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Sanskrit and the people who spoke it?

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ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sanskrit and the people who spoke it?
    Posted: 07-Sep-2010 at 07:23


Am J Hum Genet. 2006 Feb;78(2):202-21. Epub 2005 Dec 16.

Polarity and temporality of high-resolution y-chromosome distributions in India identify both indigenous and exogenous expansions and reveal minor genetic influence of Central Asian pastoralists.

Sengupta SZhivotovsky LAKing RMehdi SQEdmonds CAChow CELin AAMitra MSil SKRamesh AUsha Rani MV,Thakur CMCavalli-Sforza LLMajumder PPUnderhill PA.

Human Genetics Unit, Indian Statistical Institute, Kolkata, India.

Abstract

Although considerable cultural impact on social hierarchy and language in South Asia is attributable to the arrival of nomadic Central Asian pastoralists, genetic data (mitochondrial and Y chromosomal) have yielded dramatically conflicting inferences on the genetic origins of tribes and castes of South Asia. We sought to resolve this conflict, using high-resolution data on 69 informative Y-chromosome binary markers and 10 microsatellite markers from a large set of geographically, socially, and linguistically representative ethnic groups of South Asia. We found that the influence of Central Asia on the pre-existing gene pool was minor. The ages of accumulated microsatellite variation in the majority of Indian haplogroups exceed 10,000-15,000 years, which attests to the antiquity of regional differentiation. Therefore, our data do not support models that invoke a pronounced recent genetic input from Central Asia to explain the observed genetic variation in South Asia. R1a1 and R2 haplogroups indicate demographic complexity that is inconsistent with a recent single history. Associated microsatellite analyses of the high-frequency R1a1 haplogroup chromosomes indicate independent recent histories of the Indus Valley and the peninsular Indian region. Our data are also more consistent with a peninsular origin of Dravidian speakers than a source with proximity to the Indus and with significant genetic input resulting from demic diffusion associated with agriculture. Our results underscore the importance of marker ascertainment for distinguishing phylogenetic terminal branches from basal nodes when attributing ancestral composition and temporality to either indigenous or exogenous sources. Our reappraisal indicates that pre-Holocene and Holocene-era--not Indo-European--expansions have shaped the distinctive South Asian Y-chromosome landscape.

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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2010 at 12:46
Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by PakistaniShield

Originally posted by lirelou

Even taking your word that the present state of Pakistan is the home of those civilizations


How could anyone question where the indus river is or where the main cities of the IVC are found? Don't take my word for it. Look it up.

Indus is not the only river that has Archaeological remains of cities.Nearly 414 Archaeological sites were spotted on the banks of Gaggar-Hakra river(Rigvedic Saraswati) which dried up in 1900Bc
Lothal is a Harappan city of Gujarat in Sabarmati delta Lothal has the worlds firts dock dating back to 2500BC.Surkotaa,Rangpur,Kuntasi,rojdi,Prtbhas patan are all archaeological remains of towns and cities in present day gujarat.Kalibangan is a preharappan city on the banks of Gaggar Hakra,Dholavira,Kot Chiji,Balathal,Banawali,Farmana,Rakhigarhi etc are all on the banks of Saraswati.Apart from this several new archaeological sites are found out in Haryana and studies are in progress there.
But the first cities to be excavated were on thebanks of Indus like Harappa & Moenjodaroso the importance.It doesnt indicate that the civilization belonged to Pakistan as you claim..
 
To this day i have never even seen any pics of the "so called" indus valley civilization sites on Gaggar-Hakra river, from what i have heard from reliable sources that much of these sites are much after the indus valley period. Most of the great cities of indus are located in pakistan, if you go to interior sindh and punjab, people still use the same tools and still make the bricks the way indus valley people use, these interior people of punjab and sindh are the main desendants of those people, not some guy living in bengal or Tamil Nadu
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Sep-2010 at 23:18
Originally posted by balochii

Originally posted by ranjithvnambiar

Originally posted by PakistaniShield

Originally posted by lirelou

Even taking your word that the present state of Pakistan is the home of those civilizations


How could anyone question where the indus river is or where the main cities of the IVC are found? Don't take my word for it. Look it up.

Indus is not the only river that has Archaeological remains of cities.Nearly 414 Archaeological sites were spotted on the banks of Gaggar-Hakra river(Rigvedic Saraswati) which dried up in 1900Bc
Lothal is a Harappan city of Gujarat in Sabarmati delta Lothal has the worlds firts dock dating back to 2500BC.Surkotaa,Rangpur,Kuntasi,rojdi,Prtbhas patan are all archaeological remains of towns and cities in present day gujarat.Kalibangan is a preharappan city on the banks of Gaggar Hakra,Dholavira,Kot Chiji,Balathal,Banawali,Farmana,Rakhigarhi etc are all on the banks of Saraswati.Apart from this several new archaeological sites are found out in Haryana and studies are in progress there.
But the first cities to be excavated were on thebanks of Indus like Harappa & Moenjodaroso the importance.It doesnt indicate that the civilization belonged to Pakistan as you claim..
 
To this day i have never even seen any pics of the "so called" indus valley civilization sites on Gaggar-Hakra river, from what i have heard from reliable sources that much of these sites are much after the indus valley period. Most of the great cities of indus are located in pakistan, if you go to interior sindh and punjab, people still use the same tools and still make the bricks the way indus valley people use, these interior people of punjab and sindh are the main desendants of those people, not some guy living in bengal or Tamil Nadu

Your ignorance may be a blessing for you.

The names of the archaeological sites are mentioned in my posts itself.You can google and find out the details.
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2010 at 00:42
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2010 at 00:53
A link to Archaeological sites of Gujarat India

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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2010 at 00:56
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2010 at 00:59
Rakhigarhi is the largest harappan site ever found


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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2010 at 02:02
^ lol buddy i asked for pictures, not names or descriptions of the so called indus valley sites and articles written by indians, the only main indus city i know in India is "lothal" in Gujarat, but the so called sites on Gaggar-Hakra river are nothing but mud bounds or some stuff in the ground, i have never seen any pics coming out of this area that are significants and can truly tell they belong to indus, thats why non of the international scholars use the term "Gaggar-Hakra" when describing the indus valley, only hindu nationalists do.

Edited by balochii - 08-Sep-2010 at 02:05
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2010 at 04:05
If you are interested in proofs of the sites existing then what I have posted is sufficient.
If you bother to visit the links you will get the pics.But I dont think you will ever get convinced because you dont want to ,but it will be of use for others who visit the site.

I have earlier seen you calling Americans,Greek & Dutch nationals as Indian Nationalists.
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2010 at 04:23
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2010 at 04:31
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2010 at 04:36

About the conceptual lay outs and structure of Various Indus-Saraswati sites

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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2010 at 04:46
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2010 at 05:30

Kalibangan layout is linked
Kalibangan Sacrificial Fire Altar

Kalibangan



Kalibangan Fire Altars

Kalibangan Ploughed field


Kalibangan Street
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Sep-2010 at 20:05
^ two of these cities do not lie on the Ghaggar- kakra river, they lie in Rajahistan and Gujarat almost on the pakistani border.
 
only the first one does(Rakhigarhi) might lie on Ghaggar- kakra river, but it is hardly an impressive city, there is no way to authenticate that even if this belong to the Indus-valley civilization, just go read any non indian articles on it
 
 
 
 


Edited by balochii - 08-Sep-2010 at 20:06
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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 00:06
Dear balochi,
  
  I dont know what you think about yourself,but you really doesnt look like  a competant authority to give verdicts on the authenticity of what Archaeological Survey of India an Internationally accepted body specialised in Archaeology says..
And none of the above sites and the artifacts recovered needs your attestation.
the language and behavior of your posts is very well speaking about your intentions.
You are interested in claiming the ownership of a civilization which spanned in more than 5 countries
only to yourself ie pakistan ,and thats mean.


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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 10:09

no i dont reclaim ownership, however modern state of india has no right on it, indians act as if it belongs to them. The  egyptian civilization, roman civilization or greek civilization extented in many many lands aswell, but today only italy, greece and egypt claim those cvilizations, because these lands were the source of these civilizations. i dont understand why pakistan can't claim the indus civilization like these countries do, the source and 80% of the civilization lied within pakistani territory not india of today

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  Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 10:25
Originally posted by balochii

no i dont reclaim ownership, however modern state of india has no right on it, indians act as if it belongs to them. The  egyptian civilization, roman civilization or greek civilization extented in many many lands aswell, but today only italy, greece and egypt claim those cvilizations, because these lands were the source of these civilizations. i dont understand why pakistan can't claim the indus civilization like these countries do, the source and 80% of the civilization lied within pakistani territory not india of today

 
Egyptian ,Rome & Greek civilization has left nothing of it other than ruins,ie the culture and the religion is long lost.But Indus valley culture & religion is still existing in India and Pakistan doesnt have any of it.
And Regarding the ruins You are exagerrating ,There are as many sites in India as there are in Pakistan whether you accept it or not and there are ruins in other countries too.
You seem to be the only person claiming the ownership for the civilization.
I never said it belonged to India and have never seen anybody claiming so.In your attempt to paint pakistanis superior you are coming to your own conclusions.
Even if you claim the way you are doing now,I dont think world will accept it.
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  Quote balochii Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 11:31
^ lol this the hinduvita attitude and you are one of them, there is no proof at all they were the same people as modern hindus. I am glad you exposed yourself. Know no one will take you seriously
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  Quote PakistaniShield Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Sep-2010 at 20:33
Even the Sakas who were an Iranic people buried their dead.  This "hindu" ritual of burning people never had a place in ancient Indo-European culture.

The Greeks might have done it though, but they did it differently
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