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Topic: ignored India Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 01:22 |
ive noticed that out of all the countries, India seems to be ignored the most, even with its sheer size.
Ive heard Chinese complain that history can sometimes be bias against them, but India never gets mentioned.
So whats some interesting facts about India, what wars have you fought, what are some sterotypes that annoy you, what is important in Indian history. How has india influenced the world..
just curious
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Digvijay
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 01:32 |
Ozzy,
The claim to fame in India is that Indians/Hindus could
not be converted to Islam by the Islamic sword of the invaders as rest
of the middle east, Spain, Iran ,Iraq etc were. Note in 14th century
all of Spain was muslim and when christians reconquered it they
converted muslims back to christianity.
Here is how we did it:
http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Rajputs_and_Invasions_of_India
-Digs
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Omar al Hashim
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 04:23 |
Dear Ozzy,
The Indian subcontinent has one of the longest recorded
histories. It has more cultures and subcultures than one can
truely understand. India has had many great empires in the past 1000
years the biggest have been the Delhi Sultanate, the Mughal Empire, the
British Empire. With other important powerful states such as
Vijayanagar, and the Marathas.
At the height of the Mughal Empire (about 1660) its wealth, power and
spledor far exceed that which any European power could muster.
Indeed Churchill himself said: "The loss of India would reduce Britian to the fate of a minor power"
If you would like any further information, just ask.
EDIT:
I would also point out, that no muslim population in history has ever been converted to Islam by the sword.
Edited by Omar al Hashim - 01-Sep-2006 at 02:54
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Digvijay
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 05:24 |
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim
Dear Ozzy,
Digvijay is our resident hindu extremist. I suggest you take anything he says as largely false.
The Indian subcontinent has one of the longest recorded
histories. It has more cultures and subcultures than one can
truely understand. India has had many great empires in the past 1000
years the biggest have been the Delhi Sultanate, the Mughal Empire, the
British Empire. With other important powerful states such as
Vijayanagar, and the Marathas.
At the height of the Mughal Empire (about 1660) its wealth, power and
spledor far exceed that which any European power could muster.
Indeed Churchill himself said: "The loss of India would reduce Britian to the fate of a minor power"
If you would like any further information, just ask.
EDIT:
I would also point out, that no muslim population in history has ever been converted by the sword.
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Don't worry about Omar he is the resident Islamic terrorist.
Being a muslim the only history Omar is taking about is the one
recorded by Islamics. When the Hindu side is presented he screams
and says that scholars like Dr Dashrath Sharma, William Wilson Hunter,
Dr. Richard Saran, James Tod, Dr. L.S. Rathore, Dr. Andrew Bostom, V.A. Smith etc are all liars!
No wonder I keep reminding him of his Madarsa scholarship.
Also you might want to read the thread " Indian Influences in World History"
on how Islamics tried to destroy Indian civilization/art/architecture/Science/Literature etc.
And for the record no Hindu on this planet has been a terrorist,ever,
but muslims are terrorists all over the world. Do read the latest on
kashmiri terrorists from TIME magazine and how they were involved in
plotting the latest UK air terrorism:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1227651,00.html?cnn=yes
-Digs
Edited by Digvijay - 17-Aug-2006 at 05:28
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Vedam
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 06:20 |
India has definitely been ignored. Absolutely right.
It has given birth to 4 religions, hinduism (oldest in the world) Buddhism, Jainism, sikhism.
It has the longest epic in the world - Mahabharata.
It Hindu sacred scriptures the Vedas are the oldest continous vocal tradidition dating from 1500BC.
The Indians invented the Zero, and the Decimal sytem.
They invented Chess, snakes and ladders and Ludo.
Until 1700 all diamonds came only from India.
Hope this helps
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Vedam
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Ikki
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 10:33 |
Agree, India is absolutelly important, equal than Europe or China. Big problems:
1. The own indians, when time ago i began a history book about India i read: "the indians, contrary to the chinese, don't write their history with accuracy, according with their philosophical conception of the life, there weren't need the dates of numbers, time,..." So, we have a horrible lack of dates from the own India.
2. Secundary power since XVIII century until today, like China (but not in the XVIII century or until 1950) or in the own Europe Spain or Poland, to be few important in political affairs or to be culturally far from the three great historiographical powers (Great Britain, France and Germany), is a great problem.
Be careful, India was one of the most interesting countries for the europeans out of Europe, but was fascination more than trully scientific curiosity.
Edited by Ikki - 17-Aug-2006 at 10:35
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Digvijay
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 11:36 |
Ikki,
Originally posted by Ikki
Agree, India is absolutelly important, equal than Europe or China. Big problems:
1.
The own indians, when time ago i began a history book about India i
read: "the indians, contrary to the chinese, don't write their history
with accuracy, according with their philosophical conception of the
life, there weren't need the dates of numbers, time,..." So, we have a
horrible lack of dates from the own India.
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This is not true. Indians recorded there history very precisely but
unfortunately most of our libraries were burnt by Islamic invaders.
Basham's "Cultural History of India" says: (Following excerpt from
Page 193 of this book)
"The Turkish conquests of more then half India between 900 and 1300 A.D
were perhaps the most destructive in human history. As Muslims, the
conquerors aimed not only to destroy all other religions but also to
abolish the secular culture. Their burning of libraries explains the
large gaps in our knowledge of earlier literature......"
Arthur Llewellyn Basham (AL Basham) was a historian with the Australian National University in Canberra. His most popular book is The Wonder That was India.
He joined the ANU in 1965 as Professor of Oriental (later Asian) Civilizations and retired in 1979. He died in Calcutta in India in 1986. An annual public lecture series is given at the ANU in his memory.
During this period Indians were fighting to remain Hindu and not be
converted to Islam on the edge of the sword like it happened in Iran,
Iraq, Persia, Spain etc. Please read about it here:
http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Rajputs_and_Invasions_of_India
Originally posted by Ikki
2. Secundary power since XVIII century until today,
like China (but not in the XVIII century or until 1950) or in the own
Europe Spain or Poland, to be few important in political affairs or to
be culturally far from the three great historiographical powers (Great
Britain, France and Germany), is a great problem.
Be careful,
India was one of the most interesting countries for the europeans out
of Europe, but was fascination more than trully scientific curiosity.
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I do not understand what you are saying here. Please explain again.
-Digs
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Ikki
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 13:13 |
Originally posted by Digvijay
Ikki,
Originally posted by Ikki
Agree, India is absolutelly important, equal than Europe or China. Big problems:
1.
The own indians, when time ago i began a history book about India i
read: "the indians, contrary to the chinese, don't write their history
with accuracy, according with their philosophical conception of the
life, there weren't need the dates of numbers, time,..." So, we have a
horrible lack of dates from the own India.
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Yes but, the survival sources about ancient times for example (Asoka, Guptas), are very unaccurate about dates in comparation with greek sources about India for example. But, surely you are right my information is very few.
Originally posted by Ikki
2. Secundary power since XVIII century until today,
like China (but not in the XVIII century or until 1950) or in the own
Europe Spain or Poland, to be few important in political affairs or to
be culturally far from the three great historiographical powers (Great
Britain, France and Germany), is a great problem.
Be careful,
India was one of the most interesting countries for the europeans out
of Europe, but was fascination more than trully scientific curiosity.
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I do not understand what you are saying here. Please explain again.
-Digs
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Sorry, Why do you think that the chinese history is growing? Growing i say, more and more famous in the West: the actual economical and political rise of China Between 1800 and 1950, the chinese history wasn't anything in the West, the classical view was "China never changed", if the history of a country "never change" we have a problem of missinformation equally in the case of Byzantium. Japan, exactly the same question, and Russia the inverse, few time ago the russian history was very interesting, today anybody want know anything about russian history. Following the argument: at the moment that my country, Spain, lost a good position in the geopolitical game, the other countries lost curiosity about our history. Because the centre of the historiography was England, France and Germany, the history was explained always with the eyes of those countries and always their history was more important than the history of other countries, not only out of Europe countries, but european countries as Spain and Poland. If India want that her own history become a famous history, she need a good global political-economical position. My last point: India, that word is... magical, wonderful, the mind of many generations of westerness was enlighted with those five letters, trully fascination, but very few persons show a real scientific interest (with the exception of english during the empire)
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Temujin
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Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 14:34 |
Originally posted by Ikki
"the indians, contrary to the chinese, don't write their history with accuracy, |
this is the greatest joke, Chinese sources are least accurate writings of the world, no one is going to believe those huge numbers of soldiers on camapign and the lack of Chinese script & langauge to accurately display foreign names. and sicne the cultural revolution i'm not believing anything "new" (=recent history work) until Communism is removed from China. just look how much new info on Russian history has been revealed since after the fall of the Soviet Union.
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indiafinest.com
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Posted: 31-Aug-2006 at 09:11 |
Hello,
I must say you are correct upto very high extent, India is being ignored inspite of being 2nd largest in population, biggest democracy, A lot of knowledge/intellect based rise in later years and being a highly peaceful country in known history.
I appreciate you to initiate this topic because i guess you are not an indian, There are several major reasons i think as root cause of india being ignored. Majorly because of india's lead was in stupid hands when it gained independence, they tried to just immitate what west does and their initiatives of just getting like west were simply rubbish, We started losing our identity and gained a poor situation right because our whole governmental system was according to just single brains and not a complete set of mentors, just single people ruled at times and it slowly lead this condition of india.
Indians are very different then other nationals, They afford to tolerate much more then an other and it lead us right towards being coward, That s true. Because of this still india is deprived to iportant chairs in world organisations like UNO.
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Vivek Sharma
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Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 06:44 |
Some excerpts :
Q. Who is the GM of
Hewlett Packard (hp) ? A. Rajiv Gupta
Q. Who is the creator
of Pentium chip (needs no introduction as 90% of t! he today's computers run on
it)? A. Vinod Dahm
Q. Who is the third richest
man on the world? A. According to the latest
report on Fortune Magazine, it is Azim Premji, who is the CEO ofW ipro
Industries. The Sultan of Brunei is at 6 th position
now. Q. Who is the founder and
creator of Hotmail (Hotmail is world's No.1 web based email
program)? A. Sabeer
Bhatia Q. Who is the president of
AT & T-Bell Labs (AT & T-Bell Labs is the creator of program languages
such as C, C++, Unix to name a few)? A. Arun Netravalli
Q. Who is the new MTD
(Microsoft Testing Director) of Windows 2000, responsible to iron out all
initial problems? A. Sanjay Tejwrika
Q. Who are the Chief Executives of CitiBank,
Mckensey & Stanchart? A.V ictor Menezes, Rajat Gupta, and Rana
Talwar.
Q. We Indians are the wealthiest among all ethnic
groups in America, even faring better than the whites and the natives.
There are 3.22 millions of Indians in USA (1.5% of
population). YET,
38% of doctors in USA are
Indians. 12% scien! tists in USA are Indians. 36% of NASA
scientists are Indians. 34% of Microsoft employees are
Indians. 28% of IBM employees are Indians. 17% of INTEL scientists are Indians. 13% of XEROX employees are! Indians.
Some of the following facts may be known to you.
These facts were recently published in a German magazine, which deals with WORLD
HISTORY FACTS ABOUT INDIA. 1. India never invaded any country in her last
1000 years of history. 2. India invented the Number system. Zero was
invented by Aryabhatta. 3. The world's first University was
established in Takshila in 700BC. More than 10,500 students from all over the
world studied more than 60 subjects. The< st1:place w:st="on">University
of Nalanda built in the 4 th century BC was one of the greatest
achieveme! nts of ancient< st1:country-region w:st="on">India in the
field of education. 4. According to the Forbes magazine, Sanskrit is the
most suitable language for computer software.
5. Ayurveda ! is the earliest school of medicine known to
humans. 6. Although western media portray modern images of
India as poverty striken and underdeveloped through political corruption, India
was once the richest empire on earth.
7. The art of navigation was born
in the river Sindh 5000 years ago. The very word "Navigation" is de! rived from
the Sanskrit word NAVGATIH. 8. The value of pi was first calculated by
Budhayana, and he explained the concept of what is now k! nown as! the
Pythagorean Theorem. British scholars have last year (1999) officially published
that Budhayan's works dates to the 6 th Century which is long before
the European mathematicians.
9. Algebra, trigonometry
and calculus came from India. Quadratic equations were by Sridharacharya in the
11 ! th Century; the largest numbers the Greeks and the Romans used
were 10 6 whereas Indians used numbers as big as
1053. 10. According to the Gemmological
Institute of America, up until 1896, India was the only source of diamonds to
the world.
11. USA based IEEE has proved what
has been a century-old suspicion amongst a! cademics that the pioneer of
wireless communication was Pr! ofessor Jagdeesh Bose and not Marconi. 12.
The earliest reservoir and dam for irrigation was built in Saurashtra. 13.
Chess was invented in India.
14. Sushruta is the father
of surgery. 2600 years ago he and health scientists of his time conducted
surgeri! es like cesareans, cataract, fractures and urinary stones. Usage of
anaesthesia was well known in ancient India. 15. When many cultures in the
world were only nomadic forest dwellers over 5000y ears ago, Indians established
Harappan culture in Sindhu Valley (Indus Valley Civilisation). 16. The
place value system, the decimal system was developed in India in 100 BC.
Quotes about India. We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count,
without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made.
Albert Einstein.
India is
the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of
history, the grandmother of legend and the great grand mother of tradition.<
/SPAN> Mark Twain.
If there is one place
on the face of earth where all dreams of living men havef ound a home from the
very earliest days when man began the dream of existence, it is India.
French scholar Romain Rolland.
India
conquered! and dominated China culturally for 20 centuries without ever having
to send a single soldier across her border. Hu Shih (former Chinese ambassador to USA)
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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Vivek Sharma
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Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 06:47 |
Further, India was the country which supported the Zorastrians after they escaped persecution & forced conversions to islam in Iran. It also supported the Jews For more than 2000 years & even created a separate caste for them. (which is unprecedented in the Indian history - creating a new caste)
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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Anujkhamar
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Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 09:12 |
As much as I am going to hate doing this here we go:
Originally posted by vivek sharma
1. India never invaded any country in her last
1000 years of history.
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Heard of the Chola's? Under Maharaja Rajaraja and his father Rajendra they conquered Sri Lanka, the Maldives and huge parts of SE Asia
As for the Sanskrit part, thats just not right.
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maqsad
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Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 10:21 |
Originally posted by Anujkhamar
As much as I am going to hate doing this here we go:
Originally posted by vivek sharma
1. India never invaded any country in her last
1000 years of history.
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Heard of the Chola's? Under Maharaja Rajaraja and his father Rajendra they conquered Sri Lanka, the Maldives and huge parts of SE Asia
As for the Sanskrit part, thats just not right.
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What the..... Heard of BANGLADESH(east pakistan)? Heard of HYDRABAD? Heard of KASHMIR? This is just the last 60 years and off the top of my head.
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Anujkhamar
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Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 10:26 |
I'll give you Bangladesh too. Can't say Hyderabad was much of an invasion, Goa was more of an invasion than Hyderabad.
Kashmir can't be an invasion as troops were invited in. They havn't left yet, but then again, neither has Pakistan's troops either.
I guess it would be more accurate to say "Indian (subcontinent) states have not conquered outside of the subcontinant for 1000 years" but this itself is wrong because of the Cholas.
Edited by Anujkhamar - 01-Sep-2006 at 10:28
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jayeshks
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Posted: 01-Sep-2006 at 10:30 |
let's pretend someone didn't just post a spammy email circular a couple of posts ago :o
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Once you relinquish your freedom for the sake of "understood necessity,"...you cede your claim to the truth. - Heda Margolius Kovaly
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Vivek Sharma
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Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 01:10 |
Bangladesh was not an invasion. The Indian troops were invited by the democratically elected government of pakistan, which ws refused their rightfull dues to liberate east pakistan from the tyranny of west pakistani military (Has'nt somebody heard of the slaughter of 3 million bangladeshi muslims by the west paki military) & Indian forces rightfully handed over the government of east pakistan to the democratically government & left after routing the pakistani military. The never occupied in bangladesh, although they could have. They declared an open war to liberate bangladesh & did not resort to terrorism as some countries are doing in kashmir.
Hyderabad & Goa were cases where the indian police (not the army) had to step in when the attroicities on the freedom fighters brcame unbearable. In Junagadh, the nawab himself abdicated the throne in the face of a people's uprising.
In Kashmir, the Indian army was invited by the King of kashmir after an instrument of accession was signed.
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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BigL
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Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 02:46 |
Well i think the Ancient Civilzations of the indian continent have been especially ignored like the Harrapan.
Although the Culturall influence of india is massive with buddhism spreading to the world.The ancient indian philosphers are So near to modern science it makes the greeks look like School children.
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Anujkhamar
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Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 06:10 |
I agree with what you say about Bangladesh, we were invited. But it doesn't change the instrument of Bangladeshi independence which is the invasion of Indian troops. Goa and Hyderabad were only known as "police action". For Goa I doubt the police were involved but the army was very much involved. They had every right to be involved, we still had a European power on our subcontinant. The invasion of Goa was called Operation Vijay (the same name is also given to a operation in Kashmir). Here is a link on it: http://www.allempires.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13563
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Vivek Sharma
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Posted: 02-Sep-2006 at 06:24 |
You are right. Neither any Police nor military action was much involved in Goa. the Portuguese gave up too easily. Probably they had decided to quit. Indian policy was to leave the French & Portuguese alone. If India had wanted a Military action, they could have done it in 47 itself. But they didnt want the status quo to be disturbed. The feeling bieng that gradually the colonists would themselves leave as the local liberation movements gathered momentum, which is what happened. The little police action was minimal just a token mobilisation sort off. The CRPF (central reserve police force) led the operation helped by Maharashtra & karnataka armed state police battalions. No military was involved.
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PATTON NAGAR, Brains win over Brawn
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