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Topic ClosedTamils in ancient pakistan?
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tamils in ancient pakistan?
    Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 10:58
Was the Indus valley civilization a Tamil based civilization?
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K. V. Ramakrishna Rao View Drop Down
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Posts: 287 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 20:48
Already, enough has been discussed on the topic.
 
And we were even accused of being "South Indians" and so on.
 
Anyway, in spite of the interpretation of Asko Parpola, Iravatham Mahadevan and others, the Indus script could not be "Dravidian", as they have only taken few seals for their "words" to be read in Tamil. They cannot read all in Tamil.
History is not what was written or is written, but it is actually what had happened in the past.
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Posts: 110 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-Jul-2007 at 21:19

It is almost proved scientifically that Indus Valley Civilization was not a Dravidian civilization .

Speaking in a broader sense ,It was a civilization of the same Caucasian Scythian or central Asian people who as a majority are living here from ancient times .It was first pointed out by Prof.Hasan Dani and later substantiated by Craniometric and DNA analysis conducted by Hemphill and others.Modern representative of those ancient people are groups who are closely associated with a scythoaryan  ancestry.
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Posts: 315 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2007 at 05:39
When Kandiyur inscription was mentioned, we were dubbed differently, as pinted our by Mr. Rao.
 
If scholars are actually convinced so then they should come out and declare accordingly that the IVC civilizatioon was nether Aryan nor dravidian so that most of the wrong historical inerpretations of historians for the last 69 to 100 years would go.
 
The present generation could discuss effectively about the historical processes.
 
Even Pakistanis could join the issue.
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Posts: 80 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Jul-2007 at 23:51

Quite one another mixup from the forumers. Theres no dravida either and telling its a civilization of Caucasoid is baseless. Then you have to accept that from Eastern Europe to South-East India its of one race.

 

Indus and Vedic, both are indigenous and home-grown but cannot refuse the external but marginal impact over it.

 
Ancient tamil language and the people have rooted connection with Indus as of other sub-continent people. There are even groups in certain pockets of sind which is still evident to state this connection.


Edited by pumaaa123 - 04-Jul-2007 at 00:02
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Posts: 315 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Jul-2007 at 04:36
Kindly elaborate what you want to say:
 
"Ancient tamil language and the people have rooted connection with Indus as of other sub-continent people. There are even groups in certain pockets of sind which is still evident to state this connection".
 
Pakistanis have already refuted that they were "Dravidians", instead, they preferred to be called as "Aryans" (as per the postings "Pakistan stolen history").
 
 
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There is no proof that dravidians (Tamils) actually ever were present in pakistan or even north india, places like Punjab Kashmir etc....
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Posts: 10226 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Jul-2007 at 21:38

Pumaaa123 wrote-  Theres no dravida either and telling its a civilization of Caucasoid is baseless.

 
Do any of you read reach others posts, or do you just decide your going to argue with someone even if they are in agreement with you?
 
Both of you just restated what puma had posted, only you act like he didn't agree with you. 
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Posts: 928 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 09:31
Originally posted by Azat

It is almost proved scientifically that Indus Valley Civilization was not a Dravidian civilization .

Speaking in a broader sense ,It was a civilization of the same Caucasian Scythian or central Asian people who as a majority are living here from ancient times .It was first pointed out by Prof.Hasan Dani and later substantiated by Craniometric and DNA analysis conducted by Hemphill and others.Modern representative of those ancient people are groups who are closely associated with a scythoaryan  ancestry.


Which DNA analysis? Did they manage to get the DNA of Indus Valley residents? Where are those studies, you did not post any links.
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Posts: 52 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 09:58
man i herd tamils and dravadians are direct decendance of africans that settled in india? and they are closley realated to the Samalions.
 
is this tru?
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People like to say a lot of things. As for "direct decedents," i'm pretty sure that's not true. There might be a lot of similarities. But "direct" decedents? I don't know so much.

Plus, "Tamils," as a group, are not that homogeneous either. Tamil influence, and counter influence to Tamil groups, can be found everywhere from SE Asia up to Burma on the east and Maharashtra on the west. Through the Cholas, Cheras, and Pandyas and the Eastern and Western Chalukyas, Tamils have been dispersed throughout the Subcontinent. Similarly, invasions by more northern kingdoms into the Tamil controlled areas would have brought in several different phenotypes. Therefore, the grouping "Tamil" in itself hardly represents a homogeneous phenotype, but rather a more homogeneous culture.

Therefore, any genetic stuff you hear should be taken with a grain of salt. IMO, Tamil, South, North, and other such classifications are not in themselves exclusive enough to really be used to any effect for comparison.


Edited by AlokaParyetra - 09-Jul-2007 at 12:09
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Posts: 10226 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Jul-2007 at 17:16
This includes recent Hemphill study of S. Asia.  You have to read all of it.  If you rush through and cherry pick you might be shooting yourself in the foot.
 
 


Edited by red clay - 09-Jul-2007 at 17:17
"Arguing with someone who hates you or your ideas, is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter what move you make, your opponent will walk all over the board and scramble the pieces".
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Posts: 315 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Jul-2007 at 07:33
Dharmendra commented in "The Dravidian Problem" posting as follows:
 
Pathani is saying Bs^ The fact is this is just a lie to say tamils were ruling entire india. Tamils never had such power. I dont know why Tamils are being glorified on this site.
 
So what would be the comments of others?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2007 at 02:58
Hey folks,
am newly registered. am an Architect practicing in UK. my heartiest wishes to all you guys.
 
neway.. will go to the topic..
 

My personal perception is that rather investigating particularly on the connection of Tamils with Indus valley civilization, its worthwhile to understand some conceivable exploration on the ancient submerged cities in the Indian state of Tamilnadu.

Because, certain sensitive issues cant be resolved easily, moreover our political system would not allow coming for a conclusion too. As a person from tamil community, I believe that we have got even older and sophisticated cities existed in south India than Indus valley.

Please follow the link if you are interested to know.
 
http://www.newsfinder.org/site/more/tamil_nadus_ancient_cities_may_predate_mesopotamian_civilization/
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2007 at 03:10
added to that..
i have done a thesis on the ancient submerged city of poombuhaar and have applied several design theories on my Architecture. so i know a bit about the ancient city. am really a person who is concerned with the present mechanical design application in urban design which leads us to forget all our emotional and indigenous cultural expressions.
 
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Posts: 80 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11-Jul-2007 at 07:27

First lets correct the Topic Head. Its 'ancient'and there was no land in name of Pakistan. It should be called Indus Region instead.

Moreover many speak without having proper knowledge or without proper analysis with what they collect. Few are just mythical. Racial identification is complex and just hearing from someone you cant tell it over a history forum. For example, if you say a white can be ethnically identified with White skin color and piercing nasal shape then not all white have the same features. That much complex is racial classification which was taught by the white themselves to rest of the world.

The people of this sub-continent are from the same civilization, Indus. Check this that the Brahui langauge spoken in eastern baloch is brach out of anicent tamil and certain group (sect) of people from sind are classified along with south Indians genetically. Today they have lot of external influence.

Atlast the sangam literature of Tamil, South India which is recognised world over by historians, says how today sects of southern india camein in few thousands and settled down in this virgin land. This applies for the submerged kumari contient too. Todays southern tip is just left over. It requires much thoughtful research over south India, Tamil and Kumari continent, which could simply kill away those meaningless stories.


Edited by pumaaa123 - 11-Jul-2007 at 07:28
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Posts: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 00:57
pakistanis and Tamils are so different in everway, how can his connection be madeLOL.
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Posts: 5697 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-Jul-2007 at 05:26
Its quite ridiculous to back date a modern ethnicity that many years. Surely none of the modern ethnicities existed in any recognisable form.
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Posts: 80 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-Jul-2007 at 02:56

For one instance, check this yours own website stating what connection the Tamil/other south Indian languages have with Indus region. Brahui today having heavy external influence still while classifying comes under south Indian lingual subgroup. Panjabi/Sindi once been presented with similar script of Sanskrit today has become something like Arabic. Religion has changed a whole lot, even most of your body cells.

 

http://mazhar.dk/pakistan/population.htm - Scroll down and look at the end.

 

If cant back date and evaluate then have to stop talking history. You folks simply make out a connection between Sanskrit and Greek, Indian with European (Aryan). But are not ready to accept the very fact that most of todays subcontinent languages have same origin. Its quite easy to illustrate the similarity between Tamil and Hindi/Sanskrit but need to try hard to lay a connection between Sanskrit to Greek/Latin which is merely a coincidence. The westerns themselves have buried those stories. Why still holding that so hard when a light colored south asian is stoned in the streets of Russia and Britain. Accept and be happy with the formation you have.
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Posts: 0 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Jul-2007 at 17:20
it is possible that there were ancient dravidians in the indus, but that doesn't mean they were tamil??? why is that connection being made? There is no evidence that Tamil people actually existed in pakistan.
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