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Sanskrit and the people who spoke it?

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  Quote MediaWarLord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sanskrit and the people who spoke it?
    Posted: 29-Apr-2011 at 20:24
I don't know which children stories are you reading, but there is 0.00 % evidence in your out of India theory. 10000 years ago (8000 BCE) people in the near-east were much more advanced (agriculture) than people in India! People from the Mesopotamia introduced agriculture to the Indus valley people. Even 2000 BCE people in the northern parts of the Mesopotamia were more advanced than people in the Indus valley. Aryans from Kurdistan introduced iron smithing to the Indus valley people around 1800 BCE. These are facts!!!

Edited by MediaWarLord - 29-Apr-2011 at 20:42
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Apr-2011 at 01:00
^ here and now some hindu nationalist keep coming here, they think the whole world was invented in india
 
Personally i think the land between iraq and pakistan (indus river) is really any interesting area historically, but it doesn't even include the present day indian territory and these hindu nationlists are mad about it.
 
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2011 at 20:45
Originally posted by MediaWarLord

I don't know which children stories are you reading, but there is 0.00 % evidence in your out of India theory. 10000 years ago (8000 BCE) people in the near-east were much more advanced (agriculture) than people in India! People from the Mesopotamia introduced agriculture to the Indus valley people. Even 2000 BCE people in the northern parts of the Mesopotamia were more advanced than people in the Indus valley. Aryans from Kurdistan introduced iron smithing to the Indus valley people around 1800 BCE. These are facts!!!
 
i just reread your post, i am not sure what you are saying is true either, i am not denying their is linkage here between mesopotamia and indus, but i think your posts are kurdish nationalistic too. In Balochistan, Pakistan at mehrgarh their is evidence of farming as early as 7000 B.C, which is 9000 years ago. I agree this has nothing to do with india, because i think the culture at mehrgarh was more similar to iranic cultures then indic, there was no indic culture at that time, but i think the source of all this lies in present day (iran) from what i have studied, Jiroft Civilization in Iran seems to be one of the oldest if not the oldest civilization, I think both mespotamia and indus might be offshoot or later civilization related to Jiroft, which was older, so Iran might be the birth place of both these civilizations
 
infact watch these two videos of jiroft civilization:
 
 


Edited by balochii - 01-May-2011 at 20:51
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  Quote MediaWarLord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2011 at 21:27
Fascinating stuff!
 
I don't know, maybe it IS the first so called 'civilization'. But I doubt it. And agriculture started to be developed in northern Mesopotamia in 10th millennium BCE, 12000 years ago.
 
 
 
The archaeological evidence traces goat domestication as far back as ca. 10,500 calibrated Before Present (cal. B.P.) in the high Euphrates valleys, in Southeastern Anatolia (1–3) and 9900 to 9500 cal. B.P. in the Zagros mountains (4–7). The hypothesis of goat domestication originating in the Southern Levant (8) seems to be now excluded, and the earliest aceramic Neolithic goats in the Lower Indus valley appear to have been imported from a nearby western area (9). It is now widely recognized that the goat's wild ancestor is the bezoar, Capra aegagrus (10).
 
Kurdistan is believed to be where humans first domesticated animals and planted crops. In a scientific publication by Rice University School of Science and Technology, it was reported, "Recent archaeological finds place the beginning of agriculture before 7000 B.C. and animal domestication (mostly dogs used as hunting aids) thousands of years before that. There is some evidence that the people of Shanidar, in Kurdistan, were domesticating sheep and planting wheat as long ago as 9800 B.C."
 


Edited by MediaWarLord - 01-May-2011 at 21:34
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  Quote MediaWarLord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2011 at 21:40
The earliest production of iron originates in eastern Anatolia and southern Caucasus even before 2500 BCE.
 
"It is a dagger with an smelted iron blade and a bronze handle, found in a Hattic royal tomb dated about 2500 BC, at Alaca Höyük in northern Anatolia. The Hattic people preceded the Hittites, and were already working bronze in a sophisticated way at this time."
 
 
 
Even the metallurgy originates in Kurdistan!
 
"From about 7000 BC a few neolithic communities begin hammering copper into crude knives and sickles, which work as well as their stone equivalents and last far longer. Some of the earliest implements of this kind have been found in eastern Anatolia."
 
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  Quote MediaWarLord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2011 at 22:06
Sanskrit and Avestan are almost (for 99.99 %) the same languages. Some Kurdish dialects like Gorani are direct continuation of Avestan. That means that Kurdish is also very closely related to Sanskrit. The ergativity construction in Kurdish shows that Kurdish as an IE language is related to the Caucasian (Georgian, Abkhazian etc.) languages.
So I believe that the ancestor of Sanskrit and Avestan is from West Asia, somewhere between Caucasus and Kurdistan.
 
 


Edited by MediaWarLord - 01-May-2011 at 22:10
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  Quote MediaWarLord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-May-2011 at 22:29
Originally posted by balochii

but i think your posts are kurdish nationalistic too. In Balochistan, Pakistan at mehrgarh their is evidence of farming as early as 7000 B.C, which is 9000 years ago. I agree this has
So what, your posts are very nationalistic too. Even extreme, full of hatred toward India and her population!
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  Quote innocent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2011 at 05:43
Agree with you. Balochi has only one agenda, twist the facts and discredit India wherever and whenever he can.
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2011 at 12:58
^ what are the facts according to you? that india is the mother land of the world, i am not against indians only against indian or any other nationlistics who twist the facts to make their fantasies come true
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02-May-2011 at 13:00
Originally posted by MediaWarLord

Originally posted by balochii

but i think your posts are kurdish nationalistic too. In Balochistan, Pakistan at mehrgarh their is evidence of farming as early as 7000 B.C, which is 9000 years ago. I agree this has
So what, your posts are very nationalistic too. Even extreme, full of hatred toward India and her population!
 
show me where i have shown hatred against them? my only hatred comes when the indian or any other nationlists try to steal other people's history
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  Quote Immchr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2011 at 02:28
To MediaWarLord:

Where is the evidence of Aryan Migration in Indian Subcontinent? Since you seem to believe in it give us the evidence please.

Aryan Migration is just a theory and NOT A FACT. Is that hard to understand? THE EVIDENCE FOR IT IS NON-EXISTENT.

I gave you a link where Out Of India theory has been explained. Did you read it ? If so, please explain what is so absurd about it. If you haven't read it, I suggest you read it first http://indo-european.eu/wiki/index.php/Out_of_India_theory.

You say that in 8000 BC people in the near east were much more advanced than in India. Do you have any facts to back up this claim?

The earliest Harappan settlement is Mehrgarh according to present evidence.
 
The earliest settlement at Mehrgarh—in the northeast corner of the 495-acre (2.00 km2) site—was a small farming village dated between 7000 BC to 5500 BC.

In April 2006, it was announced in the scientific journal Nature that the oldest (and first early Neolithic) evidence in human history for the drilling of teeth in vivo (i.e. in a living person) was found in Mehrgarh.

What makes you think that in 2000 BC the people in the northern parts of mesopotamia were more advanced than people in Indus Valley ? Can you give us some evidence for that claim of yours ?

You said "Aryans from Kurdistan introduced iron smithing to the Indus valley people around 1800 BCE. These are facts!!!". Can you provide me a source for this information of yours ?
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  Quote Immchr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2011 at 02:36
Dear Balochii,

Where in my original post have I said or proposed that the whole world was invented in India? What makes you think that way?

I have only put forward points to give the clue that Aryan Migration proposed in 1500 BC is unlikely to have happened.

What I am saying is that Indo-aryans were probably the ones who created the Harappan civilization. I hope I have made myself clear.

I have nowhere even hinted that I believe India is the source of world civilization. But Aryan Migration theory is false & hence I am putting arguments opposed to that. I don't think there is any bias in it.
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  Quote innocent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2011 at 07:55
Dear Balochi, didn't mean to hurt you, but I do think you sometimes draw extreme conclusions. I think India and Pakistan has shared history, few things happened in todays pakistan and few in present India but lots were shared with each other. 

Edited by innocent - 03-May-2011 at 07:57
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  Quote medenaywe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2011 at 08:12
Conclusion looks rational to me.Huge place you have shared together till now.Why did not history also?

Edited by medenaywe - 03-May-2011 at 08:14
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2011 at 09:21
Great thread guys.  Let's keep it going like this and keep our collective cool.Wink
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote MediaWarLord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2011 at 09:48
Originally posted by Immchr

bla bla bla bla
Ok. As a Kurd I'm of an Aryan stock. My ancestors and ancestors of my ancestors were all Aryans and all native to their homeland. Even Herodotus wrote that people of Kurdistan were called Aryan by other people! Kurdish DNA proofs that we're native to our homeland.
 
Out-of-India theory doesn't make any sense and it's just a theory that nobody supports outside of the Indian continent.
 
If you don't believe in the Aryan Migration into Indus Valley, then you're saying that the Indus Valley people are not and never were Indo-Aryans! Since the ancient Aryans were spotted elsewhere outside the Indus Valley!!!
 
 
You're ignorant as hell. It's a well know fact that farming started in Kurdistan. The very FIRST neolithic farmers are from Kurdistan! I'm not even going to spent more time on it!
Also, it's a well know fact that Hittites are the people that discovered the iron.
 
About 2000 B.C. the Hittites developed Iron weaopons in northern Asia Minor, a region rich in iron.
 
 
At some point maybe around 1500 BC, the Hittites also invented a way to smelt iron; that is, a way to take iron ore from the ground and make it into useful tools and weapons.
 
  
The Hittites were the first people group to use iron, putting them into what we call an Iron Age around 1500 BC. They found a method to smelt iron, which means that they found a way to heat iron hot enough to remove its impurities.
 
 
 
 
The origins of iron-working in India:
 


Edited by MediaWarLord - 03-May-2011 at 10:00
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  Quote MediaWarLord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2011 at 09:51


Edited by MediaWarLord - 03-May-2011 at 09:54
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  Quote red clay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-May-2011 at 10:37
MediaWarLord wrote-
 
You're ignorant as hell. It's a well know fact that farming started in Kurdistan. The very FIRST neolithic farmers are from Kurdistan! I'm not even going to spent more time on it!
Also, it's a well know fact that Hittites are the people that discovered the iron.
 
 
This could be stated in a less antagonistic manner.  Be nice!!
 
Esp. when what you have stated is flat out wrong.  The step from hunter gatherers to farming is one that was taken by several cultures all about 10,000 bce.  To pin it down to one culture at any one time is ridiculous.
Particularly in an area with cultures going back as far as Gobekli Tepi.  The evidence for agriculture at Gobekli is extremely strong and predates other cultures by several thousand years.
Present genetic studies on plants known to have been domesticated early on, have shown selective breeding techniques going back 12,000 plus years.  That isn't restricted to any one geographic locale either.  There is as much evidence for plant domestication in the Americas as there is any place else.  Maize has been shown to have originated in the Americas and has been traced back to it's origins, springing from one Hybridization approx. 10,000 bce.
 
I have posted this before,Wink Old Anthropological Proverb-  Avoid absolutes,  it makes you a smaller target.Big smile
 
 
While I'm at it, I will take the time to say that this has long been my favorite forum.  This was my "stomping ground" when I first became a mod.  
I have been here when we had posters representing a wide range of views, some of them extreme in their thinking.  I have removed posts where folks were threatening to roast each others children and eat them.  I'm not joking at all.  At one time we had to have a separate set of rules, just for this sub forum.
I don't want to see a renewal of that atmosphere.  It isn't in the long term best interest of All Empires.  And it is totally unnecessary.  Being grown adults, I think we can manage better.
 
 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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  Quote MediaWarLord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2011 at 00:24
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  Quote MediaWarLord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-May-2011 at 00:31
Originally posted by red clay

I have posted this before,Wink Old Anthropological Proverb-  Avoid absolutes,  it makes you a smaller target.Big smile 
Thank you. I will remember this proverb for the future!!
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