmiri
Date Posted: 06-Dec-2012 at 10:47
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The Zionist regime is certainly the best regime in the Middle East, as it was mentioned above, they are nationalist and respect their own people but we see the leaders of other countries in the Middle East have killed several millions of their people.
I think if the Zionists just leave the terrorist groups of Hamas and Fatah alone, they will again fight against each other and kill more terrorists and no one will complain! -------------
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