Notice: This is the official website of the All Empires History Community (Reg. 10 Feb 2002)

  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Topic ClosedTurkey in Iraq?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 8>
Author
eaglecap View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: ArizonaUSA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3959
Direct Link To This Post Topic: Turkey in Iraq?
    Posted: 17-Oct-2007 at 04:45
Originally posted by Sparten

The Turks have the right to take action to defend their soverignity.


I agree with this and it looks like some of the Democrats are backing down. My angle it is not in the interest of the US right now to do this. Hopefully, when our troops are out of iraq, if ever, then we can address this issue.
I do agree that the Turks have a right to deal with the terrorist Kurds on the border but I think things could get worse if this article below is true. Unifying with Iran would really escalate this war and really put Turkey at odds with the USA. I do not want to see this happen.

Turkey Forms Alliance With Iran Against Kurds
Using its outrage over the House resolution on the Armenian genocide as a pretext to flout its alliance with the United States.

By Kenneth R. Timmerman at NewsMax (thanks to Dav):



U.S. ally Turkey and U.S. arch-enemy Iran have formed a military alliance to drive opposition Kurds from bases in northern Iraq they have used since 2004 to launch guerrilla operations inside Iran, rebel leaders told Newsmax at a secret base in the Qandil mountains.

Both Iran and Turkey have vowed to send troops into northern Iraq, but until now evidence of active military cooperation between them has remained a closely-held secret.

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has stepped up political and diplomatic threats in recent days, telling the United States he would cut off U.S. access to the strategic Incirlik airbase in eastern Turkey if the U.S. tried to prevent Turkey from sending troops against the Kurdish bases in northern Iraq.
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
Back to Top
aslanlar View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 12-May-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 124
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2007 at 16:25
Does Iran have a problem with the kurds?
"The league is alright when sparrows dispute but it can do little when eagles argue" -Mussolini
Back to Top
Cent View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 20-Jun-2005
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2007 at 16:28
Iran has been bombing Iraq for quite a while now.
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
Back to Top
DayI View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan
Avatar

Joined: 30-May-2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2408
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2007 at 18:46
Originally posted by Cent

Iran has been bombing Iraq for quite a while now.
PKK/Pejak bases near kandil mountans so far I know it.
Back to Top
eaglecap View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar
Retired AE Moderator

Joined: 15-Feb-2005
Location: ArizonaUSA
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3959
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Oct-2007 at 22:31
I hope the Dems back down but still Turkey will have to deal with the issue someday. I worry about the lawyers who want to seek reparations from Turkey and it turns out this is all about money.
The Armenians were not the only ones to lose family and property to the Ottoman Turks so when will this end. The Turks should recognize and acknowledge it just like we have done for the Native Americans. Turkey is far from the only country guilty of this sin, sad fact of our human history. For now, it is bad timing for the USA to adopt a resolution like this. I do not want to see us lose Turkey as a partner to the America.

I do wonder if this went through, which I doubt it will, and it damaged relations with us and Turkey would it bring us closer to Greece?
Λοιπόν, αδελφοί και οι συμπολίτες και οι στρατιώτες, να θυμάστε αυτό ώστε μνημόσυνο σας, φήμη και ελευθερία σας θα ε
Back to Top
Ponce de Leon View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar
Lonce De Peon

Joined: 11-Jan-2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2967
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 00:53
What I think I understand of the issue is that Iraqi Kurdistan is the safest place in Iraq and has a strong FDI. The government does not condone the PKK, however they do not stop them crossing their borders. So it is a problem. Maybe Turkey should go all Lebanon on their asses haha (I am kidding)
Back to Top
Cent View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 20-Jun-2005
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 09:18
Originally posted by DayI

Originally posted by Cent

Iran has been bombing Iraq for quite a while now.
PKK/Pejak bases near kandil mountans so far I know it.
 
And Kandil streches into Iraq.
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
Back to Top
ArmenianSurvival View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 11-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1460
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 09:25
Originally posted by Ponce de Leon

What I think I understand of the issue is that Iraqi Kurdistan is the safest place in Iraq and has a strong FDI. The government does not condone the PKK, however they do not stop them crossing their borders. So it is a problem. Maybe Turkey should go all Lebanon on their asses haha (I am kidding)


     I think the most sound argument is that there are many thousands more PKK fighters inside Turkey than in Iraq, but all their MPs can talk about are the minority of PKK fighters inside Iraqi Kurdistan. It is a deliberate deflection at the inadequacy of their own domestic policies in relation to their own Kurdish population, while at the same time providing them with a pretext to make an imperial grab on the oil fields of Iraqi Kurdistan. One has to be completely naive to believe that in this age, with the importance of energy resources, that Turkey is NOT trying to make a grab at the rich oil fields of this region (you have to at least take it into consideration, given the times we live in). And this oil-rich region is populated by the same people that Ankara has been oppressing for the last 80 years or so.



Originally posted by eaglecap

Unifying with Iran would really escalate this war and really put Turkey at odds with the USA. I do not want to see this happen.


     Well Iran and Turkey have been cooperating on this issue for quite a while, and even Syria endorses Turkey's entry into northern Iraq. Any country with a Kurdish population would love to see the only autonomous Kurdish district crushed.



Originally posted by Sparten

The Turks have the right to take action to defend their soverignity.


     They have had almost complete sovereignty for the better part of the last 7 centuries. The problem with Ankara is that they seek to bolster and expand this sovereignty by stripping the Kurds of theirs.
Mass Murderers Agree: Gun Control Works!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Resistance

Քիչ ենք բայց Հայ ենք։
Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 13:19
Aslanlar
Does Iran have a problem with the kurds?
 
A situation is trying to be created where there what has happened in Turkey with the Pkk will be replicated in Iran, Pkk-Pejak is now being trained, armed, financed and directed to step-up terror in Iran.
 
However, Iran can learn from experience in the region and is not taking the early stage of these terrorists lightly, they are blowing up their bases in Northern Iraq.
 
ArmenianSurvival
They have had almost complete sovereignty for the better part of the last 7 centuries. The problem with Ankara is that they seek to bolster and expand this sovereignty by stripping the Kurds of theirs.
 
This propaganda story just doesn't run anymore.
 
Turkey supported the early years of the Kurdistan state in Norther Iraq.
 
For the past few years the Turkish government has been very tolerant, they have refrained from causing problems between the Kurdish authorities in Northern Iraq. They have invited the Kurdish leaders for summits, talks and to co-operate.
 
Even with terrorism at its highest point since the early 90's they still tried to solve the issue with diplomacy. Countless times they called for the rulers in North Iraq to clamp down on terrorism. They even stood against the stance of the army and still tried to improve relations.
 
Now nobody can say Turkey didn't try.
 
Barzani is creating one huge mess for himself. He has alienated Iran, Syria, Turkey even others in Iraq, is allowing his state to be used as a sponser of terrorism and is causing uneeded tension.
 
The U.S won't back him forever, what will he do when the U.S looses interest and focuses energy on something else? a land-locked country, sponsering terrorists which are attacking countries on all sides of their borders.
 
 
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 13:37
Eaglecap
I agree with this and it looks like some of the Democrats are backing down. My angle it is not in the interest of the US right now to do this. Hopefully, when our troops are out of iraq, if ever, then we can address this issue.
I do agree that the Turks have a right to deal with the terrorist Kurds on the border but I think things could get worse if this article below is true. Unifying with Iran would really escalate this war and really put Turkey at odds with the USA. I do not want to see this happen.
 
Strategically Turkey is of high importance to the US, probobly at its highest point since the end of the Cold War.
 
 - U.S and Iran are currently pretty much enemy states.
 
 - U.S and Syria are in a similar position.
 
 - There is a chaotic war in Iraq.
 
 - Israel, which America treats as its 51st state, who is an ally and has a special relationship no other state does with her percieves to be at threat by Iran, Syria and all her Arab neighbours.
 
 - U.S and Russia have rocky relations.
 
 - U.S doesn't want Russian domination of the Caucauses and Central Asia
 
These points have bolsted Turkey's strategic importance for America.
 
 - An ally of U.S since before WW2, through the Cold War and a Nato member.
 
 - One of America's largest and most important millitary bases "Incirlik" is located in Turkey. This provides logistics and 70% of traffic/carge into Iraq, the middle east and into the Near-East.
 
 - Turkey is one of the few powerfull states in the region which has good relations with, Iran, Syria, Israel and other Arab states.
 
 - Turkey is firmly against any terrorist organisations, is not a supporter of extremism against the West and has co-operated and joined America's war on terrorism. Sending troop units to Afganistan twice.
 
- 25% of energy used in Northern Iraq is from Turkey.
 
- 16 American Millitary ships dock in Turkish ports.
 
- Has strong millitary relations.
 
etc etc etc
 
 
U.S.A and Turkey have alot of strong relations.
 
However, this is being severly damaged. Is it really in America's interests to jeopradise all of this for a few Democrat votes and allowing Pkk recognised as a terrorist organisation in America and across the world to operate freely? America is fighting a war against TERROR but isn't giving an ally support to fight TERRORISM on her doorstep!
 
While America carries on acting like this, its only natural that Turkey and now Iran and Syria move closer together as Pkk-Pejak terrorism is now operating in those states aswell.
 
America is talking about this "platform" to talk about ending terror.
 
Iran is not "talking", they told Turkey they would co-operate and work together against terrorism and they are keeping their word, their in Iraq fighting against Pkk-Pejak and providing intellegence to Turkey about suspected terrorists in the region aswell.
 
If Turkey joined Iran, Russia also looks warmly to such a prospect, it will be totally against American interests, however, through decisions which are giving blows to their foreign policy they would have created it.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Al Jassas View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 07-Aug-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1810
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 13:58
Dear Bulldog
 
The US knows no special relations to nobody and has no friends. They take you meat and through you bare bones and if you served them your entire life in a slavish manner, they will sell you when it is profitable to the politicians in Washington. Even Britain, the ally no. 1 that its own PM became the official spokesman of the US administration suffered humiliation during the most loyal british PM ever, dear old Mrs Thatcher, the "Iron lady" asthey called her. Reagan bluntly refused not only to give up well known IRA terrorists convicted in acts of terror against civilians, but he refused to stop funding those terrorists from inside the US and Thatcher did what a slave do, bow to her master and US worshippers inside Britain who are now calling for WWIII against Iran are masochistically happy withthis relationship. The other episode is Trinadad. I am not even going to mention what happened to the Shah of Afghanistan's Mujahedeen.
 
This is why Turkey should view every legistlation coming from congress with suspession because what will come next, return the lands taken after Sevres back?
 
Al-Jassas
Back to Top
Cent View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 20-Jun-2005
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 14:50

Iran, Turkey and Syria are afraid of KRG. That's fact.

I couldn't agree more with Armeniansurvival and his analyze.
 
 
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
Back to Top
Cent View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 20-Jun-2005
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 14:52
Bulldog, you speak of terrorism, but you forget to mention what the Turkish regime has done to Kurds in Turkey for the last 80 years.
 
If that's not terrorism, then I don't know what is.
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
Back to Top
aslanlar View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 12-May-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 124
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 15:05
Cent
"If that is not terrorism, then i don't know what is."

QUITE CLEARLY, you do not know what terrorism is. Explain how it's possible to label that as terrorism?


At armenian survival:
Did Turkey have intentions on aquiring the oil-fields of Northern Iraq the last two times they invaded Iraq? I don't remember Turkey aquiring Iraqi land?
"The league is alright when sparrows dispute but it can do little when eagles argue" -Mussolini
Back to Top
aslanlar View Drop Down
Samurai
Samurai
Avatar

Joined: 12-May-2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 124
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 15:11
Originally posted by eaglecap

I hope the Dems back down but still Turkey will have to deal with the issue someday.

I worry about the lawyers who want to seek reparations from Turkey and it turns out this is all about money.

The Armenians were not the only ones to lose family and property to the Ottoman Turks so when will this end.

The Turks should recognize and acknowledge it 


The issue will be dealt with eventually, but without Turkey accepting the 'genocide'.

Do you HONESTLY (key word) think it's not about Money and Land in the form of reparations?

Yeh, we should want reparations from the armenians! LOL

"Turkey should recognize and achnowledge it" ...Or not.


Now leading up to my point:
If the bill was passed within this year, what 'defensive attack' could Turkey produce against the US?


Edited by aslanlar - 18-Oct-2007 at 15:16
"The league is alright when sparrows dispute but it can do little when eagles argue" -Mussolini
Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 16:46
Cent
Bulldog, you speak of terrorism
 
Yes an internationally recognised Terrorist Oganisation called PKK.
 
Not your silly myths and legends...all you do is whine and squirm when it comes to accepting the reality, Pkk are nothing but an extremist terrorist organisation.
 
This happened the other day.
 
 
Southeastern village of Besagac buries 12 killed in PKK terrorist attack



A PKK terrorist attack which occured two evenings ago killed 12 people traveling on a minibus near the village of Besagac near Sirnak. Funerals for the 12 took place yesterday first in the city of Beytussebap, where crowds of more than 2,000 gathered and shouted slogans condemning the PKK. The bodies were then laid to rest in the village of Besagac.

The attack on the minibus took place on Saturday evening, when village residents were returning from working all day digging in water conduits, with the hope that sometime in the near future, Besagac village would have its own running water. When the evening Ramazan meal, iftar, began to approach, the villagers boarded the minibus back to their village. On the road back, the minibus was strafed by bullets from all side, as an estimated 10 PKK terrorists had set up a trap from the woods on both sides of the road. 
 
Commenting on the attack on his return from the US, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan noted that PKK terrorists had switched their targeting, from security force members to citizens. He also noted that the "determination" of the administration against the terrorists was reflected in what he called the "most recent flailings" of the PKK.
 
 
Something for you to cheer about.
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Bulldog View Drop Down
Caliph
Caliph
Avatar

Joined: 17-May-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2800
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 16:50
Al Jassas
The US knows no special relations to nobody and has no friends. They take you meat and through you bare bones and if you served them your entire life in a slavish manner, they will sell you when it is profitable to the politicians in Washington. Even Britain, the ally no. 1 that its own PM became the official spokesman of the US administration suffered humiliation during the most loyal british PM ever, dear old Mrs Thatcher, the "Iron lady" asthey called her. Reagan bluntly refused not only to give up well known IRA terrorists convicted in acts of terror against civilians, but he refused to stop funding those terrorists from inside the US and Thatcher did what a slave do, bow to her master and US worshippers inside Britain who are now calling for WWIII against Iran are masochistically happy withthis relationship. The other episode is Trinadad. I am not even going to mention what happened to the Shah of Afghanistan's Mujahedeen.
 
I have to totally agree, U.S has no true allies other than Israel, all other states are potential allies or enemies, it depends on their use, my point was stressing not the idea that Turkey is a rock-solid ally of the U.S but is in the interests of the country.
 
 
 
      What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world remains and is immortal.
Albert Pine

Back to Top
Cent View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 20-Jun-2005
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 18:13
Originally posted by aslanlar

Cent
"If that is not terrorism, then i don't know what is."

QUITE CLEARLY, you do not know what terrorism is. Explain how it's possible to label that as terrorism?


At armenian survival:
Did Turkey have intentions on aquiring the oil-fields of Northern Iraq the last two times they invaded Iraq? I don't remember Turkey aquiring Iraqi land?
 
From wikipedia:
 
"Terrorism in the modern sense[1] is violence or other harmful acts committed (or threatened) against civilians for political or other ideological goals."  
 
Turkey is actually fullfilling these criterias.
 
Turkey has used violence, torture and other means to enslave the Kurdish population for decades.
 
 
 
 
 
 
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
Back to Top
Cent View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 20-Jun-2005
Location: Sweden
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1013
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 18:15
Originally posted by Bulldog

Cent
Bulldog, you speak of terrorism
 
Yes an internationally recognised Terrorist Oganisation called PKK.
 
Not your silly myths and legends...all you do is whine and squirm when it comes to accepting the reality, Pkk are nothing but an extremist terrorist organisation.
 
This happened the other day.
 
 
Southeastern village of Besagac buries 12 killed in PKK terrorist attack



A PKK terrorist attack which occured two evenings ago killed 12 people traveling on a minibus near the village of Besagac near Sirnak. Funerals for the 12 took place yesterday first in the city of Beytussebap, where crowds of more than 2,000 gathered and shouted slogans condemning the PKK. The bodies were then laid to rest in the village of Besagac.

The attack on the minibus took place on Saturday evening, when village residents were returning from working all day digging in water conduits, with the hope that sometime in the near future, Besagac village would have its own running water. When the evening Ramazan meal, iftar, began to approach, the villagers boarded the minibus back to their village. On the road back, the minibus was strafed by bullets from all side, as an estimated 10 PKK terrorists had set up a trap from the woods on both sides of the road. 
 
Commenting on the attack on his return from the US, Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan noted that PKK terrorists had switched their targeting, from security force members to citizens. He also noted that the "determination" of the administration against the terrorists was reflected in what he called the "most recent flailings" of the PKK.
 
 
Something for you to cheer about.
 
You're mention what PKK is doing, but you're failing to see that TURKEY created PKK.
They don't speak enough about the Kurds, because we have never taken hostages, never hijacked a plane. But I am proud of this.
Abdul Rahman Qassemlou
Back to Top
Seko View Drop Down
Emperor
Emperor
Avatar
Spammer

Joined: 01-Sep-2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8595
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-Oct-2007 at 19:05

Try again? Read up on PKK history. Be factual without bias.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 8>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.56a [Free Express Edition]
Copyright ©2001-2009 Web Wiz

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.