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Flourishing Moorish Iberia
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Sabzevarian View Drop Down
Knight
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Posts: 53 		  Quote Sabzevarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Flourishing Moorish Iberia
    Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 18:43
Well I went off the situation in the balkans and other regions, where it's Arabic or Muslim first name and regional or cultural last name.
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Posts: 2979 		  Quote azimuth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 00:45
Originally posted by Degredado

Actually, Mahmud Ibn Cabd al-Djabbar.

how do you pronounce that?

i guess it is mahmod ibn abd al-jabbar

 
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 12:46
An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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Posts: 366 		  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24-Feb-2005 at 05:35

Actually, Mahmud Ibn Cabd al-Djabbar.

God I've been wanting to answer that for days now!
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Posts: 53 		  Quote Sabzevarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 15:12
Mahmud Henriques
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 11:45
Nope, didn't know that. Interesting....hmmm, Mahmud Al-Whatever instead of D. Afonso Henriques!
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Posts: 366 		  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 03:58
Infidel, did you know that according to Livermore, Portugal could have become an islamic nation under the rule of a man named Mahmud? Apparently, around the 840's, this Mahmud character took advantage of an uprising to gain some power for himself. A place called Mafamedes near Porto is supposedly named after this character.
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2005 at 20:09
None of them is a castillan dialect. They are all different languages, and all latin ones (except for Basque, of course).
Galician is more close to Portuguese and Catalan has some influence from French.
Basque is of unknown origin. Some say celt, others that it is an iberian language, thus prior to the Latin advent. Basque is a favourite object of study for many linguists because of that.  
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Benceno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2005 at 18:59
Originally posted by Sabzevarian

How do you pronounce the j in ojala (guttural sound??). What is castellano?


The j is pronounced like Ho! or the H in Omaha.

Castellano is, as Degregado said, what people use to call Spanish. It is/was the dominating language in Castille, and since when Spain was formed Castille was the dominating kingdom, Castilian become the official language (though Galician(Gallego), Basque(Vasco), Catalan(Cataln)) are widely spoken in their regions.

Most of them could be taken for Castilian dialects (though they are quite different), but basque is a very rare language (and very interesting, you might like to look for more information).
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Posts: 366 		  Quote Degredado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10-Feb-2005 at 05:00

The J in spanish is pronounced like an h. Methinks anyway. Castellano is basically what everyone calls Spanish (though deep in my heart I  know that the Spanish language does not really exist. It's a Castillian conspiracy! 

For a short period of time, the Iberian Peninsula was part of the Arab empire. Then came the Abbasids, and that Ummayad guy took refuge in Cordoba. And then Iberia was an independant caliphate, and then the slavs and the berbers wrecked the caliphate, and then came the taifas, followed by the Almoravids (very african empire, though I'm not sure of the ethnicity of the Almoravids themselves), followed by the Almohads, followed by the taifas...down to Grenada.

The moorish period of the Iberian peninsula certainly is interesting, though I don't think it was exactly like the middle east as Azimuth said, though there were similarities. It wasn't just arts and crafts though (curiously enough, andalusian arts flourished during the taifa period). Moorish Iberia was turbulent. At times, it was not a nice place to live in.

I must admit something though. Everytime I read arab rhetoric on how peaceful and golden Al-Andalus was, ignoring the uprisings, the Almoravids and the Almohads, I feel like I want to puke.



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Sabzevarian View Drop Down
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Posts: 53 		  Quote Sabzevarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 23:09
How do you pronounce the j in ojala (guttural sound??). What is castellano?
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 21:11
at first yes, but then the Almoravids and where either Berber or Sahel i forget which and the Almohads were definately Berbers, I think....jeez I used to be the king of west african empires now I am having a brain fart...
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 20:02
Yes, they spoke Arabic and they were muslim. The Al-Andalus was part of the Arab Empire, if I'm not seriously mistaken.
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Posts: 488 		  Quote Artaxiad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 18:11

Ok, but didn't they speak Arabic? Wasn't it the equivalent of what is now known as an official language?

 
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Posts: 4310 		  Quote Tobodai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 00:43

they werent Arabs people they were Berbers....Ber-freaking -bers!

and yes it was a fun time
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 13:33

The equivalent in castellano is ojal, where j has that gutural sound. In portuguese the x in oxal has the english sound sh [osha'la].

 



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An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur?
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 13:30

Originally posted by Artaxiad

Do you think that if Iberia was ruled by Arabs, it would be in better hands?

Certainly, nowadays it wouldn't!

But I believe in multicultural societies. There's a growing community of muslims in Portugal (mainly Lisbon), many from Morrocco (but some portuguese muslims as well), slavs (ukranians), africans (from the ex-colonies) and some jews.

Concerning the moors themselves, I have a great admiration for their legacy as I said before. I feel sorry that nowadays they are so far back in the road...
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Posts: 691 		  Quote Infidel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 13:22

Originally posted by Sabzevarian

Oxal would be used by any Portuguese speaker? Is there an equivalent in Spanish?

Yes, any portuguese speaker uses oxal. A simple example like this dialog situation is very common:

-Ser que ela vai ficar melhor? (Will she get better?)

-Oxal! (I hope so!) 

 
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Posts: 0 		  Quote Benceno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 23:27
Originally posted by Sabzevarian

Oxal would be used by any Portuguese speaker? Is there an equivalent in Spanish?


There is, the equivalent is "ojal".

Probably, an earlier version of the word would be oxal, but in spanish most of the words that used to be written with x long ago are now written with j. In fact the letter x is quite unusual in an average text or speech of modern Spanish.

Yet, dialects of spanish Do have more presence of the X, specially Galician (I hope there is no one from Galicia here otherwise he will complain about Galician being a languange and not a dialect).
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Posts: 53 		  Quote Sabzevarian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 21:45
Oxal would be used by any Portuguese speaker? Is there an equivalent in Spanish?
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