Author |
Share Topic Topic Search Topic Options
|
YusakuJon3
Shogun
Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 223
|
Quote Reply
Topic: Indian Influences in World History Posted: 10-Jul-2006 at 19:50 |
I've been reading John Keay's India: A History and have gone
through some passages where it mentions the origins of Buddhism and its
eventual spread across the Far East, and of the influence that Indian
culture had on regions of Southeast Asia and Indonesia. I'm
curious as to when and how this influence began to wane, as it seems
that India was well positioned to maintain its contacts with the trade
routes across the Indian Ocean. It seems that the decline in
Indian dominance of the trade routes corresponds to the Muslim
invasions and the arrival of the European powers. At the same
time, India has a history of regional (though not cultural)
factionalism that contributed somewhat to its inability to project its
influence.
Keay mentions Indic kingdoms in SE Asia (including the Khmer of Angkor-Wat
fame) and Indonesia (of which one seems to have put up a minor maritime
empire). Yet these are now overshadowed by the modern Islamic and
Indo-Chinese cultures. Have the Indian influences managed to
sustain themselves, or is it all gone now?
|
"There you go again!"
-- President Ronald W. Reagan (directed towards reporters at a White House press conference, mid-1980s)
|
|
Omar al Hashim
King
Suspended
Joined: 05-Jan-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 5697
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 11-Jul-2006 at 09:18 |
Who says they're gone at all? I really don't think that they are.
"The loss of India would reduce Britian to the fate of a minor power" - Winston Churchill
EDIT: btw, there is no such thing as a Islamic culture
Edited by Omar al Hashim - 11-Jul-2006 at 09:19
|
|
Digvijay
Pretorian
Joined: 08-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 194
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 13-Jul-2006 at 16:20 |
Originally posted by YusakuJon3
I've been reading John Keay's India: A History and have gone
through some passages where it mentions the origins of Buddhism and its
eventual spread across the Far East, and of the influence that Indian
culture had on regions of Southeast Asia and Indonesia. I'm
curious as to when and how this influence began to wane, as it seems
that India was well positioned to maintain its contacts with the trade
routes across the Indian Ocean. It seems that the decline in
Indian dominance of the trade routes corresponds to the Muslim
invasions and the arrival of the European powers. At the same
time, India has a history of regional (though not cultural)
factionalism that contributed somewhat to its inability to project its
influence.
Keay mentions Indic kingdoms in SE Asia (including the Khmer of Angkor-Wat
fame) and Indonesia (of which one seems to have put up a minor maritime
empire). Yet these are now overshadowed by the modern Islamic and
Indo-Chinese cultures. Have the Indian influences managed to
sustain themselves, or is it all gone now?
|
YusakuJon,
Keay is right on the money in saying that the influence of India
did reduce because of invasions by muslims. Reasons are manifold:
a) Muslims burnt any books they could find in India after the
invasions. India had two major universities at Nalanda (Modern
Bihar) and Taxila (Modern Pakistan). They both had extensive libraries
which were burnt by Muslim invaders.
b) Architecture and building science of India was almost destroyed by the invaders.
c) Research in Mathematics, Philosophy, astronomy etc came to a
grinding halt. Prior to Islamic invasions India produced great
mathematicians, astronomers etc such as Brahmgupta, Bhaskara, Panini
... India did give the world the decimal number system, algebra (both
of which are wrongly attributed to Arabs). This research was all prior
to arrival of Islam in India.
Lastly Indian population was basically fighting to not get converted to
the religion of Islam as Muslims tried to do in every land they went
in. So the thousand years, from 700 A.D to about 1800 A.D, in India
were the most bloody in the annals of world history.
In his Annals and Antiquities of Rajasthan James Tod captures this fact quite well:
- "What nation on earth could have maintained the semblance of
civilization, the spirit or the customs of their forefathers, during so
many centuries of overwhelming depression, but one of such singular
character as the Rajpoot? . . . Rajasthan exhibits the sole example in
the history of mankind, of a people withstanding every outrage
barbarity could inflict, or human nature sustain, from a foe (Muslims) whose
religion commands annihilation; and bent to the earth, yet rising
buoyant from the pressure, and making calamity a whetstone to courage.
. . . Not an iota of their religion or customs have they lost. . . ".
Also if you get a chance do read the following link which
explains how Indians fought the islamic invaders in India for a
thousand years and there bravery allowed India to remain a Hindu state
unlike Iran/Iraq etc which became majority muslim state within a few
decades.
http://hindurajput.blogspot.com/#Rajputs_and_Invasions_of_India
-Digs
|
|
YusakuJon3
Shogun
Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 223
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 14-Jul-2006 at 07:07 |
I'm just now getting to the point in Keay's book where Islam is about
to make its great push, just after the decline of the famous dynasty of
the Cholas. It seems that India around this time is a jumble of
rival kingdoms who, like the Europeans after the fall of Rome, were more
often at war with one another than not, in spite of having common
cultural and religious ties. Such was the case in the Punjab when
the Ghaznis came barreling through the passes of the Hindu Kush.
At the point in Keay's book that I'm reading now, the Rajputs of whom
you're speaking have just made their appearance and are basically the
vanguard against the subsequent Islamic Incursion which followed in the
wake of the rise of Seljuk Iran. Given the slaughter and pillage
which resulted, I'd have to belatedly commend the Rajputs on their
spirit of resistance. However, pillage and rapine seems not to
have been unique to Muslim holy warriors, as the reported actions of
the Chola invaders in Sri Lanka had demonstrated.
It was those same Chola dynasts who show hints of a rare instance where
Indian kingdoms showed an inclination towards projecting their power in
a manner similar to that which the European powers were more so often
doing.
Edited by YusakuJon3 - 14-Jul-2006 at 07:09
|
"There you go again!"
-- President Ronald W. Reagan (directed towards reporters at a White House press conference, mid-1980s)
|
|
Digvijay
Pretorian
Joined: 08-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 194
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 07:45 |
Can you expand a bit on the Chola and Sri Lanka statment?
Thanks,
-Digs
|
|
YusakuJon3
Shogun
Joined: 04-Aug-2004
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 223
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 15-Jul-2006 at 21:16 |
Originally posted by Digvijay
Can you expand a bit on the Chola and Sri Lanka statment?
|
According to Keay's book, inscriptions and chronicles surviving
from the era (10th and 11th Centuries CE) point to no less than two
invasions of Sri Lanka by the Cholas. The first under King
Rajaraja I and the second under his successor Rajendra I. Sri
Lanka was apparently rather brutally pillaged, as they compared the
Cholas to some sort of vampiric creature. In many ways, you could
compare it to the way in which the Crusaders from Western Europe would
later pillage and occupy Constantinople en route to the Holy Land; the
actions of the Cholas had that kind of feel to them.
|
"There you go again!"
-- President Ronald W. Reagan (directed towards reporters at a White House press conference, mid-1980s)
|
|
Digvijay
Pretorian
Joined: 08-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 194
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 06-Aug-2006 at 07:18 |
Originally posted by YusakuJon3
Originally posted by Digvijay
Can you expand a bit on the Chola and Sri Lanka statment?
| According to Keay's book, inscriptions and chronicles surviving
from the era (10th and 11th Centuries CE) point to no less than two
invasions of Sri Lanka by the Cholas. The first under King
Rajaraja I and the second under his successor Rajendra I. Sri
Lanka was apparently rather brutally pillaged, as they compared the
Cholas to some sort of vampiric creature. In many ways, you could
compare it to the way in which the Crusaders from Western Europe would
later pillage and occupy Constantinople en route to the Holy Land; the
actions of the Cholas had that kind of feel to them.
|
Yusaku,
Did you finish the book? I would recommend you read James Tod's "Annals and antiquities of Rajasthan" also.
-Digs
|
|
Digvijay
Pretorian
Joined: 08-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 194
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 08-Aug-2006 at 15:15 |
Originally posted by YusakuJon3
I've been reading John Keay's India: A History and have gone
through some passages where it mentions the origins of Buddhism and its
eventual spread across the Far East, and of the influence that Indian
culture had on regions of Southeast Asia and Indonesia. I'm
curious as to when and how this influence began to wane, as it seems
that India was well positioned to maintain its contacts with the trade
routes across the Indian Ocean. It seems that the decline in
Indian dominance of the trade routes corresponds to the Muslim
invasions and the arrival of the European powers. At the same
time, India has a history of regional (though not cultural)
factionalism that contributed somewhat to its inability to project its
influence.
Keay mentions Indic kingdoms in SE Asia (including the Khmer of Angkor-Wat
fame) and Indonesia (of which one seems to have put up a minor maritime
empire). Yet these are now overshadowed by the modern Islamic and
Indo-Chinese cultures. Have the Indian influences managed to
sustain themselves, or is it all gone now?
|
YusakuJon,
Interestingly, Basham's "Cultural History of India" reaches the same
conclusion about Islam's influence on India: (Following excerpt from
Page 193 of this book)
"The Turkish conquests of more then half India between 900 and 1300 A.D
were perhaps the most destructive in human history. As Muslims, the
conquerors aimed not only to destroy all other religions but also to
abolish the secular culture. Their burning of libraries explains the
large gaps in our knowledge of earlier literature......"
Arthur Llewellyn Basham (AL Basham) was a historian with the Australian National University in Canberra. His most popular book is The Wonder That was India.
He joined the ANU in 1965 as Professor of Oriental (later Asian) Civilizations and retired in 1979. He died in Calcutta in India in 1986. An annual public lecture series is given at the ANU in his memory.
Edited by Digvijay - 17-Aug-2006 at 05:20
|
|
Digvijay
Pretorian
Joined: 08-Jul-2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 194
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 17-Aug-2006 at 05:22 |
Originally posted by Digvijay
[QUOTE=YusakuJon3]I've been reading John Keay's India: A History and have gone
through some passages where it mentions the origins of Buddhism and its
eventual spread across the Far East, and of the influence that Indian
culture had on regions of Southeast Asia and Indonesia. I'm
curious as to when and how this influence began to wane, as it seems
that India was well positioned to maintain its contacts with the trade
routes across the Indian Ocean. It seems that the decline in
Indian dominance of the trade routes corresponds to the Muslim
invasions and the arrival of the European powers. At the same
time, India has a history of regional (though not cultural)
factionalism that contributed somewhat to its inability to project its
influence.
Keay mentions Indic kingdoms in SE Asia (including the Khmer of Angkor-Wat
fame) and Indonesia (of which one seems to have put up a minor maritime
empire). Yet these are now overshadowed by the modern Islamic and
Indo-Chinese cultures. Have the Indian influences managed to
sustain themselves, or is it all gone now?
|
Yusaku ,
Are you around?
-Digs
|
|
mondweep
Immortal Guard
Joined: 20-Aug-2006
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0
|
Quote Reply
Posted: 20-Aug-2006 at 16:52 |
Guys,
This is my first post to the group. I have read through some of the old threads. There is a lot of healthy discussion and debate and most commendable is that there is no personal attack as is there in many other groups. I am impressed with it and would definitely participate in the discussions here.
Cheers!
|
-Mondweep
|
|