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Leonidas
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Topic: Georgia:Russia has invaded and we are under attack Posted: 19-Aug-2008 at 12:12 |
Bankotsu, its annoying enough to have dozens of links to articles with no meaningful input, don't even think of posting any more off topic reports like the two i have hidden in this thread.
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Leonidas
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Posted: 19-Aug-2008 at 12:18 |
Originally posted by Anton
Originally posted by Leonidas
Azerbijan also just lost a land link to NATO, so that northern foothold over tehran got much weaker
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I didn't understand. Why do you think Azerbijan does not support NATO anymore? |
didnt say that, they lost a land link to Turkey making it that much harder for NATO to support them or the other way around. Not impossible just harder
Originally posted by Kerimoglu
Azerbaijan has never supported any of those,
government is ok with oil money and does not want to get into more
trouble, rather stealing the money
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Azerbaijan is aligned with Georgia, Israel, US, UK and Turkey.
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Styrbiorn
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Posted: 19-Aug-2008 at 12:25 |
Originally posted by Anton
Good example is actions of peace-keepres in Srebrenica. There were no action at all. Did you expect Russians to behave in a similar manner? Or you suggest they shoud have peacefully disarm Georgian troops? How would you expect this to be done? They were well trained and armed by some NATO countries and their disarming wouldn't be bloodless anyway.
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Srebrenica is among the absolute worst peacekeeping actions that ever happened, so it's hardly a smart example to make. The Russians shouldn't have made the situation escalate in the first place. Stopping the Ossetian rebels shelling Georgia prior to the war might have prevented it for example. Instead they armed them - therein lies my biggest objections against them.
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Bankotsu
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Posted: 19-Aug-2008 at 12:33 |
What about Georgians shelling South Ossetia?
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Anton
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Posted: 19-Aug-2008 at 12:38 |
Originally posted by Styrbiorn
Srebrenica is among the absolute worst peacekeeping actions that ever happened, so it's hardly a smart example to make.
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It is certainly not representative but best fits my argumentation
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Anton
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Posted: 19-Aug-2008 at 12:45 |
Originally posted by Leonidas
didnt say that, they lost a land link to Turkey making it that much harder for NATO to support them or the other way around. Not impossible just harder
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Maybe you are right. But it might happen that situation around Georgia will actually increase NATO presence in the region although not officially. Which will strengthen the link you are talking about.
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pikeshot1600
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Posted: 19-Aug-2008 at 14:16 |
Originally posted by Bankotsu
Originally posted by pikeshot1600
Longer term, the US should focus on the rivalry between Iran and Russia in the Caspian region. As discussed in other threads, the US can contain Iran in the Persian Gulf, and there is no reason to escalate anything further than where it is now. With Iran unable to extend influence south into the Gulf, the only other direction she can go is north....where Russian interests lie.
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pikeshot, do you think it is a good strategy for USA to make peace with Iran and then push it north against Russia?
Iran is unsecured in the gulf, but if USA makes peace with Iran there, Iran can concentrate its attention elsewhere.
USA can turn Iran north against Russia.
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I doubt that Iran is "pushable" by the US. However, Iran must control energy resources to be a power. That said, with demand rising and output beginning to decrease, Iran seems to have little choice but to extend her influence either south, where she cannot expel the US, or north, where she will encounter Russian presence and vital interests. Who can say when that might be, but five years, or ten years may be a good guess.
The US remaining aloof from this possible conflict is perhaps the best policy. Staying out of Russia's sphere in this region is (IMHO) more likely to be in US interests. If the fur flies, we are out of it, and they can contest their own interests.
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Sarmat
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Posted: 20-Aug-2008 at 06:00 |
Originally posted by Styrbiorn
The Russians shouldn't have made the situation escalate in the first place. Stopping the Ossetian rebels shelling Georgia prior to the war might have prevented it for example. Instead they armed them - therein lies my biggest objections against them.
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Shellings have been there continuosly from 1991, mostly from the Georgian part.
Russians did everything to stop the escalation. In any case all the Ossetian separatists weapons were much inferior to the Georgians ones. There was a belief in peacekeeping effort and reasonableness of both parties.
However, one party acted unreasonably
Edited by Sarmat12 - 20-Aug-2008 at 06:00
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Σαυρομάτης
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Bankotsu
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Posted: 21-Aug-2008 at 05:43 |
Moscow Is Likely to Recognize Breakaway Republics in Georgiahttp://online.wsj.com/article/SB121923076375956371.htmlBargaining ploy for Kosovo issue?
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Roberts
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Posted: 21-Aug-2008 at 09:53 |
Better annex them in Russian federation for good. While independent Abhazia could show some signs of working economy, S. Osetia would be total disaster, it wouldn't be able to exist without Russian donations making some 80% or more of their budget.
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Styrbiorn
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Posted: 21-Aug-2008 at 10:04 |
Originally posted by Sarmat12
Originally posted by Styrbiorn
The Russians shouldn't have made the situation escalate in the first place. Stopping the Ossetian rebels shelling Georgia prior to the war might have prevented it for example. Instead they armed them - therein lies my biggest objections against them.
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Shellings have been there continuosly from 1991, mostly from the Georgian part.
Russians did everything to stop the escalation. In any case all the Ossetian separatists weapons were much inferior to the Georgians ones. There was a belief in peacekeeping effort and reasonableness of both parties.
However, one party acted unreasonably |
Sorry, but Russia has a major part in this mess. They have been handing out passports in Abchazia and Ossetia to anyone who would take it, and then used it as an excuse to invade a foreign country. The Georgians aren't blameless, but they had all the right to defend themselves against the Russian aggression. They got desperate and did exactly what the Russian leadership wanted them to do. The Russian government is currently doing the same thing in Ukraine - handing out passports. Again, Georgia isn't free of blame, but it's preposterous to claim that "Russians did everything to stop the escalation", when their actions is showing the very opposite.
Edited by Styrbiorn - 21-Aug-2008 at 10:06
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Anton
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Posted: 21-Aug-2008 at 11:25 |
Originally posted by Styrbiorn
Sorry, but Russia has a major part in this mess. They have been handing out passports in Abchazia and Ossetia to anyone who would take it, and then used it as an excuse to invade a foreign country. The Georgians aren't blameless, but they had all the right to defend themselves against the Russian aggression. They got desperate and did exactly what the Russian leadership wanted them to do. The Russian government is currently doing the same thing in Ukraine - handing out passports. Again, Georgia isn't free of blame, but it's preposterous to claim that "Russians did everything to stop the escalation", when their actions is showing the very opposite.
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There was a discussion about the passport issue already. Abhazians and Ossetians were against Georgian independence from Soviet Union and considered themselves as SU citizens. Later on, after SU fall, Russia became a descendant of all SU issues, including citizenships and debts. All SU citizens automatically became Russian citizens if they didn't choose another citizenship. Abhazians and Ossetians didn't.
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Bankotsu
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Posted: 22-Aug-2008 at 02:05 |
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Bankotsu
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Posted: 23-Aug-2008 at 07:53 |
Russia's first Georgia move legitimate: U.S. envoyhttp://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM
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Bankotsu
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Posted: 26-Aug-2008 at 13:19 |
Russia recognizes Georgia's breakaway republicshttp://en.rian.ru/russia/20080826/116286788.htmlAh, the plot thickens! What will USA do next? Use kosovo as bargaining chip? NKorea says it halts denuclearisation over row with US http://www.spacewar.com/reports/NKorea_says_it_halt
Nice timing by DPRK.
You almost thought they planned this move with Russia, slap USA with a two hit combo.
Now USA have to deal with these two actions at the same time.
Edited by Bankotsu - 26-Aug-2008 at 13:50
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Roberts
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Posted: 26-Aug-2008 at 14:26 |
Thats really nice, too bad for Abhazians and Osetinians - they will have to change their passport again .
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Bankotsu
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Posted: 27-Aug-2008 at 13:54 |
Georgia threatens to sever all ties with Russiahttp://en.rian.ru/world/20080827/116319216.htmlGeorgia Planned to Capture Abkhazia in 2 Days http://www.kommersant.com/p-13136/Abk
Russia Disturbed U.S. Caucasus Plans http://www.kommersant.com/p-13134/Russian analyst points to link between Georgian attack and Iranhttp://en.rian.ru/russia/20080827/11631
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Styrbiorn
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Posted: 27-Aug-2008 at 14:04 |
May I kindly suggest to open a "News" thread instead of spamming articles without comments in every thread? That way those who want to discuss and those who want to read news but are too lazy to find them on their own can all have enjoy
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