Flourishing Moorish Iberia
Printed From: History Community ~ All Empires
Category: Regional History or Period History
Forum Name: Post-Classical Middle East
Forum Discription: SW Asia, the Middle East and Islamic civilizations from 600s - 1900 AD
URL: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2008
Printed Date: 17-May-2024 at 13:57
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Topic: Flourishing Moorish Iberia
Posted By: Infidel
Subject: Flourishing Moorish Iberia
Date Posted: 02-Feb-2005 at 22:48
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As I've said before, I'm a fan of the Moorish period in the Iberian Peninsula (I perfer this terminology rather than Moorish Spain. During that time, both a great deal of arts, culture and science were flourishing in the daily life of an enlightened civilization, such were the Moors in Al-Andalus. Their legacy is still felt in all those fields and in the language that we speak today. Portuguese has lots of arab words like alfaiate, alambique, açúcar, etc. We even have the expression Oxalá! ('hopefully') that comes from Insh'Allah (God will). I wanted to know what do our arab/islamic friends think of the time, how it is studied at schools (I think it is, right?) and what do they think of the region nowadays (Regardless of the Reconquista. Or maybe not 'As-salamu Alaikum' ------------- An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur? |
Go figure!).Replies:
Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 06-Feb-2005 at 21:28
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I saw a program today about Alhambra in Granada. Very beautiful.
------------- An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur? |
Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 12:05
i think that it was great period of time for that land and for Arabs too, it is studied at school briefly not in details ( Because that was part of the Ummayah Caliphat and then an indepndant Emirate) also that period was just a part of the Islamic and Arabic land and they were similar so Al-Andalus was not very different from Damascus or Baghdad , the problem is almost everything Ummayad left in the middel east was Destroyed by the Abbasides so the remaining in Spain now are considered more remains of ummayad than the once in the middel east what do i think of that area now? i think that it is lettel sad that spanish and Portugese dont consider that period as part of there History it would be better if there will be Re-Reconquista
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Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 12:24
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It is considered a part of both portuguese and spanish History. It's studied at schools and universities. Everybody knows about the mouros (moors) and their legacy. ------------- An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur? |
Posted By: Artaxiad
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 16:14
| Do you think that if Iberia was ruled by Arabs, it would be in better hands? |
Posted By: Sabzevarian
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 21:45
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Oxalá would be used by any Portuguese speaker? Is there an equivalent in Spanish? |
Posted By: Benceno
Date Posted: 07-Feb-2005 at 23:27
There is, the equivalent is "ojalá". Probably, an earlier version of the word would be oxalá, but in spanish most of the words that used to be written with x long ago are now written with j. In fact the letter x is quite unusual in an average text or speech of modern Spanish. Yet, dialects of spanish Do have more presence of the X, specially Galician (I hope there is no one from Galicia here otherwise he will complain about Galician being a languange and not a dialect). ------------- Hola. |
Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 13:22
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Yes, any portuguese speaker uses «oxalá». A simple example like this dialog situation is very common: -Será que ela vai ficar melhor? (Will she get better?) -Oxalá! (I hope so!)
------------- An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur? |
Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 13:30
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Certainly, nowadays it wouldn't! But I believe in multicultural societies. There's a growing community of muslims in Portugal (mainly Lisbon), many from Morrocco (but some portuguese muslims as well), slavs (ukranians), africans (from the ex-colonies) and some jews. Concerning the moors themselves, I have a great admiration for their legacy as I said before. I feel sorry that nowadays they are so far back in the road... ------------- An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur? |
Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 08-Feb-2005 at 13:33
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The equivalent in castellano is ojalá, where j has that gutural sound. In portuguese the x in oxalá has the english sound sh [osha'la].
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Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 00:43
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they werent Arabs people they were Berbers....Ber-freaking -bers! and yes it was a fun time ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Artaxiad
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 18:11
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Ok, but didn't they speak Arabic? Wasn't it the equivalent of what is now known as an official language?
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Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 20:02
Yes, they spoke Arabic and they were muslim. The Al-Andalus was part of the Arab Empire, if I'm not seriously mistaken. ------------- An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur? |
Posted By: Tobodai
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 21:11
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at first yes, but then the Almoravids and where either Berber or Sahel i forget which and the Almohads were definately Berbers, I think....jeez I used to be the king of west african empires now I am having a brain fart... ------------- "the people are nothing but a great beast... I have learned to hold popular opinion of no value." -Alexander Hamilton |
Posted By: Sabzevarian
Date Posted: 09-Feb-2005 at 23:09
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How do you pronounce the j in ojala (guttural sound??). What is castellano? |
Posted By: Degredado
Date Posted: 10-Feb-2005 at 05:00
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The J in spanish is pronounced like an h. Methinks anyway. Castellano is basically what everyone calls Spanish (though deep in my heart I know that the Spanish language does not really exist. It's a Castillian conspiracy! For a short period of time, the Iberian Peninsula was part of the Arab empire. Then came the Abbasids, and that Ummayad guy took refuge in Cordoba. And then Iberia was an independant caliphate, and then the slavs and the berbers wrecked the caliphate, and then came the taifas, followed by the Almoravids (very african empire, though I'm not sure of the ethnicity of the Almoravids themselves), followed by the Almohads, followed by the taifas...down to Grenada. The moorish period of the Iberian peninsula certainly is interesting, though I don't think it was exactly like the middle east as Azimuth said, though there were similarities. It wasn't just arts and crafts though (curiously enough, andalusian arts flourished during the taifa period). Moorish Iberia was turbulent. At times, it was not a nice place to live in. I must admit something though. Everytime I read arab rhetoric on how peaceful and golden Al-Andalus was, ignoring the uprisings, the Almoravids and the Almohads, I feel like I want to puke. ------------- Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas |
Posted By: Benceno
Date Posted: 10-Feb-2005 at 18:59
The j is pronounced like Ho! or the H in Omaha. Castellano is, as Degregado said, what people use to call Spanish. It is/was the dominating language in Castille, and since when Spain was formed Castille was the dominating kingdom, Castilian become the official language (though Galician(Gallego), Basque(Vasco), Catalan(Catalán)) are widely spoken in their regions. Most of them could be taken for Castilian dialects (though they are quite different), but basque is a very rare language (and very interesting, you might like to look for more information). ------------- Hola. |
Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 10-Feb-2005 at 20:09
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None of them is a castillan dialect. They are all different languages, and all latin ones (except for Basque, of course).
Galician is more close to Portuguese and Catalan has some influence from French.
Basque is of unknown origin. Some say celt, others that it is an iberian language, thus prior to the Latin advent. Basque is a favourite object of study for many linguists because of that. ------------- An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur? |
Posted By: Degredado
Date Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 03:58
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Infidel, did you know that according to Livermore, Portugal could have become an islamic nation under the rule of a man named Mahmud? Apparently, around the 840's, this Mahmud character took advantage of an uprising to gain some power for himself. A place called Mafamedes near Porto is supposedly named after this character. ------------- Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas |
Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 11:45
Nope, didn't know that. Interesting....hmmm, Mahmud Al-Whatever instead of D. Afonso Henriques! ------------- An nescite quantilla sapientia mundus regatur? |
Posted By: Sabzevarian
Date Posted: 14-Feb-2005 at 15:12
| Mahmud Henriques |
Posted By: Degredado
Date Posted: 24-Feb-2005 at 05:35
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Actually, Mahmud Ibn Cabd al-Djabbar. God I've been wanting to answer that for days now! ------------- Vou votar nas putas. Estou farto de votar nos filhos delas |
Posted By: Infidel
Date Posted: 03-Mar-2005 at 12:46
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Posted By: azimuth
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 00:45
how do you pronounce that? i guess it is mahmod ibn abd al-jabbar
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Posted By: Sabzevarian
Date Posted: 04-Mar-2005 at 18:43
| Well I went off the situation in the balkans and other regions, where it's Arabic or Muslim first name and regional or cultural last name. |