Mullah got on tape when having sex

Anyway, I did not heard such absurd story and I am sure, most of muslim does not know your fantasies too. No need to enforce your fantasies to all muslims Cyrus. This is becoming more and more boring..

It is because you don't read the Quran.

Unrelated.

Originally posted by beorna Originally posted by Cyrus Shahmiri Anyway, I did not heard such absurd story and I am sure, most of muslim does not know your fantasies too. No need to enforce your fantasies to all muslims Cyrus. This is becoming more and more boring.. It is because you don't read the Quran. I know from my father-in-law, that in his fathers' youth it was not allowed for catholics to read the old testament. So perhaps good christians, good muslims and good jews don't read their holy books, but follow submissively their teachers or preachers. But as we know, they preach water and drink wine. I don't know if Cyrus is quoting the Koran correct. I tried to find my Koran, but I couldn't find it till now. Can somebody attest his story. BTW, you shall not adore your neighbours wife. A fiancee is, as far as I know, to set quite equal with a wife. So if god is making a child with Mary, the fiancee of Josef....?

How come so many elite religious leaders (the Abrahamic ones, anyway - especially the ones that preach sexual propriety the loudest) are such depraved sex fiends?

That is a horrid stereotype and the world would be much better if we rid ourselves of it.

And that's just the ones we know about, probably just the tip of the iceberg.

That's a very pessimistic attitude. You see here, the vast majority of clergy throughout the world, do uphold (as best they can) to their values and convictions. The reason you hear so much about sex scandals is because the go against the norm so egregiously. Scandals aren't scandals because they go on all the time. In classic Rome, it was not a scandal for a senator to have relations with one of his underlings because it was common practice.

Also we are geared toward sex scandals of this type because they violate a trust between those in authority and those without. Whether it be a clergyman, a teacher, a counselor, a coach or a boss, these violations tantalize us for a variety of reasons and thus they catch on with news sources. Thus there is an oversaturation of sex scandals in the media compared to how things actual operate.

Mind you I am no way minimizing the abuse done by authority figures, as they should receive their due justice, however what I am saying is that it is improper to assume that behaviors that have widespread coverage are widespread in practice.

BTW, you shall not adore your neighbours wife. A fiancee is, as far as I know, to set quite equal with a wife.

Um...not quite, a fiancee in religious terms is not equal at all to a wife. Without matrimony they are not united as one flesh and one spirit. Thus it is a less sinful practice to cheat with someone else's girlfriend or fiancee than it is to cheat with someone's wife.

So if god is making a child with Mary, the fiancee of Josef....?

Also you are incorrectly inferring that God "made" Jesus with Mary. Mary although being the holiest woman to ever live, had nothing to do with the incarnation of Jesus. Jesus was all ready fully created at all times and it was only God's choice of Mary that he chose her to bring Jesus into the world. God never had relations with Mary, he never "impregnated" her with his seed. Jesus just came into being by the will of God inside of Mary, and even if she was married to Joseph there would still be no sin, because it is in accordance with the will of God.

Oh and before I forget here is the Quran passage in English that Cyrus is referring to.

(Someone edit this if I am incorrect or a more accurate translation exists).

Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, "Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and you hid inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim. Thus, you feared the people, when you were supposed to fear only GOD. When Zeid was completely through with his wife, we had you marry her, in order to establish the precedent that a man may marry the divorced wife of his adopted son. GOD's commands shall be done.

Just out of curiosity....

Edited by Cryptic - 31-Oct-2008 at 16:32

Originally posted by JanusRook Oh and before I forget here is the Quran passage in English that Cyrus is referring to. (Someone edit this if I am incorrect or a more accurate translation exists). Recall that you said to the one who was blessed by GOD, and blessed by you, "Keep your wife and reverence GOD," and you hid inside yourself what GOD wished to proclaim. Thus, you feared the people, when you were supposed to fear only GOD. When Zeid was completely through with his wife, we had you marry her, in order to establish the precedent that a man may marry the divorced wife of his adopted son. GOD's commands shall be done.

Can you name any other sort of organization that's been hit with so many high profile suits alleging sex abuse, some of them involving hundreds of plaintiffs?

Not legal suits but in Tibetan buddhism it is noted that pedophilia was widespread.

Young Tibetan boys were regularly taken from their families and brought into the monasteries to be trained as monks. Once there, they became bonded for life. Tashì-Tsering, a monk, reports that it was common practice for peasant children to be sexually mistreated in the monasteries. He himself was a victim of repeated childhood rape not long after he was taken into the monastery at age nine. Source

Also:
Baptists-----
Jehovah's Witnesses----
Teachers----
Jewish Rabbis----

Also Catholic abuse scandals tend to be over represented. As this site shows, over 5 decades there have been 10,000 accusations. Which I will say is a lot but only 80% of all accusations are found to be strongly likely, so even if you count undocumented (and why would you stay undocumented after the scandals is beyond my understanding). Then you still have 200 cases every year but during this time you also have 110,000 priests in operation. When it's all said in done only 4% of the priest population engaged in molestation.

The reason that that number is higher than the general population is because of five things:

Churches are uniquely vulnerable to sexual misconduct and abuse charges because of: 1. Trust — Churches tend to be trusting and unsuspecting institutions. Even when questions are raised about a worker's conduct, church leaders may ignore the evidence rather than question the worker's character or motives. 2. Lack of Screening — Some churches do nothing to "screen" youth or children's workers. Complete strangers may be accepted to work with children without any investigation. 3. Opportunity — Churches provide ample opportunity for unsupervised, close, personal contact between adults and children. This risk increases dramatically for overnight activities. 4. Access — Molesters are often attracted to an institution in which they have immediate access to potential victims in an atmosphere of complete trust, such as the church. 5. Need — Most churches struggle to get adequate help for children's and youth ministries. Securing workers can be a never-ending task. However, the personnel committee or age division director must adhere to the policies of the church regarding employees or volunteers.

A single Catholic organization here in Canada has been hit with over 2000 sex abuse lawsuits!

Because every lawsuit is representative of a guilty plea....

The practice was systematic in elements of the movement, and attempts to evade responsibility were highly organized, with assets being transferred to offshore religious organizations to escape payment, orchestrated campaigns of denial, and so on.

Yes that's right, forgive the Church for being an organ of mercy and redemption. There was no attempt to evade responsibility it was a misinformed leadership that had a problem that they had never dealt with before using systems that had been successful in the past with different transgressions of the clergy.

Again I ask is an accusation proof of foul conduct. Perhaps they denied because they were innocent. You certainly don't know so don't presume guilt in their cases. Granted a guilty party will in the vast majority of the time proclaim innocence but you can't just presume that because one priest or a thousand priests are guilty that every single one of them is.

And removing money to offshore accounts, as long as nothing was illegal I do not see the problem in this. It is anyone's right to protect themselves in any way they can. Besides you will not find me seeing justice in many of the punitive and outright vindictive monetary awards given to victims. There is no price for a persons innocence or dignity, the only thing that would be just would be to do everything to repair the damage done. Have the church pay for counseling and psychiatric care, have them make a public apology and allow them the chance to set up systems that can prevent future behavior. Don't have them hand you hundreds of thousands of dollars in "pain and suffering" damages, because when you do that you deprive children of an education, you deprive the homeless meals and shelters and mostly you unfairly place a burden on parishes that may not have anything to do with sex scandals to tighten their belt for no other reason then to fatten someone else's pockets.


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You never find the word "divorced" in this ayat, I think it has been added either by you or someone who has translated it.

Well then post the correct form of the verse Cyrus.

Hello Cryptic

Cyrus Answering Islam is a website that attacks Islam, it is not a site to be used for information.