Georgia:Russia has invaded and we are under attack
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Topic: Georgia:Russia has invaded and we are under attack
Posted By: Bankotsu
Subject: Georgia:Russia has invaded and we are under attack
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 15:34
Georgia: Russia has invaded and we are under attackVladimir Putin says the war has started Friday, 8 August 2008
javascript:launchPopup%28http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/georgia-russia-has-invaded-and-we-are-under-attack-13934899.html?action=Popup&gallery=no,,%20670,%20693,%20true,%20true,%20true,%20false%29;">
Members of the Georgian Commando Battalion move into position during a night raid exercise at a training range in 2002
A convoy of Russian tanks and troops is reportedly moving toward South Ossetia's capital as Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin declared that the war has started. Putin's spokesman Dmitry Peskov said: "War started today in South Ossetia when Georgia attacked Russian peacekeepers in the disputed region." Earlier an official in Georgia's National Security Council said Russia invaded Georgia. Kakha Lamaia said: "If it's not war, then we are very close to it. The Russians have invaded Georgia and we are under attack." Georgian President Mikhail Saakasvili told CNN: "Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory." "This is a clear intrusion on another country's territory. We have Russian tanks on our territory, jets on our territory in broad daylight," Saakashvili accused its neighbor of a "well-planned invasion" and called on reservists to sign up for duty. He said "150 Russian tanks, armoured personnel carriers and other vehicles" have entered South Ossetia. The Georgian government said it will try to protect Russian peacekeepers who were already in the disputed region. However Russia claims that 10 of the peacekeepers have been killed. Reports from Georgia claim Russian jets have attacked an airport near Tblisi. Nato, the US and the EU are calling for an immediate end to hostilities. Georgia claims to have shot down two Russian war planes as the two countries fight for control of the breakaway province of South Ossetia. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has vowed to protect Russian citizens in the region. Medvedev said: "In accordance with the constitution and the federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect the lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located," Mr Medvedev said in televised remarks... http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/georgia-russia-has-invaded-and-we-are-under-attack-13934899.html - http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/georgia-russia-has-invaded
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Replies:
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 16:22
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Strange name of the thread since Georgia openly recongized that it started the war in violation of all the agreements with Ossetians. Nice move from the criminal Georgian regime on the first day of the Olympics.
Now they invent disgusting stories that "Russia has invaded."
 Georgian butchers already killed several hundred civiliand in Tshinvali and according to Ossetian reports they are finishing up wounded Ossetian civillians and peackeepers. ------------- Σαυρομάτης 
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Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 16:42
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Hello Sarmat The Russians have been yelling and screaming for years about teeritorial integrity and the need to supress separtist movements and demonstrated this by its vehement opposition to Kosovo's independence, yet surprisingly all this disappears when it comes to Ossetia and Abkhazia and now these become legitimate movements and it gives them full support, and it still opposes Kosovo so could explain because I am perplexed here?
Al-Jassas |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 16:46
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Russia did not say they will support south ossetia independence. That is consistent with their position with regards to Kosovo. |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 16:47
Russian troops near S.Ossetia capital, 10 peacekeepers killedhttp://en.rian.ru/russia/20080808/115903809.html - http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080808/115903809.htmlMedvedev orders humanitarian aid for South Ossetiahttp://en.rian.ru/world/20080808/115904228.html - http://en.rian.ru/world/20080808/115904228.html |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 16:59
I don't know what they have officially said regarding Abhazia and South Ossetia. But all this time they have certainly prevented them to be become fully part of Georgia state. I smell hypocrisy. |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:02
| Actually the situation with Serbia/Kosovo is different from Georgia/Abhazia/South Ossetia. |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:04
| You forgot to mention two important regions too, namely Chechnya and Transnistria. |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:09
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Chechnya? What about Nagorno-Karabakh? |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:10
Russia always supported territorial integrity of Georgia. Numerous requests from Abkhazia and Southern Ossetia to officially recognize them were denied.
Russia didn't have any desire to recognize such separatist entities.
However, recent actions by Georgia created complitely different situation. Georigia just solemnly announced that it would not start hostilities, Georgia promised that all the contraidtions will be resolved in "peacfull manner." Yet it started full scale attack. Moreover, it just cold bloodedly attacked complitely destroyed a small base of the Russian peacekeepers without provocation. 10 Russian peacekeepers are confirmed dead. If Georgian regime expected Russia to be silent after such acts of aggression it made a big mistake. Now they will feel all the complications of the situations they have created. Their "blietzkruig" has already failed anyway. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Menumorut
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:12
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Transnistria is not a conflict region. The Moldavians are so much russified that they don't think to attact the separatists.
And that was never a Romanian/Moldavian territory up to the Soviet attribution to the former republic of Moldavia. It was just a crazy decision of Stalin who played with the pencil on the map, choping parts of Bessarabia and Bukovina and giving them to Ukraina and choping a smaller part from Ukraina to give it to Moldavia. Moldavians are an apatic people, they will prefer to leave Transnistria to separatists. -------------  |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:14
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Not to mention Kosovo declaring independence, violating international law and UN resolutions. Russia stepped up relations with South Ossetia after that move. |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:14
What about it? Have they started rebellion against Russia? |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:16
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Nagorno-Karabakh rebel against Russia? It's not russian territory. |
Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:16
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If they respect the territorial integrity of Georgia then why in god's name they declared war on georgia?
And the situation isn't different between Abkhazia and ossetia and that of Kosovo, actually georgia have more legitimate claim on both nations,particularly ossetia, than Serbia's claim on Kosovo.
Al-Jassas
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Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:18
Cause they killed russian troops maybe?
That is an argument that is new to me. |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:21
Georgian army moves to retake South OssetiaBy MUSA SADULAYEV – 56 minutes ago DZHAVA, Georgia (AP) — Georgia launched a major military offensive Friday to retake the breakaway province of South Ossetia, prompting Moscow to send tanks into the region in a furious response that threatens to engulf Georgia, a staunch U.S. ally, and Russia in all-out war. Hundreds were reported dead in the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won defacto independence in a war against Georgia that ended in 1992. Witnesses said the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali was devastated. "I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars," said Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, who had fled with her family to Dzhava, a village near the border with Russia. "It's impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged." The fighting broke out as much of the world's attention was focused on the start of the Olympic Games and many leaders, including Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Bush, were on their way to Beijing. The timing suggests Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili may have been counting on surprise to fulfill his longtime pledge to wrest back control of South Ossetia — a key to his hold on power. Saakashvili agreed the timing was not coincidental, but accused Russia of being the aggressor. "Most decision makers have gone for the holidays," he said in an interview with CNN. "Brilliant moment to attack a small country." South Ossetian separatist leader Eduard Kokoity claimed hundreds of civilians had been killed. Ten Russian peacekeepers were killed and 30 wounded when their barracks were hit in Georgian shelling, said Russian Ground Forces spokesman Col. Igor Konashenkov. Russia has soldiers in South Ossetia as peacekeeping forces but Georgia alleges they back the separatists. Georgia, which borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of the Soviet Union. The country has angered Russia by seeking NATO membership — a bid Moscow regards as part of a Western effort to weaken its influence in the region. Speaking earlier on Georgian television, Saakashvili accused Russia of sending aircraft to bomb Georgian territory, which Russia denied. Russia's Defense Ministry said it was sending reinforcements for its peacekeepers, and Russian state television and Georgian officials reported a convoy of tanks had crossed the border. The convoy was expected to reach the provincial capital, Tskhinvali, by evening, Channel One television said. Georgian State Minister for Reintegration Temur Yakobashvili said government troops were now in full control of the city. "We are facing Russian aggression," said Georgia's Security Council chief Kakha Lomaya. "They have sent in their troops and weapons and they are bombing our towns." Putin has warned that the Georgian attack will draw retaliation and the Defense Ministry pledged to protect South Ossetians, most of whom have Russian citizenship. Chairing a session of his Security Council in the Kremlin, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev also vowed that Moscow will protect Russian citizens. "In accordance with the constitution and federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located," Medvedev said, according to Russian news reports. "We won't allow the death of our compatriots go unpunished." An AP reporter saw tanks and other heavy weapons concentrating on the Russian side of the border with South Ossetia — supporting the Russian TV reports of an incursion. Some villagers were fleeing into Russia. "I saw them (the Georgians) shelling my village," said Maria, who gave only her first name. She said she and other villagers spent the night in a field and then fled toward the Russian border as the fighting escalated. Yakobashvili said Georgian forces have shot down four Russian combat planes over Georgian territory. He gave no details. Russia's Defense Ministry denied an earlier Georgia report about one Russian plane downed and has had no immediate comment on the latest claim. Yakobashvili said that one Russian plane had dropped a bomb on the Vaziani military base near the Georgian capital, but no one was hurt. More than 1,000 U.S. Marines and soldiers were at the base last month to teach combat skills to Georgian troops. Georgia has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain. The White House on Friday urged Russia and Georgia to peacefully resolve their dispute over South Ossetia. "We urge restraint on all sides — that violence would be curtailed and that direct dialogue could ensue in order to help resolve their differences," White House spokeswoman Dana Perino told reporters. NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said he was seriously concerned about the fighting and that the alliance is closely following the situation. South Ossetia officials said Georgia attacked with aircraft, armor and heavy artillery. Georgian troops fired missiles at Tskhinvali, an official said, and many buildings were on fire. Georgia's president said Russian aircraft bombed several Georgian villages and other civilian facilities. "A full-scale aggression has been launched against Georgia," Saakashvili said in a televised statement. He also announced a full military mobilization with reservists being called into action. A senior Russian diplomat in charge of the South Ossetian conflict, Yuri Popov, dismissed the Georgian claims of Russian bombings as misinformation, the RIA-Novosti news agency reported. Russia's Defense Ministry denounced the Georgian attack as a "dirty adventure." "Blood shed in South Ossetia will weigh on their conscience," the ministry said in a statement posted on its Web site. Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev later chaired a session of his Security Council in the Kremlin, vowing that Moscow will protect Russian citizens. "In accordance with the constitution and federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located," Medvedev said, according to Russian news reports. "We won't allow the death of our compatriots go unpunished." Saakashvili long has pledged to restore Tbilisi's rule over South Ossetia and another breakaway province, Abkhazia. Both regions have run their own affairs without international recognition since splitting from Georgia in the early 1990s and built up ties with Moscow. Relations between Georgia and Russia worsened notably this year as Georgia pushed to join NATO and Russia dispatched additional peacekeeper forces to Abkhazia. The Georgian attack came just hours after Saakashvili announced a unilateral cease-fire in a television broadcast late Thursday in which he also urged South Ossetian separatist leaders to enter talks on resolving the conflict. Georgian officials later
blamed South Ossetian separatists for thwarting the cease-fire by
shelling Georgian villages in the area. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hV2N6fVKS5slf10A13Dj_uIdaZ4QD92E6BSO0 - http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hV2N6fVKS5slf10A13Dj_uIdaZ4QD92E6BSO0 |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:21
Then What Russian troops are doing in Georgia if the Russia respects territorial integrity of Georgia? |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:24
MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti military commentator Ilya Kramnik) - The very real possibility of full-scale war between Georgia and South Ossetia raises questions about its possible outcome. At present, the Georgian armed forces have more than 30,000 men, including 20,000 ground forces. They are equipped with more than 200 tanks, including 40 T-55s and 165 T-72s, which are currently being upgraded. Apart from tanks, the ground forces have 200 combat armored vehicles, including about 180 infantry combat vehicles and armored personnel carriers (APCs). The ground troops can receive artillery support from 120 artillery pieces of 122 mm-152 mm caliber, 40 multiple-launch rocket systems, and 180 mortars. The Georgian Air Force is equipped with five Su-25 (Frogfoot) close support aircraft, 15 L-29 and L-39 combat training aircraft, which can be used as light assault planes, and 30 helicopters, including eight MI-24 attack helicopters. Available estimates put the South Ossetian forces at a mere 2,500 officers and men, or 16,000, including reservists. They are armed with 15 T-55 and T-72 tanks, 24 Gvozdika and Akatsiya self-propelled artillery units, 12 D-30 towed howitzers, six multiple-launch rocket systems, four 100-mm Rapir anti-tank weapons, and more than 30 mortars. In addition, the South Ossetian army has 22 infantry combat vehicles, 24 APCs, and six combat patrol vehicles. The infantry is equipped with small arms of Soviet or Russian make, and has several dozen Fagot and Konkurs anti-tank rocket systems. Its air force consists of four MI-8 multi-purpose transport helicopters. South Ossetia can defend itself against air attacks with four to six Osa, three Tunguska, three Shilka, and six Strela-10 air defense rocket systems. It also has 12 23-mm ZU-23/2 twin antiaircraft guns (some of which are mounted on GAZ-66 trucks), and up to 100 Igla and Strela man-portable air-defense missiles. A forecast of the outcome of this war (as well as a potential conflict with Abkhazia) cannot be based on mathematics alone. In the mountains, even a very small unit can resist a numerically much stronger enemy. In this case, the outcome of the conflict will primarily depend on the training of forces and the influence of third parties. The training of the Georgian army is not likely to have changed much in the last two months and, with the exception of a few units, it is not rated too high. Like the Abkhazian armed forces, South Ossetian armies are better trained and motivated. Moreover, the Abkhazian leader has already expressed readiness to support South Ossetia in a war against Georgia. Georgia can win only if it is backed by the United States and its other allies. And even with such support, its victory will mean heavy losses, and entail lengthy guerilla warfare. http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080808/115905108.html - http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080808/115905108.html |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:25
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Georgia has recently |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:27
I think Russian troops in south ossetia is to deter a Georgian invasion of south ossetia. Looks like that failed. |
Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:27
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Ossetia has always been part of georgia and georgian tribes lived there way back to the Arab conquests who mentioned nothing about any other nationality. Ossetians came late during the Ottoman and Russian rule and lived in those regions deserted by ordinary georgians. Abkhazia on the other hand was mixed region and more georgians lived there than abkhazians and all of them are now living as refugees kicked out of their homes with the help of Russia.
As for Russia supporting georgian claims, well actions say the opposite, whenever georgia wanted to consolidate its rule russia threatened with retaliation, that is we fully support your right to own your house but if somebody came and kicked you out don't dare defend yourself because we will hurt you?
Al-Jassas
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Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:30
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Only Russia Can Save South Ossetia From Humanitarian Catastrophe
A fear of war has increased in South Ossetia in recent days. Practically each night the capital of the breakaway republic, Tskhinvali, and other areas come under Georgian fire. On 4 August the South Ossetian Interior Ministry made an announcement saying that Georgia had placed D-30 howitzers and two artillery batteries in the conflict zone. Georgia‘s Defense Ministry said it was going to introduce troops to the border but we know perfectly well the cost of such announcements. In an interview with ITAR-TASS news agency, Vladimir Ivanov, aide to the Chief of the Mixed Peacekeeping Forces, was quoted as saying that “currently the situation in the conflict zone remains tense and yet there is no even a slightest sign of reconciliation”. Although the night on August the 5th was relatively calm, of course this is an illusion. Probably, Georgia had nothing to do but make a pause in its military campaign against South Ossetia after counting the victims among the officers. Russia‘s Channel One broadcast an interview with the South Ossetian Security Council Secretary Anatoly Barankevich, who said that Georgia had lost 29 officers in skirmished. He confirmed the authenticity of information but added that the official Tbilisi would naturally deny everything. According to some media, Georgia imposed an information blockade on its mass media. The truth about the number of victims is concealed, all the fact are distorted, although the issue is much rumored in Tbilisi. Apart from this, Georgia did no dare to continue its aggressive policy after it had been strongly criticized by Russia, the breakaway republic of Abkhazia and the whole North Caucasus. Besides, the Minister of State for Reintegration of Georgia, Temur Yakobashvili, paid a visit to South Ossetia to launch talks with the leaders of the unrecognized republic. Apparently, it was an attempt to use methods of shuttle diplomacy to correct the mistakes of the military campaign. Yet there can be some other explanations: Georgia could have been thinking of improving its image abroad by putting forward such ‘peace initiatives’. But Mr. Yakobashvili was not welcomed by South Ossetian President Eduard Kokoity and thus failed to bring Mikheil Saakashvili‘s message home to the opponents. So, Georgian aggression may now enter a new phase. On the whole, Tbilisi has succeeded in sustainable implementation of its plan. The Georgian army managed to occupy its positions in the border area and place a battalion of long-range artillery. Snipers seized control over the heights surrounding Tskhinvali. Yet it is unclear whether the Georgian soldiers are ready to die for this control. Saakashvili hopes for a blitzkrieg, otherwise his initiative will hardly be popular among the people. Everything which is currently going on in the conflict zone, was initiated from abroad. Recently Georgia and U.S. have had joint military exercises in Vaziani. The maneuvers, symbolically dubbed as “Immediate Response”, gave a powerful impulse to Georgian aggression: President Saakashvili (and Russia) were given to understand who and how would help Georgia in case of a war in the Caucasus. What else does the official Tbilisi do to implement this imposed plan? Georgia tried hard to provoke Russia`s aggressive response, but all it was in vain. The Russian peacekeepers, their positions in the region regularly attacked, had to do nothing but to confirm unannounced military actions. However, Tbilisi has enough reasons to change the format of negotiations since Russia had increased the number of peacekeepers in the conflict zone and its planes carried out flight above South Ossetia (formally Georgian territory). Besides, the Mixed Peacekeeping Forces failed to improve the situation without using force against an aggressor. Now Georgia`s main goal is to persuade the international community to press Russia over the issue and invite Ukrainian or the Baltic peacekeepers to monitor the situation in the region. Kiev has repeatedly announced its readiness to replace Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia. That is why Tbilisi insists on direct talks with Russia. According to Temur Yakobashvili, the work of the Mixed Control Commission (MCC) had already caused a tragedy as people were dying in the conflict zone, their houses destroyed. “That is why, if Ossetia insists on the same format of peacekeeping activity, it would be immoral”, he said. If the MCC, comprising Russia, Georgia, South Ossetia and the Republic of North Ossetia-Alania, no longer takes part in the negotiations, it would mean that Russia is deprived of any rights to influence the situation. If Tbilisi manages to prove to the EU and US that the work of the MCC is ineffective, it would be an hour of triumph for the “hawk diplomats”. But what is especially annoying about all this is that Georgia contributed greatly to a humanitarian catastrophe South Ossetia is about to face these days. Wikipedia, the biggest multilingual free-content encyclopedia on the Internet, describes a humanitarian catastrophe as a situation when a society faces a threat of extinction due to starvation, violence, epidemics, caused by a war, and also due to the loss of moral orienteers. Unfortunately, the situation in Tskhinvali and the suburbs matches the description in full. But there is an important remark- South Ossetia is facing a humanitarian catastrophe because of a purposed implementation of aggressive policy by the Georgian authorities. So, the breakaway republic can resort to the so-called ‘humanitarian intervention’ against Georgia. A prominent lawyer K. Greenwood characterized this kind of intervention as a “measure aimed at preventing death of a nation”. It also means that South Ossetia can use diplomatic and economic means to press on Georgia. Here are some facts to prove the reality of a humanitarian catastrophe in South Ossetia: - Bombardment of the territories leading to casualties among the civilians. On August, 4, Georgian armed groups attacked a funeral procession in the village of Mugut in the Znaur district of South Ossetia. - Aimed sniper fire of a hospital in Tskhinvali - Shortage of fresh water. Officials of the Mixed Peacekeeping Forces and the OSCE, together with a group of Georgian and South Ossetian ecologists, monitored the quality of water at the Edis-Tskhinval water pipe and reported 61 cases of illegal water siphoning. That is Tskhinvali is receiving 75% less water than needed. - A mass exodus of women and children from the conflict zone to North Ossetia and other republics of the North Caucasus. According to the Federal Border Guard Service of Russia, over the past few days 1500 women and children crossed the border and entered the territory of North Ossetia. It is worth mentioning that they are passengers of the humanitarian trips organized by the Russian authorities. And we can only guess how more people fled South Ossetia without any help… This is a real catastrophe for such thinly populated republic like South Ossetia. What is especially shocking about all this is a cynical attitude Georgia demonstrates towards the people they call their “countrymen”. The RBK news agency reported that Tbilisi treated the information on the evacuation from South Ossetia as something “unworthy of note”. Temur Yakobashvili even called this a part of an information war. “Nothing serious. Children were just leaving for rest, and now they call it evacuation”. So, Minister of State for Reintegration of Georgia thinks the death of men, women and children in South Ossetia can be caused by “an information war”. For an unbiased person it won`t be difficult to see a parallel between the current humanitarian catastrophe in South Ossetia and the war crimes of the 20th century. Remember a long Serbian blockade of Sarajevo during an armed conflict between Bosnia and Herzegovina. Yet there are two principal differences: 1) the situation in Sarajevo resulted from genocide of the Serbian population in Bosnia and Herzegovina, carried out by the regime of Alija Izetbegović. 2) the “international community” stamped the army chiefs of the Republica Srpska as war criminals (unlike their Bosnian rivals), although Serbs suffered most as a result of a humanitarian catastrophe in the region. Recently First President of Republica Srpska, Radovan Karadzic, became another victim of the western political machine. Neither Izetbegovic nor Franjo Tudjman were honored in such a way… Like Serbs, the people of South Ossetia have no other patrons except Russia. And Moscow cannot ignore this. No matter how the situation develops further, the people of South Ossetia will still live in fear of genocide. So Russia has all the rights to use force to save the minor nation from extinction. Apart from this, Moscow can resort to more complicated diplomatic means to influence the situation in the conflict zone. The United Nations Organisation is another institution able to change the situation for the better. One of the prior tasks is to hold an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council in order to decide on the measures to be taken to deal with the consequences of the humanitarian catastrophe in South Ossetia. It demands the UN Security Council to admit that the catastrophe was caused by Georgia’s aggressive policy and to launch a humanitarian intervention if Tbilisi denies the accusations. The UN Security Council has to make a difficult and serious decision. As the world news agencies reported on August, 5, the UN officials yet were not going to place the issue on the agenda. Despite all this, it is Russia`s debt to remember that each day the people of South Ossetia are being forced to leave their historical lands. http://en.fondsk.ru/article.php?id=1522 - http://en.fondsk.ru/article.php?id=1522 |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:31
| Com' on Bankotsu, you can just stop copy pasting whole articles. Better just give a link and add your comment to it. |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:41
Russia didn't recognize "independence" of Ossetia and Abkhazia these are facts. If you think that attacking and killing peacekeepers is normal and openly lie about peace and than start massive assault in the night it's normal, then I'm afraid we don't have common ground for discussing this problem.
Russia is not going to tolerate this situation. If the Georgian dictator thinks that he can resolve the internal problems of his country by the war, he has made a big mistake. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:48
Georgian troops retreat from S. Osettian capitalhttp://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28668 - http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28668NATO encouraged Georgia – Russian envoyhttp://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28660 - http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28660Georgia vs. South Ossetia: roots of a 100-year conflicthttp://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28654 - http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28654Georgia, Washington and Moscow: a Nuclear Geopolitical Poker Game http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9564 - http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9564 |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:52
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I wonder why Georgia timed the assault against South Ossetia to coincide with Olympic Games opening ceremony in Beijing. It is to take advantage of world's current focus on Beijing to strike? |
Posted By: Spartakus
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 17:53
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I have lost the ball with Caucasus.....It should be Caucasuzation, not Balkanization.
------------- "There are worse crimes than burning books. One of them is not reading them. " --- Joseph Alexandrovitch Brodsky, 1991, Russian-American poet, b. St. Petersburg and exiled 1972 (1940-1996) |
Posted By: Majkes
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 19:10
You are denying Your own words. How can Georgia invade their own territory?
Apart from this I don't know who strted this and who is to blame. I'm sure both sides have 50% fault.
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 19:18
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....i have spoken on the phone only just today to a family member in the Abkhazian capital of Sukumi and rumours are abound that Georgia has 'invaded' Ossetia and the news being given is that Abkhazia will be the next target of Georgian hostilities....
...at the moment everything is unclear and we are currently swapping various news stories we are hearing....it seems that a large number of Abkhazian men, including my brother-in-law are readying themselves with weapons to fight back if necessary....also, it seems that many Abkhazian men are arming themselves and heading to Ossetia to help against Georgina forces...
..its pretty damn worrying for my partner and me as her mother and her immediate family are caught up in all this and they all have grim memories and stories regarding the first major conflict which took place in the early 1990's.....much was lost last time including life and property......hope some form of common sense prevails.... ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 19:37
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My uncle works for Abu Dhabi group, he has been posted to Georgia for a year. His family just went to meet him,. God I hope its alright. ------------- |
Posted By: erkut
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 20:07
Now, who attacked first? 
Today an Azerbaijanian fellow called me and said Georgian troops entered Osetia and killed some Russian soldiers first. ------------- |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 20:27
What is Turkey's government stance in this conflict, have they commented? Since the Turkey share border with Georgia and quite important gas pipeline goes through it. |
Posted By: Panther
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 20:31
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War With Georgia
August 8, 2007: A week of fighting in Georgia (on Russians southern border in the Caucasus) was apparently a Georgian attempt to finally defeat ethnic separatists in the breakaway area of South Ossetia (population 50,000). Georgia announced that it had liberated the separatist area. Russia has not yet announced if it will go to war to support the, apparently, defeated South Ossetian separatists.
There is a second such area; Abkhazia (population 200,000). Georgia has a population of 4.6 million, and a hostile relationship (going back centuries) with Russia. In response to this bad attitude, Russia has backed the rebels of Abkhazia and South Ossetia (which are on the Russian border) since the early 1990s. Georgia was part of the Soviet Union (and Russia) for over two centuries. Georgians tolerated this for a long time as the only way to keep the Moslem Turks out of Christian Georgia. But with the end of the Cold War, this was no longer an issue and the Georgians wanted the Russians gone. The Russians considered the Georgians ungrateful and unreliable (for allowing Chechen rebels to hide out in neighboring Georgian mountains.) The fighting in South Ossetia and Abkhazia had stopped over a decade ago, because Georgia could not muster sufficient military force to regain control of the two breakaway border areas. Then a UN brokered peace deal brought in several thousand Russian peacekeepers. About ten days ago, there were were reports of gunfire and mortar shells exploding in South Ossetia. In the last few days, Georgian Su-25 ground attack aircraft were seen hitting targets in South Ossetia. Artillery shells were reported to have hit a Russian peace keeper barracks. Russia announced that it was sending more peacekeeping troops to South Ossetia. Russian aircraft were reported to have bombed targets just inside Georgia. Russia was unable to get the UN to pass a resolution demanding that Georgia cease efforts to get back control of its territory. http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/russia/articles/20080808.aspx - http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/russia/articles/20080808.aspx Somebody was getting played as the fool in the peace efforts, and it's not clear who it really is yet? Until then, i'm not going to rush too judgement until the facts are much more clearer!
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Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 20:55
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This war has started to affect Russian economics. In the Moscow stock market. The main trade index has fallen by 6,5%. The most share value reduction have experienced two Russian oil giants Rosneft and Lukiol. Their shares have fallen accordingly by 9,8% and 7,3%. The Russian national currency "rubl" has fallen against US $ by 2 % |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 21:31
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NEWS UPDATE Turkey has agreed to a request from neighbour Georgia to supply the country with electricity amid the conflict in the breakaway South Ossetia region, a senior Turkish Energy Ministry source told Reuters on Friday. |
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 22:05
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We should view the current situation as part of Russia's policy of asserting her influence in former Russian/Soviet territories where she identifies her vital interests as being involved. The deeper into the Caucasus Russian troops can be inserted, the more influence Russia has over affairs nearby which can impact those Russian interests. "Peace keeping" and protection of Russian nationals are always handy levers. The availability of assault troops close by the peacekeepers is revealing.
Russia showed in Chechnya that what is necessary to attain objectives will be done. The lesson is intended to impress (at low cost) both the Caucsus states as well as former USSR territories like Ukraine and Kazakhstan. It is also intended to impress Iran.
Not the least of the messages is being sent to NATO: "Stay out of our sphere because you cannot do anything about these matters anyway."
To the UN: "Go fly a kite."
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Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 22:44
Whaterver one says, it's fact that the Georgian leadership bears all the responsiblity for this conflict. Just 2 days ago Georgia promised that all the disagreements will be resolved peacefully. The next night they attacked the Ossetian villages with the full power. This happened on the first day on the Olympics apparently, to divert the world's attention from this small Georgian blietzkrieg. According to Ossetian refuges 3 Ossetian villages are raised to the ground with the civillians remaining there dead. Already more than 1000 Ossetian civilians have been killed.
UN and many influential world leaders called Georgia to stop fighting and peacefully resolve the conflict. Despite all the that the Georgian baffoon, Saalashvilili continued his "blietzkrieg" which lead to the murder of 10 Russian peacekeepers and the Russian peacekeepers base complitely destroyed by the massive artillery fire.
Now he is crying that Russia retaliated. Russia did what she had to do, the baffoon is crying now, but his "brilliant" plan of putting Ossetia on its knees has already failed
 .Russia didn't start this conflict. It's protecting now Ossetian people from another genocide. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 22:47
This is exactly what happened. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 22:52
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Here is the article which examines the origins of the conflict in Ossetia.
http://sojcc.ru/eng_news/295.html - http://sojcc.ru/eng_news/295.html ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 23:00
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Sarmat
The only thing in this article (written by an Ossetian as his name suggests) is blatent attacks on georgians without any fact, just claiming that they are in a league on their own like hitler just tells you where he stands on the subject.
By the way, I am actually with Ossetia getting its independence, what make me go haywire is the total hypocracy of russia when it comes to kosovo, either you take one position and stick to it or don't take a position at all.
Al-Jassas
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Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 23:10
John Edwards having sex is more important than the Ossetia disaster
according to CNN international (headline case Edwards having an affair).
 
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Posted By: Temujin
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 23:30
but the next question is, what are Russian soldiers doing in Georgia? i take it that 'Osetia' above refers to South Ossetia which is within the sovereignity of Georgia. |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 23:50
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Those were peacekeepers who legitemately were there with accordance with international agreements. It was indeed stupid to attack them. However, I'm afraid that the Georgian "Napolean" has complitely lost his mind.
Instead of sending his troops to Iraq and killing Ossetian civillians he should have better taken more care about his country's economy. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 08-Aug-2008 at 23:57
What hypocracy? I think I have repeated many times that Russia didn't recognize South Ossetian and Abkhazian independence although they have been asking for it since the early 1990th.
Russia intervened because its people are being killed there. May be Saakashivilli hope that Russia will be silently looking at all this mess? No more.
Concerning the origins of the conflict it actually started after the slogan of Gamsahurdia "Georgia for Georgians." Georgian nationalists wanted to liquidate complitely Abkhazian and Ossetian autonomy this was the only reason of the conflicts. It actually were the Georgians who created such a strong desire of the Southern Ossetians for independence. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 00:04
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Anyway the so called "Russian peacekeepers" are the former Soviet Union
army (now Russia), which never left Georgia when it gained
independence. Considering history I must say that Baltic states are
quite lucky that Russian army left in 1994, otherwise we might still
have them under honorably name "Russian peacekeepers". The Georgians actually wanted to substitute Russian "peacekeepers" with "peacekeepers" from UN. Not surprisingly Russia was all against it, otherwise it wouldn't be able to control its business in Abhazia and South Ossetia. In the end neither of sides really care for S. Ossetinian civilians - nor Russia, nor Georgia. The real reason lies here. Some months ago Georgia , Azerbaijan and Turkey signed treaty about international gas pipe between Azerbaijan and Turkey - it could break Russian position into Europe. |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 00:13
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I'm sorry but this is complitely false. Russia is saving and helping Southern Ossetian civilians now. Russia is treating wounded Ossetians and giving shelter to the refuges, while Georgian tanks are shooting them.
Russian peacekeepers in Ossetia are mandated by the UN, OBSE and the Council of Europe. So, your analysis was not really correct. In fact, the peacekeepers' corps consisted of equal proportion of Georgian, Ossetian and Georgian forces. So they were mandated by all the conflicting parties as well.
What you said about the pipeline might be true but you must be an idiot to start the war in the manner Saakashvilli did it. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 00:30
I don't believe that Saakashvilli with Georgia are the only ones involved there. This seemed like well designed plan attacking in the eve of Olympic games and obvious it provoked Russian invasion. There are probably bigger forces behind the scenes playing this game, Saakashivilli might as well be just a pawn. Lets wait for tomorrow when the large states and organizations will come up with their commentaries. |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 00:49
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Hmmm... Which states?
I don't think the US is really interested in this conflict.
I just saw CNN report on the situation. Another example of distortion.
The broadcast just the Saakasvhili view. I especially "liked" when they showed him saying that "he wants only peace and to end the hostilities." These are the words of the man who order to start the war on the first day of the Olympics.
 It's simply disgusting. And why did he put the flag of the European flag behind his back. He wants Europeans to justify his crimes? Such a hypocracy. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: ArmenianSurvival
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 01:17
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Georgia most certainly set the spark that ignited this current situation, by briefly occupying parts of the South Ossetian capital in a pre-emptive strike. In my opinion Saakashvili was trying to crush Ossetia with a quick conquest of the S.O. capital, in order to start negotiations with Abkhazia in a position of strength. I think for Georgia, this conflict is more about Abkhazia. And at the same time and to a lesser extent, to try to impress NATO, and perhaps draw them closer to Georgia due to their anti-Russian stance. Obviously Russia was expecting something as their army responded almost on cue. There have been cold war tactics between the two sides for months now, and S.O. even evacuated local children over to the Russian side a few days ago after the Georgian military buildup across the border. But now, because of Georgia's miscalculation that Russia would not respond, Russia has an opportunity to not only prove that it calls the shots in the Caucasus, but more importantly to give the impression to NATO that it must rethink its strategy of expansion to surround Russia (I think pikeshot's post is accurate).
Of course it doesn't hurt that the vast majority of Ossetians are Russian citizens, and even voted overwhelmingly in favor of a referendum in 2006 to be part of the Russian Federation. This is an excellent card in Russia's hand, alongside the Georgian pre-emptive strike.
Just a side note: Ossetia was never part of the Georgian SSR, it was an autonomous region, and it declared its independence according to contemporary Soviet law, which says that an autonomous region in the USSR can declare independence from a succeeding republic (in this case, Georgia). Abkhazia is basically the same situation, as is Karabagh.
Actually Russia's position is pretty consistent. They prefer that none of these entities are independent. I don't agree with this, but its consistent. They are supporting Ossetia not because of their independence movement, but because the vast majority of the population are Russian citizens. That is their main reason (geopolitics aside).
This is different from the west's viewpoint, which believes that some entities deserve independence while others don't.
Ever since he took office, he has made all his policy decisions on the assumption that the west will bend over backwards to help Georgia against Russia. You can see why the country is spiralling out of control. ------------- Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։ |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 04:57
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My view of this war is that it is both an internal conflict of Georgia/South Ossetia and also a proxy conflict with USA/NATO and Russia. While it is probably true that Georgia was the aggressor in this case, Russia stepped up its relations with South Ossetia some months before. That move was probably in response to Kosovo declaring independence. USA, EU states, NATO and others backed the Kosovo move and also Georgia's entry into NATO. If Russia lets Georgia gains a victory here, it would be a victory for USA and NATO as well. That can't be allowed from Russian point of view of course. |
Posted By: Leonidas
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 05:02
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^ good post by you and Pike. The peacekeepers are a trip wire, and Georgia went in boots and all. If anything I would fall under the 'pro Chechen' camp in that region, but I think Georgia deserves what it gets. They are not the 'good guys' and i can assure you russian gas is more important to the EU than Tbilisi, winter is around the corner. What is buccaneer Bush ( and other western lacky's) going to say? respect national sovereignty and territorial integrity! they already have, but that was screwed right up in Kosovo. You reep what you sow. |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 05:10
Experts argue over Georgia-Ossetia conflicthttp://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28676 - http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28676South Ossetia: The War Began! http://en.fondsk.ru/article.php?id=1530 - http://en.fondsk.ru/article.php?id=1530 The Goals Behind Moscow's Proxy Offensive In South Ossetia http://jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2373298 - http://jamestown.org/edm/article.php?article_id=2373298 Russia is asking for trouble in Georgia http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/830edc3a-656d-11dd-a352-0000779fd18c.html - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/830edc3a-656 The two-faced, underhanded foreign policy of Georgia http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/08-08-2008/106028-twofacedgeorgia-0 - http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/08-08 |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 06:10
Probably as a propaganda move to show that Georgia and EU are together against Russia. Some uninformed people might even think that Georgia is in EU. |
Posted By: Afghanan
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 06:17
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So far Russia has derailed the UN from making a decision on the war since it has a permanent seat on the security council. Russia is showing its force big time in Georgia and I dont think Georgia will come out the same after this conflict.
------------- The perceptive man is he who knows about himself, for in self-knowledge and insight lays knowledge of the holiest. ~ Khushal Khan Khattak |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 06:24
Lack of UN reaction worsened Georgia-South Ossetia conflict - Russiahttp://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28688 - http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28688UN Security Council meets again over South Ossetia conflict http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90856/6470182.html - http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777 |
Posted By: Majkes
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 07:56
| It's a big mistake made by Salikashwili to attack Russian troops. Now Georgia will suffer a lot. He is a suicaider or what? Nobody will risk war with Russia now especially that it was georgians that made a first move from what I hear in Polish news ( which hardly can be accused to be pro russian ). |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 08:16
He is complitely crazy. That's a fact. The bad think is that the Georgian people now have to suffer because of this mad man.  ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 08:22
Does it mean that Saakashvilli propaganda is aimed at idiots? ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 09:47
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Why did Saakashvilli risk a Georgian-Russian war by invading South Ossetia? This appears to be a risky move. Did he for some unknown reason feel that Russian would not intervene? Or he did receive prior USA/NATO secret backing? |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 11:07
Russia says Georgian forces expelled form S.Ossetian capitalhttp://en.rian.ru/world/20080809/115919037.html - http://en.rian.ru/world/20080809/115919037.htmlRussia says 1,500 killed in S.Ossetiahttp://en.rian.ru/russia/20080809/115917652.html - http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080809/115917652.html |
Posted By: Omar al Hashim
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 11:48
Bullseye. And to the US: "Stay out of central asia"
Russia isn't being hypocritical. They want to keep as much territory for themselves (Ossetia) or their allies (Kosovo). There isn't any ideological point, just more power to Russia.
Is it really Georgia? They have never controlled it. The only thing that makes it Georgia and not Russia is the borders the Russians drew.
Seconded. Saakashivilli was in Americas pocket, and I think he is counting on American help - which I would be very surprised if he got. The timing is no coincidence, but honestly, it favours Russia. I think Saakashivilli is playing right into Medvedev's hands, but I don't know why. If Russia punishes georgia heavily in this war and georgia is left unsupported, Russia wins, big time, and Putin's strategy for the last 8 years is vindicated. On the other hand if Russia looses (I think this is highly unlikely) there is a massive victory for US/NATO interests. ------------- |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 12:20
Even if Russia gains total victory over Georgians - its reputation will be tarnished in the eyes of EU large states which till now were rather "supportive" or "neutral" to political situation in Moscow. We could expect that the national defense budgets will steadily raise in Europe - especially in those countries which border with Russia. France and Germany will fall under greater influence from USA. Ukraine might be the next one. Similar situation like in Georgia. Wants to be in EU and NATO, which is certainly against Moscow's interests. But it is way larger around 40 million population and territorially wise. It would get very ugly there with full blown civil war with Russia supporting Eastern Ukraine and EU, US supporting western Ukraine. |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 12:38
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Excellent news. South Ossetians have been brutalised by the Georgians with the west turning a blind eye for long enough. This can be considered as a Russian liberation equivalent to Kosovo.
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Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 12:42
Not exactly - Russians have always been there from 1991. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 13:20
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The Russian have one corps in action already and a second one had been sent. In addition a division of paratroopers and and air assualt division. That is serious capability. Looks like they are looking to go into Georgia itself. They don't need half this strenght to chase the georgians out of S Ossetia. ------------- |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 13:29
Abkhazia Threatens Georgia with Second FrontGeorgia's march into South Ossetia has prompted the Abkhazia to begin preparing for war as well. Abkhazian Foreign Minister Sergei Shamba told SPIEGEL ONLINE that his province might open up a second front... http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,570829,00.html - http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,570829,00.html Abkhazia says Georgia boosting troops on Abkhaz Border: Reporthttp://www.antara.co.id/en/arc/2008/8/9/abkhazia-says-georgia-boosting-troops-on-abkhaz-border-report/ - http://www.antara.co.id/en/arc/2008/8/9/abkhazia-says-georgiaAbkhazia sending troops to Georgian border http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28706 - http://www.russiatoday.ru/news/news/28706 Abkhazia about to enter war against Georgia? |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 13:30
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According to some Polish sources. Some 6 hours ago Russia accused Ukraine for supporting 'ethnic cleansing in Ossetia Thats the statement by Minister of Foreign Affairs of Russia. |
Posted By: pikeshot1600
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:15
Any opportunity to apply pressure to the states interested in NATO membership can be expected to be taken. The Russians perceived a setbak in the NATO decision to go ahead with the missile shield and "postpone" consideration of membership of Ukraine and Georgia in NATO.
What is underway now is intended to destroy that consideration. Russia is going to operate in her sphere of influence without interference from NATO/US.
Understandable. One side makes a move; the other counters.
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Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:31
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I really wonder how can you believe the outlandish lies, how the hell did Russia know just hours fter the battle began that 1500 civilians died in georgian shelling, I mean even if they had boots on the ground it will take days to verify the number and if these guys weren't killed by accident of deliberately. Same goes to the "peacekeepers", I mean if they were part of the UN then there should be independent verificiation if they actually died and if that was on purpose or self defense on the part of the georgians.
Basically, the last country in the world I would believe is Russia, I new guys who went to Chechnia and they swear that most, not all mind you, of the attrocities committed and attributed to the Chechens were the making of the Russians. And the recent events shed more light, while georgia was alledged to have shelled Tskhinvali with little proof Russia have been bombing and shelling Internationally regognized georgian civilian territory, mainly the city of Gori: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7550804.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7550804.stm . now russia have lost all the moral ground it bases its war on.
finally, what kind of support of "territorial integrity" that blatently undermines georgian authority, forbids them from enforcing georgian laws and constitution, gives Russian nationality en masse to a segment of a population and finally declares outright war when it did exactly what that same nation did to one of its territories, Chechnia?
Al-Jassas
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Posted By: Anton
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:34
If you move your nose toward Brussels you will find that this smell becomes even stronger. And the strongest smell comes with Atlantic storms
 Answering your question elswere in this topic -- what do Russians do in Georgia -- the answer is: protecting her geopolitical interests. One of which is influence in Caucassus region. Whether one likes it or not this is a reality and Russia has political and economical power to realize them. And it was huge mistake from the side of Georgia to make a direct confrontation with Russia. And especially crazy was to make military confrontation. Finally it was stupid to belive that appart from political support they will get anything more from USA. Note that large part of Georgian economics come from Russia and direct arguing with Russia simply leads to decrease in life standarts in Georgia. So instead of concentrating on their problems they waste limited national resources for nothing. If they were freezing the situation with Abhazia and SO and concentrate as I said on development of their economics (they have all resources for that) they would create a confederation with Abhazia and SO within next 50 years. They should have learned Balkan mistakes. ------------- . |
Posted By: Leonardo
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:38
And obviously you trust pro Chechens propaganda. Guess why? Yes, because you are a muslim ...
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:45
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Leonardo that was uncalled for and you are casting aspirations on Al Jassas. The recision of your warning was not an invitation to reoffend.
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Posted By: Al Jassas
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:54
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Actually Leo's comments are an indication on his character, he is only hurting himself and believe me, I won't lose sleep over his comments. Al-Jassas
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Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 15:56
Abkhazia enters war against Georgiahttp://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/08/09/europe/EU-Georgia-South-Ossetia-Abkhazia.php - http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008Some 129 Georgians killed in conflict-govt source http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=288476 - http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=288476 Olympics-Georgia may pull out of Beijing Games - NOC http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=288477 - http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=288477 |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:06
Yes, yes, but with the hypocrisy remark - I didn't have Kosovo in mind, but Chechnya if you wonder.
About the question - it was rhetorical in nature answering to Bankotsu post. But with the rest of all your comments, i agree. |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:10
Medvedev tells Bush Russia aims to force Georgia to accept peacehttp://en.rian.ru/russia/20080809/115925621.html - http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080809/115925621.html |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:27
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Russian news agency Interfax says that they saw NATO vehicles being transported by train
from Bantumi to South Ossetia. They said that vehicles have no identification signs on them. They also said that near Bantumi they have spotted Turkish naval ships fully loaded with naval infantry. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:37
And you too Al Jassas have to be careful.
Everyone, please presume good faith.
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Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 16:38
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan_pipeline - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan_pipeline The pipeline is owned by a consortium of energy companies led by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BP - BP (formerly British Petroleum), the operator of the pipeline. The shareholders of the consortium are:
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Posted By: rider
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 17:41
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Sarmat, I've lost my temper. From your posts here, I see that you support the full destruction of a peacful and independent nation. Russia always portraits everything in it's favour - you can't get reliable information from inter-Russian sources. I thought you'd know that. If it becomes a prolonged war, Georgia may win if they hold out until the winter, and if the winter is strong. But, if Russians aren't afraid of cold, the last light of freedom may have disappeared from this war if no one goes to help Georgia. ------------- |
Posted By: Bankotsu
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 17:45
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Georgia Gets Its War On…McCain Gets His Brain Plaque… http://exiledonline.com/georgia-gets-its-war-onmccain-gets-his-brain-plaque/#more-269 - http://exiledonline.com/georgia-gets-its-war-onmccain US-Russian tensions in Caucasus erupt into war http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/aug2008/ruge-a09.shtml - http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/aug2008/ |
Posted By: Leonardo
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 17:46
My post was intended to be sarcasm not offence ... anyway I'll try not to respond to the provocations of that guy ...
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 17:53
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Good idea. ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 17:54
Georgia started this war and now they are getting spanked. Why should anybody risk their sons lives for that? ------------- |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 18:05
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It look like Leonardo no more interested with provocation. It looks like warning made its way.
Anyway, I think Russia risked a lot too. If georgian soldiers resist one month, Other countries will be take their hands at region too. So maybe, Russian peace keeper soldiers will leave territory and other peacekeeper soldiers will take their places.. At least, I think this is what georgians hope. Anyway, not much important. After all, They are peace keepers.
By the way, I think Turkey is officially neutral at this conflict.(Pro-Georgian.)
Also, Leonardo. This has no relation with muslim thing. For your info, Georgians are christians and Abkhazia has more muslim than georgia. So You should infact support georgians my friend.. Just a friendly help for a complex situation for you.
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Posted By: mamikon
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:05
| One month? They will probably be kicked out of Ossetia by Sunday night, and not to mention Georgia is about to lose Kodori Gorge in Abkhazia. Saakashvily is the epitome of stupidity... |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:19
How can you believe that this is not true? The Russian TV is giving 24 hours direct broadcasting from Tskhinval. The Georgian regime has already prohibitted the broadcasting of the Russian TV in Georgia because while Russians show the real pictures from the space Georgians show nothing except stupid reports of Georgian military about their victories.
I told you Russia's Mass media directly brodcasts from the place instead of biased CNN why don't you try to at least take a look at the Russian news reports: http://www.russiatoday.ru - www.russiatoday.ru
Besides, how Chechnia is related here?
OK, Russian troops commited atrocities in Chechia, so in your view Georgians can kill Ossetian now because of this? Interesting logic, indeed.
Look. Russia wouldn't invervene under other circumstances. Why did Georgia has to break it's promise of peace and kill Russian peacekeepers? Why? US or France or England or any other power with similar capabilities wouldn't tolerate this disgusting treacherous attacks. Why Russia should?
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Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:25
Dear rider,
I have access to both sources. I live in the US. And unfortunately I see that that the news are distorted not by Russia, but by somebody else.
Why do you think that Russia wants to destroy Georgia? Yes, the Georgian army objects will be attacked, but the Russian army will not beyond the pre-conflict borders of Ossetia.
Why do you turn your eye blind on the treacherous attack on the first day on of the Olympics and the murder of Russian peacekeepers?
Why do you think it's normal and good? Tell me please, why?
Is it just because you think that everything Russia does is wrong?
I don't support "destruction of Georgia" and it won't be destroyed. It's Georgian soldiers who attack Tskhinvalli now and Russian soldiers who defend it not vice-versa. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:27
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According to the Russian news agencies. Abkhazia attacked Georgian forces in order to assist its "Ossetian brothers."
The Georgian dictator got what he wanted. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Leonardo
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:30
I don't support any because I admit I have few informations and I don't trust the medias and, just for your information, I'm not "pro-christians", I'm "anti-islam" or, better said, I'm "anti-islam" in Europe, I dont' care a f**k of Islam outside Europe.
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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:36
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One month? They will probably be kicked out of Ossetia by Sunday night, and not to mention Georgia is about to lose Kodori Gorge in Abkhazia. Saakashvily is the epitome of stupidity... Related how much cruelty russia will show and how much resistance georgians will show. I am talking about all georgia not only ossetia. (And I am curious If russia will occupy all georgia.)Yes, georgia can see harm from this war but Russia absolutely would not benefit from this too. Infact, This is a conflict both side cannot benefit much.(If there is not enough support for georgia.)
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Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:38
Well, how long were western peacekeeprs [instigators] present in Kosovo prior to secession from serbia? ------------- |
Posted By: Zagros
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:39
Russia should be as merciful as the Yanks in Iraq - that is - kill first: ask questions later. ------------- |
Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:42
How can they be peace keepers if they are from Russia. For a real peacekeeping there should be troops from countries which aren't involved, like Finland, Pakistan, Portugal. The Russian army has been there since 1991 because previously they were Soviet union army, now just renamed to peacekeepers. Hardly compares with Kosovo. |
Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:43
Hmm. georgia is in the Europe too. I am sure you had so little knowledge or You would just not write any mesage to this topic.(After all, why someone should write a message If he has no idea about topic.)
Just curiousity. What about bosniaks or albanian.
And more important than all bosniaks and albanians, What about me? I am living at european part of istanbul. Will you be happy If I go anatolian part of istanbul?
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Posted By: Roberts
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:44
I am watching Russian TV too, for some reason they don't show Gori, wonder why. Seriously if we want to get real info it certainly wont come nor from Russian media nor from Georgian. |
Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:47
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Yes, but the point is that CNN broadcasting only Georgian view. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:50
Russia is not going to occupy Georgia. Russian forces will not move beyond the borders of Ossetia.
And again, Russia wouldn't invervene at all if the Georgian dictator would make his little blietzkrieg in another way. He bears all the responsibility for what is happenning now. ------------- Σαυρομάτης
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Posted By: Mortaza
Date Posted: 09-Aug-2008 at 19:51
USA thing is totally unrelated. Firstly, USA is not alone entered iraq. She had a lot allies. Second I am sure, Russia had less experience to hide their crimes..
I should also say, USA image is damaged becase of iraq. Just guess what would become russian image.
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