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Hezbollah's defeat of Israel uncovered

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Vivek Sharma View Drop Down
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hezbollah's defeat of Israel uncovered
    Posted: 28-Nov-2006 at 21:14
All said & done, can we draw the following conclusions then:

Primary conclusion = Hizbolla is the most powerfull fighting system in the world. It has routed all its opponents including the western world.

Implications / derived conclusions :

1. the arabs & the muslims world does not want an independent pelestine Or the victory of Hizbollah.

2. It sheds empty glycerine tears on the plights of these terrorists.

3. they in their heart want  Hizbollah to be defeated but are so terrified of the Hizbollah (which is the most efficient & deadly, lethal  fighting machine  in the world) so that Hizbolla doesnt rule them.

4. For the above reason all muslim countries except the creators of hizbolla support the enemeies of Hizbolla.

5. izbolla is definitley infinitely more powerfull thatn israel, US & the whole of the Wester world taken together, but it is  the support of the muslim nations that keeps israel in existence.
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  Quote Worldhistory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2006 at 21:41
Originally posted by Timotheus

It's quite obvious that the Muslims cant drive the Jews out and the Jews can't drive the Muslims out without severe pain on either side. Neither will either leave voluntarily.
 
Muslims and Jews are one and the same and neither of them originate from that region.
 
It's just a scam to parasite off Europeans and European technology.
 
Many Arabs, let them be Jews or Muslims, have been able to migrate to Western nations on the "lets feel sorry for them factor" they constantly create with these fake battles.
 
Tens of thousands of Lebanese Arabs migrated into Australia based on such fake ME battles.
 
It's just a scam.
 
 
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-Nov-2006 at 22:39
True to some extent only.
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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 02:56
Originally posted by Worldhistory

Originally posted by Timotheus

It's quite obvious that the Muslims cant drive the Jews out and the Jews can't drive the Muslims out without severe pain on either side. Neither will either leave voluntarily.
 
Muslims and Jews are one and the same and neither of them originate from that region.

They're not quite the same. They're divided by light years of religious and ethnic division and a lot of blood shed. Jews originated in Egypt byt today's Arab populations of the area could very well be related to the original Semitic peoples who inhabited the region (Canaanites, Phoenicians etc). Islam changed the religion, not the bloodlines.
 
It's just a scam to parasite off Europeans and European technology.

Actually the technology being "parasited off" is the US one, not as much the European. And it's being siphoned off by Israel mostly.
 
Many Arabs, let them be Jews or Muslims, have been able to migrate to Western nations on the "lets feel sorry for them factor" they constantly create with these fake battles.

They're not fake battles. People don't die in  fake battles.
 
Tens of thousands of Lebanese Arabs migrated into Australia based on such fake ME battles.

Do you have a problem with Lebanese immigrants in your country?
 
It's just a scam.

By whom and for whom?
 
 
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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 03:11
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

True to some extent only.



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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 15:55
Originally posted by rock strongo

...


What an amusing and typically brainless repsonse! Goodbye strongo.

The forum's average IQ has just just shot up, though it is still somewhat below what we were used to.
    

Edited by Zagros - 29-Nov-2006 at 16:04
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 16:16
Originally posted by Worldhistory

Originally posted by Timotheus

It's quite obvious that the Muslims cant drive the Jews out and the Jews can't drive the Muslims out without severe pain on either side. Neither will either leave voluntarily.


Muslims and Jews are one and the same and neither of them originate from that region.


It's just a scam to parasite off Europeans and European technology.


Many Arabs, let them be Jews or Muslims,have been able to migrate to Western nations on the "lets feel sorry for them factor" they constantly create with these fake battles.


Tens of thousands of Lebanese Arabs migrated into Australia based on such fake ME battles.


It's just a scam.




I think your nonsense is more suited to a place such as Stormfling, or whatever it's called. Or you can put up your conspiracy theories for discussion in a relevant sub-forum.

I am sure some of our distinguished members would love to lock horns with you on those wild claims.
    
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  Quote konstantinius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 20:25
I, an undistinguished one, am polishing the tips (of the horns) and I'm not even Arabic. It's OK, it'll be the second thrashing after the nonsense on the "Arabs and Spanish" threadWink.

Edited by konstantinius - 29-Nov-2006 at 20:27
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 20:29
Originally posted by rock strongo

So what if Hezbollah won?  It changes absolutely nothing.  The state of Israel still exists, and Palestinians still don't have a homeland and never, ever, ever, ever will.
 
During the latest round, neither side's objectives were to maintain or destroy the states of Israel or Palestine like you suggest.
 
The objectives of each side were different:
 
IDF had 2 objectives:
- get back the 2 captured IDF solders.
- disarm Hezbollah.
 
Hezbollah had 1 objective:
- prevent IDF from achieving their 2 objectives.
 
IDF failed both their objectives and Hezbollah achieved theirs.
 
 
Originally posted by rock strongo

Hezbollah dug in nicely over a period of years and was able to withstand Israel.
 
Valid.
 
 
Originally posted by rock strongo

Here's a quote, "The "target stretching" escalated throughout the conflict; frustrated by their inability to identify and destroy major Hezbollah military assets, the IAF began targeting schools, community centers and mosques under the belief that their inability to identify and interdict Hezbollah bunkers signaled Hezbollah's willingness to hide their major assets inside civilian centers."
 
I sure want those Hezbollah guys protecting me and my family. Their best interests would mesh nicely with mine.
 
Firstly, Hezbollah and those families are the same people.  Hezbollah ARE those families, and those families ARE Hezbollah.  Hezbollah is a people's resistance movement against a decades old occupation (an occupation ruled illegal by the U.N. decades ago).
 
Secondly, about the usage of civilian infrastructure by Hezbollah; it's quite possible that Hezbollah did this, but that doesn't change the fact that IDF is a state military governed by certain rules of engagement based on international laws & accords about war crimes.  Such laws/rules prohibit the systematic shelling, bombing, and leveling of entire densely populated residential neighborhoods.
 
 
Originally posted by rock strongo

I guess its an honor to get killed in such a manner to be a statistic and photo op for faith though..My son was martyred, enjoy your virgins son, gosh willing I'll be there soon too if I can just become an innocent bystander...
 
Whatever.
 
 
Originally posted by rock strongo

My comdedy routine aside, the article points out the Israel gets US leftovers.  Do you really think that Israel would lose a war with the US "A" game weapons?
 
Result would've been the same.
 
 
Originally posted by rock strongo

Israel would nuke its neighbors anyway to spite its face if it has to. 
 
To save its physical existence it might do that, but to save "face"?  You must be kidding.
 
 
Originally posted by rock strongo

I like how you've pointed out what amounts to a meaningless conflict in the global scheme of things.  The US could take out the entire rathole of the middle east if they felt like it.  Believe it!  Its only one stupid terrorist action away from happening and then all those yahoos will be martyrs leaving the world of the living to more rational peoples.
 
Whatever.
 
 
Originally posted by rock strongo

Iran, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon are worth absolutely nothing to the world past the availability of their oil reserves.
 
Those countries are treasures of human culture.
 
 
Originally posted by rock strongo

What's going to happen when another power besides fossil fuels runs the US and Europe?  Do you think the Chinese and the Russians will be as kind to the Middle East as the horrible Americans?  Surely not..
 
What would happen is that foreigners would finally stop meddling in their affairs.
 


Edited by Hellios - 29-Nov-2006 at 20:33
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 20:42
 all boils down to one simple conclusion. If the hizbolla was as powerfull a terrorist organization as it is being made out to be that it has defeated, routed, destroyed, humiliated one of the most powerfull military machines of the world, why don't they take it further and achieve all their goals. Surely they are the most deadly fighters , best trained, best motivated, have best strategies, best tactics............

What prevents these superhuman heroes from completing their heroic victory ?

Or is it that they in reality do not want the problem to be solved, lest the solution finishes off the only plausible reason fpor their existence ?
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 21:02
Originally posted by Worldhistory

Timotheus wrote: It's quite obvious that the Muslims cant drive the Jews out and the Jews can't drive the Muslims out without severe pain on either side. Neither will either leave voluntarily.
 
Worldhistory wrote: Muslims and Jews are one and the same and neither of them originate from that region.
 
Your "Muslims and Jews are one and the same" comment can & should be interpreted positively, and in that sense I agree with you.  It can also be argued however, because it's not entirely accurate.
 
 
Originally posted by Worldhistory

It's just a scam to parasite off Europeans and European technology.
 
Wrong.
 
 
Originally posted by Worldhistory

Many Arabs, let them be Jews or Muslims, have been able to migrate to Western nations on the "lets feel sorry for them factor" they constantly create with these fake battles. Tens of thousands of Lebanese Arabs migrated into Australia based on such fake ME battles. It's just a scam.
 
Now, you're going off into the separate issue of how & why some refugees exaggerate claims because they feel it will increase their chances of entry.  Anti-immigrationism is indeed contagious.
 
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 21:21
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

all boils down to one simple conclusion. If the hizbolla was as powerfull a terrorist organization as it is being made out to be that it has defeated, routed, destroyed, humiliated one of the most powerfull military machines of the world, why don't they take it further and achieve all their goals. Surely they are the most deadly fighters, best trained, best motivated, have best strategies, best tactics............What prevents these superhuman heroes from completing their heroic victory?
 
I don't believe Hezbollah think they can do that.  I believe Hezbollah understand that they cannot destroy Israel, instead, they can only fight them in a defensive/guerilla style setting on their own land.
 
 
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

Or is it that they in reality do not want the problem to be solved, lest the solution finishes off the only plausible reason for their existence?
 
It' hard to agree with you that Hezbollah would not want Israel to release the thousands of Lebanese political prisoners that were detained during decades of illegal occupation and still remain illegally held today in Israeli military prisons.  Equally hard to agree that Hezbollah would not want Israel to complete it's withdrawl from all illegally occupied Lebanese land.
 
Now, as for Hezbollah using the conflict to justify their existence, it's a logical assumption also.
 
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 21:54
My post was not against the Hizbolla, It was targetted at those people with no knowledge of counter terrorism  who seem to make out that Hizbolla are the braves, deadliest etc....etc.... fighters & they will rout the wester forces.

What happened in this case was just a tactical miscalculation by Israel, which if it wants it can correct in no time & none of the so called supporters of Hizbolla will have the guts to rise against Israel. It's a bad statement to make & looks even worse to read, but is it not the truth ? How of many of these sympathizers had the guts to rise against the western combine when the mercilessly butchered more than half a million armed to the teeth professional fightors of Iraq ?





 
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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 22:27
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

My post was not against the Hizbolla, It was targetted at those people with no knowledge of counter terrorism who seem to make out that Hizbolla are the braves, deadliest etc....etc.... fighters & they will rout the wester forces.
 
Thinking Hezbollah issue can be solved through so called anti-terrorist tactics might be a mistake.
 
 
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

What happened in this case was just a tactical miscalculation by Israel, which if it wants it can correct in no time & none of the so called supporters of Hizbolla will have the guts to rise against Israel.
 
The tactical miscalculation you're talking about is that they underestimated Hezbollah's ability to resist them, and yes, that has been corrected already; now, IDF is more aware of Hezbollah's ability to resist.
 
 
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

It's a bad statement to make & looks even worse to read, but is it not the truth?
 
See above.
 
 
Originally posted by Vivek Sharma

How of many of these sympathizers had the guts to rise against the western combine when the mercilessly butchered more than half a million armed to the teeth professional fightors of Iraq?
 
Iraq?  I believe the Iraqi resistance is quite existent and I hear many top U.S. leaders beginning to say that a military solution will probably not get rid of it either.  I'm afraid you're mistaken in thinking that the "merciless butchery of more than half a million Iraqis" would diminish the Iraqi motivation to resist, when it only increased it.
 
 


Edited by Hellios - 29-Nov-2006 at 22:33
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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 23:28
Hellios, just a bit of correction the iraqi deaths I am talking about are not those of the resistance. their deaths number in thousands only. The one's I am talking about are the ones that occured during the invasion, when no body had the guts to resist the western forces.

The present resistance is entirely Iraqi, even today everybody cries hoarse about the west's actions in Iraq, but nobody has the guts to resist them. So also is be the case with Hizbolla. It is they who resist. Nobody has the guts to support them apart from shelling hollow tears for them.



Secondly the issue of anti terrorist tactics, such tactics can never succeed when any muslims terrorists are fighting against non muslims. I never said that they can succeed, because we see it here everyday.


The moot point was Hizbolla's co called much acclaimed victory over Israel, which the suupporters of Hizbolla call a victory of bravery etc.... while I maintained my point that it was just a small tactical confusion, after which Israel has again repeatedly bombarded Lebonan & killed many people.

It was more of a laid back reaction by Israel resulting from their underestimation or lack of inteligence of the levels of arming & planning of the Hizbolla, rather than any bravery or brilliance on their part.

Had it really been brilliance of the izbolla, why are they keeping quiet after that brilliant display of fighting when the Israleis resumed their offensive ?


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  Quote Hellios Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-Nov-2006 at 23:56

Dr. S. Radhakrishnan (1888-1975) was one of the most profound philosophers of this century, author and educationalist. Radhakrishnan was also a professor of Eastern Religions at Oxford and later became the second President of free India. He has observed:

The intolerance of narrow monotheism is written in letters of blood across the history of man from the time when first the tribes of Israel burst into the land of Canaan. The worshippers of the one Jealous God are egged on to aggressive wars against people of alien cults. They invoke Divine Sanction for the cruelties inflicted on the conquered. The spirit of old Israel is inherited by Christianity and Islam. 

He went on to remark: 

Wars of Religion which are the outcome of fanaticism that prompts and justifies the extermination of aliens of different creeds are practically unknown in Hindu India. 

(source: The Hindu View of Life - By S. Radhakrishnan  p. 40). For more on Dr. S. Radhakrishnan refer to chapter on Quotes.

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  Quote Vivek Sharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2006 at 01:03
He was perfectly right, so is your intention in selecting the material for the above post. Hats off to you.
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  Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2006 at 03:09
What a great man, but unfortunately the intolerance has spread to include polytheists too.

---

In Iraq, there was no organised resistance, all of the army disbanded (prior to the invasion most of IRaq's top brass had been bribed) and went home save for 10,000 or so republican guard who didn't have much will to fight either... It can be said that at first the deposing of Saddam was welcomed by the Iraqis... It is once they saw that their occupiers were only better than Saddam in name that major resistance started.


    

Edited by Zagros - 30-Nov-2006 at 03:11
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2006 at 16:27
Full conscription is the answer to all of America's military problems and it hasn't been used since WW2. 
An act of terrorism bad enough to bring that back will creat the manpower and the will necessary to beat any foes.
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  Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-Nov-2006 at 16:52

From Haaretz: Cry to those using babies by Naomi Ragen. (via At Level Ground)

"They [Hezbollah] are a lousy army. They only win when they hide behind baby carriages."

Please remember this when you hear about the "atrocity" of the Israeli bomb that killed many civilians in Kafr Qana, a place from which Hezbollah has fired hundreds of rockets at Israel. Unlike previous administrations, Mr. Olmert has my respect when he says: "They were warned to leave. It is the responsibility of Hezbollah for firing rockets amid civilians."

Terrorists and their supporters have lost the right to complain about civilian casualties, since all they have is one goal: this entire war is to target civilians. Every single one of the more than 2,500 rockets launched into Israel, is launched into populated towns filled with women and children. Just today, another explosive belt meant to kill civilians in Israel was detonated harmlessly by our forces in Nablus.

So don't cry to me about civilian casualties. Cry to those using babies and wives and mothers; cry to those who store weapons in mosques, ambulances, hospitals and private homes. Cry to those launching deadly rockets from the backyards of kindergartens and schools. Cry to the heartless men who love death, and however many of their troops or civilians die, consider themselves victorious as long as they can keep on firing rockets at our women and children.

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