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Sanskrit and the people who spoke it?

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Centrix Vigilis View Drop Down
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  Quote Centrix Vigilis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sanskrit and the people who spoke it?
    Posted: 10-May-2011 at 01:01
Old warrior proverb: Remember there is more then one way to engage.
 
 
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

S. T. Friedman


Pilger's law: 'If it's been officially denied, then it's probably true'

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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2011 at 02:13
Originally posted by MediaWarLord

Indo-European origins: Neolithic Anatolia still the best hypothesis
 
 
 
I do agree with this, this is the best theory
 
in Pakistan for example Pashtuns and Baloch speically share many similar dna markers as west asians, In india obviously the influence indo aryans genetically is less, but culturally it is more because of hindusim
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  Quote Immchr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 03:14
For those who believe that the Aryan Migration Theory is supported by genetics, here is a link
http://www.omilosmeleton.gr/pdf/en/indology/Genetics_and_the_Aryan_Debate.pdf

Read it carefully. Clearly, there is no proof genetically, to support the Aryan Migration Theory. 
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 03:32
^ aryan migration theory to Pakistan(indus) is likely, because if the people from south asia migrated to europe or central asia, they would have all the dna markers found in south asia, but they dont.
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  Quote Immchr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 03:54
A few points mentioned in the paper are:-

1. Based on the work of US anthropologists Kenneth Kennedy, John Lukacs & Brian Hemphill, there is no case of demographic disruption in the north-west of the subcontinent between 4500 BC & 800 BC. This negates the possibility of any massive intrusion by the so-called Indo-aryans.

2. There is an extensive deep late Pleistocene genetic link between contemporary Europeans and Indians, provided by the mtDNA haplogroup U, which encompasses roughly a fifth of mtDNA lineages of both populations. The estimate for this split [between Europeans and Indians] is close to the suggested time for the peopling of Asia and the first expansion of anatomically modern humans in Eurasia and likely pre-dates their spread to Europe.

3. The ‘caucasoid’ features of south Asians may best be considered ‘pre-caucasoid’ — that is, part of a diverse north or north-east African gene pool that yielded separate origins for western Eurasian and southern Asian populations over 50,000 years ago.

4. A fundamental unity of mtDNA lineages exists in India, in spite of the extensive cultural and linguistic diversity pointing to a relatively small founding group of females in India. Most of the mtDNA diversity observed in Indian populations is between individuals within populations; there is no significant structuring of haplotype diversity by socio-religious affiliation, geographical location of habitat or linguistic affiliation.

On the maternal side at least, there is no such thing as a “Hindu” or “Muslim” genetic identity, nor even a high- or low-caste one, a North- or South-Indian one.

5. Looking at mtDNA as a whole, even the high castes share more than 80 per cent of their maternal lineages with the lower castes and tribals in India which runs counter to the invasionist thesis.

6. In 2000, twenty authors headed by Kivisild, a pioneering Estonian biologist contributed a chapter to a book on the “archaeogenetics” of Europe. The authors conclude: “We believe that there are now enough reasons not only to question a ‘recent Indo-Aryan invasion’ into India some 4000 BP, but alternatively to consider India as a part of the common gene pool ancestral to the diversity of human maternal lineages in Europe.”

7. The subcontinent’s genetic landscape was formed much earlier than the dates proposed for an Indo-Aryan immigration. The influence of Central Asia on the pre-existing gene pool was minor.  There is no evidence whatsoever to conclude that Central Asia has been necessarily the recent donor and not the receptor of the R1a lineages.

8. The sharing of some Y-chromosomal haplogroups between Indian and Central Asian populations is most parsimoniously explained by a deep, common ancestry between the two regions, with diffusion of some Indian-specific lineages northward.

9. The Y-chromosomal data consistently suggest a largely South Asian origin for Indian caste communities and therefore argue against any major influx, from regions north and west of India, of people associated either with the development of agriculture or the spread of the Indo-Aryan language family.
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  Quote Immchr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 03:59
Still, the genetic studies at present are not conclusive but they will be in the near future if God wills.
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 09:36
^ well its it is obvious to point out the aryan migration or invasion did not change the genetic, speically present day indian genetics at all, this is what the paper is pointing out and i already said this before, when aryan invaded or migrated they settled in what is now (pakistan) indus, but in even pakistan their genetic influence was very little since pakistan already had a big population at that time. aryans were not big in numbers when they came, in india of today (genetically) they had no influence at all.
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  Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-May-2011 at 10:36
 
Thanks for the detiled information, especially the reference that the various caucasoid features in the region are pre caucasoid and date back to the earliest anatomicaly modern humans.  Maybe caucasoid groups left Africa at the same time that Negritos and Australoids did.
 
Originally posted by Immchr


On the maternal side at least, there is no such thing as a “Hindu” or “Muslim” genetic identity, nor even a high- or low-caste one, a North- or South-Indian one.
I can see that there is no Hindu or muslim genetic identitity.  These religous groups exist as either majorities or minorities in all population groups on the sub continent. But... no genetic identities for north verse south?  How can one explain the differences in average physical appeareance between the two broad population groups? 
Originally posted by Immchr


Looking at mtDNA as a whole, even the high castes share more than 80 per cent of their maternal lineages with the lower castes and tribals in India which runs counter to the invasionist thesis.
Is the conclusion then:  Isolated tribal groups or ethnicities in Kashmir share 80% or more of their DNA with isolated tribal peoples in Orissa?
 
As  side note, does anybody ahve a reference to DNA commonality amongst the human population as a whole.  For example, what commonality percentage do rural south Nigerians and say, Inuit have in common? In short, an 80% plus commonality rate may still support a conclusion that the two groups are widely seperated.  
 


Edited by Cryptic - 11-May-2011 at 10:56
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